He's literally married to a mixed race woman yet you want to continue using something from 15 years ago to judge him. Lick those royal boots.
I don't think he didn't know it was a bad thing to do, but can you imagine the circles he was mixing in back then? Very easy to see that your sense of decency would be skewed when your social circle is Nth generation extremely upper class. Not an excuse, but maybe a bit of reasoning?
again I am not dismissing anything. I see this as a blackface situation. I don’t think this should be used to form a total picture of his character. But, I also think that saying “oh he was young” “oh he was raised by racist” and “oh he went through trauma “ isn’t right. I don’t think qualifiers should be used to explain away that picture. It was fucking vile and stupid full stop no “but” should be used.
1. It was fucked up. 2. He was 20. 3. It was 15 years ago. All of that is true. 2 and 3 aren't dismissing it, it's just adding context. A lot of people do dumb shit at 20 and grow up eventually. Doesn't make it any less vile, just adds context. Bringing something up from 15 years ago to somehow dismiss what happened to them now is gross.
he did a vile racist thing. He knew it was vile and racist. We can judge the single act without making it an indictment on him. We can judge the act without making that an excuse for what they went through recently. I just have an issue with what seems like rationalizing the act.
What does marrying a mixed race woman have to do with ant-Semitism? Literally. Id say you are the boot licker here.
If you have read DBL's posts over the years, there is an explanation as to why he keeps bringing up this nonsensical argument.
LMAO. OK, "recognizing that the guy accusing his family of blatant racism has been, in fact, a blatant anti-Semite." Better? Lick those Harry boots.
I don't think so, but we don't know enough of the context of that question to determine the appropriate level of outrage, imo. Could it possibly be innocent to wonder about a baby's skin tone when you're imagining a new little baby (and I don't mean for judgement purposes, but rather for picturing things in your mind, maybe in the same way you'd wonder about its hair colour?). Is it an inappropriate conversation to have with the parents? Absolutely. Racist? Maybe, but maybe not. That said, I've seen enough blatantly racist things over the last few weeks to understand why people wouldn't want to give others the benefit of the doubt.
I think in this context you can assume it was racist. But, you’re right in and of it self it might not be racist.
FTR, I don’t think Harry is racist. So this comment is not specifically related to the royals conversation, but: A former colleague of mine who is one of the few actual racists I’ve interacted with on a personal level — and what I mean by that is he was openly racist behind closed doors, but was very mindful not to say things in front of others — married a South American woman who is very dark (strong indigenous ancestry). To the point that he had fraternal twin boys and he consciously named the lighter-skinned one after him specifically because he was lighter. I don’t know how he personally justified making the exception for his wife and her family (well, they had money so there’s that) but he was racist as fuck.
That's basically what I said and got a dismissive "lol." I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that nazi garb is OK. I was just saying there's good reason to think that's probably just a dumb ass thing he did and not indicative of how he feels today.
I don’t think we are saying the same thing. I took your comment as he didn’t think it was wrong because of how he was raised so maybe don’t judge him as harshly. And that’s what I LOLed out loud about. My comment is that he knew it was wrong when did it so we can judge him. I don’t think either of us are saying he still feels that way.
On some level I get what you're going for here, but there's a pretty big difference between saying "this guy wore a swastika a while ago and thus I'm going to hold that against him as being racist and anti-Semitic 15 years later," and saying "that guy was arrested for drug possession three times in the last ten years so it's okay that the police shot and killed him."
Hopefully they eventually learn how ignorant and hurtful it is. I grew up around all of that so it took longer than it should have. Not something I'm proud of but I've learned from it. If someone wants to judge me off things I said 10-15 years ago, that's fine.
Two brief observations I'll make here: 1. William is probably full of shit, but nobody should be surprised that he's going to deny that either he or anyone else in the family is racist. Even racists know that racism is wrong on some level, or at the least not socially acceptable to admit to. AND 2. I'm now curious to hear from the same crowd who chastised me about not liking Markle with the criticism of, "But you don't have anything to go on other than your 'subjective' belief she's not being totally honest! You just have to take her at her word!!!!" Okay, well, now William has given his word. Are you just going to take that at face value, or will there be a double standard? FTR, I'm not taking either of their word as gospel.
But again, it's "subjective." Don't get me wrong, it's common sense. I'm on the boat that William's statement is totally self-serving. But, playing devil's advocate here, I'm not aware of anything William himself has ever personally done that would publicly suggest he's racist. (Ironically, it was actually Harry who pulled that stupid Nazi costume stunt). So if the standard to be applied is that we're not allowed to question anyone's motives, then whey are we only allowed to question William's? I'm firmly in the "everyone here is self-interested and telling a version of the story that suits their own interests" crowd.
You’re trying to compare and apply the same standards to situations that are not comparable. Correct me if I’m wrong, Meghan and Harry never came right out and called the family racist, right? Meghan and Harry told actual accounts of things that happened and shared what they went through as those events happened, it’s very difficult to prove or disprove whether or not those experiences are/were real. William just made a “we’re not racist” blanket denial, which racist tend to do when called out.
Semantics are your friend. I mean, you drop a statement like “they expressed concerns about the color of his skin” - you know exactly where that punch is going to land.
I think the larger context of the argument was the stance that Markle and Harry were treated poorly for no reason at all other than 100% because she’s biracial. Period. End. That was the claim. That’s the part that folks like myself took issue with. I don’t doubt the part of their story about there being racism in the family and that racism was at least a factor in the family’s attitude towards her. Count me as on board with that. However, I seriously doubt that it was the only factor or even the strongest factor in their decision to leave the royal family duties, or that it was the strongest motivating force of treating her differently. That was my main point. Does that excuse racism? Nope. Does that give license to the royal family to be racist? Nope. Should they have called out the racism? Yep. But then, are the royals additionally just terrible emotionally stunted people who cannibalize their own because of archaic formalities they live their lives by? Absolutely.
It’s not semantics, you know that, right? Yes, the story they told were going to paint the royals as racist, but that’s still providing specific events of racist behavior, to compare a blanket “I’m not racist” comment and give it the same value is ridiculous and it’s very telling of those who are doing so. Btw, I’m in no way saying that El Tiburon is doing that, I know he’s playing devil’s advocate here and trying to drive home a point likely directed at a different poster.
I understand what you’re saying, but I’m sorry, when racism is a factor it’s difficult to go beyond that factor for the person experiencing it.
We’re talking about people who believe that they’re superior to others (and entitled to have their lavish lifestyles funded by taxpayers) because of their blood. It would be shocking if they weren’t racist. If they aren’t, it’s because they believe everyone is equally inferior to them. Whether or not Markle exaggerated her own experience doesn’t really change any of that.
There is nothing specific about it. In fact, it was so vague, it could have been pinned on his dad or grandmother. Let's not act like every second of that interview wasn't practiced and scripted.
Except it was a specific event, we don’t know who said it, but we know the subject matter, right? But I bet if Harry said a name, he would be getting crushed for that. The royals have not come out and refuted anything that was said, they’re silence regarding the specific claims is very telling.