I can tell you never did the little experiment where you were supposed to put your hand around your neck in a "choke hold", but not choke yourself. Let's try something else - you put your hand around your neck and squeeze as hard as you can for 5 minutes.
well I'm completely lost then. Do you think I could put my arm around your neck in a "choke hold" without choking you or causing you pain? *I'm not asking - could I resist the urge? - I'm asking - is it possible?
No, it isn't possible for you to put me in a chokehold and restrict my movement to where I couldn't cause you harm without causing me pain.
oh, is that what I asked? This is where it got silly, when you said it was not possible to put someone in a hold and not choke them and cause pain. Now you are modifying that and adding - restrict movement to where I couldn't cause you harm. But ok, fine. Do you agree that there are varying levels of pressure I can apply? It's not all or nothing, so I might be able to apply, say 10% pressure, and keep you in my grasp but not hurt or choke you. Then, if needed, I could apply 50% pressure and start to choke you a little, and cause some pain, but nothing severe or immediately dangerous? And if I really needed (wanted) to, I could go to 100% and choke and hurt you. And to clarify, becasue I feel I need to, 10%, 50%, and 100% are not the only options here. All % from 1-100 are possible.
Jesus Christ, you're an idiot. This has been the discussion the entire conversation. You're the one who got off on some tangent that you could put your arm around your neck without hurting yourself. You're the one who made this conversation silly and absurd.
That's simply not the case. Let's review: I said I think it's a bad move to put people in painful situations, then tell them to stop moving or stop resisting, and that maybe it would be better to find a less, or non-painful way to apprehend someone. You said how would you do that without putting them in an uncomfortable situation? my response was I am not totally sure, but but it seems like 100% of the time you hurt someone they will want you to stop hurting them, and uncomfortable =/= painful. You could put someone in an uncomfortable situation without inflicting pain. you said I'm playing semantics I said no, for example, I could put you in a choke hold or hold your arms behind your back in a way that was uncomfortable, but not painful. This is where you took the short bus to crazy land: You cannot have your arms around someone's neck without causing pain. that forced a discussion of: can you have your arm around someone's neck "without causing pain"? The obvious answer to everyone but you is yes, but you can't accept that for some reason, and the resulting page and a half is simply going around in circles with you about this point. I agree that at one point we were talking about holding a suspect, restricting movement, etc., but as we got further along, you made blanket statements that didn't apply specifically to apprehending a suspect, restricting movement, etc., and simply said things like - You cannot have your arms around someone's neck without causing pain.
lol where did this happen? it really blows my mind if you are dumb enough to believe this is how the conversation went.
that doesn't even make any sense. Can we get back to bad police? Charges Dropped Against Cop Caught Having Sex With Cows http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/05/cow-cop/
Do you not know how to read for context? We were clearly talking about using a chokehold to restrain someone.
unrelated to that nonsense but I've always joked about drawing up a "Dumbass" charge to send up to the NC House/Senate in an attempt to reign in some of the just absolutely retarded shit that goes on while not technically being illegal. Left your car unlocked with a spare key in the glove box and it got stolen? Willfully and wantonly being a dumbass, enjoy your citation. Man I'd wear that shit out.
The Scottsdale police officer who killed six is now training cops when to shoot to kill http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...op-involved-in-six-justifiable-homicides.html http://downanddrought.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-scottsdale-police-officer-who.html TL;DR - Cop with 6 fatal shootings in 12 year career is now training police in a 'use of force' simulator. His last shooting was on a call about an allegedly armed man threatening to shoot his neighbors. Cop arrived and the man came out of his home with his grandson in his arms. Cop shot him when he thought he was reaching for a weapon but it turns out he was unarmed. Shooting was deemed justified but the City settled with the man's family for 4.25 million.
Family of Lakewood man killed by sheriff's deputies releases video of shooting In the chaotic last moments of John Berry's life, Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies attempted to pull him from his car and stunned him with a Taser as a woman screamed at them to stop. Then came the gunfire that sprayed the windshield of his BMW. Minutes later, the 31-year-old was pronounced dead at the scene — the curb just outside his Lakewood home. The July 6 encounter was captured on a shaky, three-minute cellphone video that attorneys for Berry's family said Monday is key evidence in a claim they filed against the county and the Sheriff's Department for negligence, assault and battery and violation of civil rights. At the time of the shooting, the agency said Berry had rammed his black BMW into a patrol car and trapped a deputy between the two vehicles. “Fearing for the deputy’s life, the assisting deputies fired at the suspect,” read a statement released shortly afterward. But Berry’s family believes that the incident was prompted after a deputy fell down beside the cars. “One of the officers, while apparently trying to get out of the way, slipped or tripped and fell briefly on the ground before getting up," the claim reads. "Shortly after Johnny’s vehicle began to move backwards, one of the sheriff’s deputies fired a gunshot at Johnny.” More than 20 bullet holes pockmarked Berry’s windshield. Berry suffered from a mental illness that was diagnosed a couple years ago. The day of the shooting, he appeared to be off his medication, according to his older brother. Chris Berry, John Berry's brother and a federal police officer who works at a facility with two psychiatric hospitals, said he called the Lakewood sheriff's station and asked that a mental evaluation team be dispatched. He was informed that deputies would be sent instead. The deputies who arrived were immediately aggressive and escalated the situation, Chris Berry said. He said he watched as they unleashed pepper spray, used a Taser on his brother at least four times and struck him with batons. His brother, he recalled, looked stunned and cried, "What did I do wrong?" "They said he accelerated and crashed into the police car. That did not happen — I was there for the whole thing," said Chris Berry, 37. "But they have to say that because it justifies their aggressive actions.… I believe in my heart and I know Johnny wasn't trying to hurt them." Chris Berry said that as a law enforcement officer, he is pained to be mixed up in what feels like a family fight. "I called one brother to help another brother and..." He stopped, unable to finish the sentence. Neighbors and friends described John Berry as a compassionate community member who liked to give food and money to the homeless. One of nine children who grew up in a tightknit neighborhood, Berry was remembered as a sweet kid. “He was always introspective,” said his neighbor Lisa Carter. “He was not a violent person. Never ever.” (Video available in link) http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-family-claim-deputies-20150824-story.html
Umm... http://www.koat.com/news/state-police-are-investigating-officerinvolved-shooting/34901256 A deputy saw a driver going at a high rate of speed and tried to stop the vehicle. Authorities said the driver fled, eventually getting out of the vehicle and running down Cerrillos, at which point shots were fired. Authorities have confirmed the suspect was shot and killed.
For those keeping scores, cops now lead in 2015 killings 737-21. https://www.odmp.org/search/year http://killedbypolice.net/
Rather, so you're on a home field advantage. Nah, I'm good. You're welcome to stay in the cops are vile offenders thread though.
I'm saying maybe we should discuss Cop Support in @ Steve Championship's thread instead of "shitting on" this one.
The debate started here. It rolled over there bc Gibbons made a reference to the debate here. I'd rather not ruin that thread with it. Any comment on:
Na, can't say I agree here. A decent amount of that 737 probably deserved to die. I was just alarmed that cops out kill civilians at a 36.5 to 1 clip.
"Deserved to die" is an odd thing to say about someone, and this is coming from someone that agrees with the (linited) use of capital punishment.
It's certainly justifiable, but it's also a senseless loss of life (that the deceased brought on themselves, I'll add). Death is a certainty, deserving's got nothing to do with it.
Agreed. I think that's what's at the center of the argument. People pulling a trigger to kill someone shouldn't be taken lightly and should always be a last resort because there is no going back after that point. According to FBI figures over the past 15+ years, the overall violent crime rate has gone down. Also, the number of police killed each year is generally trending downward. Yet, 'justified police homicides' have gone up consistently.
Probably agree. I have no issue in saying there are some bad citizens out there. Now, do you think all 737 citizens deserved to die? If not, why did they die? Maybe some bad cops? Can you admit that?
Why post this one? Looks like literally nothing is known yet but you instantly bring it into the bad cops thread? It may very well be one eventually but as of now all we know is someone fled and is now dead.
Do you know any other details from the story that weren't in that link? For all we know "shots fired" means he fired on them too, or pulled a gun, or any number of any other scenarios. Point being, there are plenty of new and old articles to talk about bad police. There is no need to try and talk about a story where the only information known right now is like a 2 paragraph news blurb. Again this very well could end up being another issue, or it could end up being completely justified. You're jumping the gun on this one.
There are literally 118 words in that article and 34 of them are talking about traffic being closed and they will update the story. Way too early to try and throw in this thread.
Typically the police will come out immediately and place blame on the shooter. In this case, they just said he ran. Either way, calm down. It was the most recent article posted on the page that tracks civilian deaths and I found it interesting.
Dude I'm calm as can be. Just saying that bringing an article into the bad police thread that almost nothing is known about is disingenuous. I'm sure you can pull out any number or new or old articles that did in fact turn out to be not justified. Or if this one turns out to be justified are you going to repost it and say "whoops, yup they were right to shoot him". Somehow I doubt that.
Sure I will. It happened yesterday morning and seemed suspect and worth following. Sorry you're so upset over it.
Please don't tell me you're going with "you mad". I thought you were better than Farva? I simply remarked that bringing that story into the bad police thread was pointless as there is nothing known other than someone fled and got shot. Sorry it upsets you so much for someone to call you out on that. Calm down buddy.