Baseball History Thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by bhrangerfan0809, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Forgot which TMBer this is, but I feel like this bit at 2:40 is very apropos for the current discussion :laugh:

     
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  2. Celemo

    Celemo tell 'em Steve-Dave
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesPortland Trail BlazersOregon State Beavers alt

    Chef Goldblum
     
  3. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

  4. fucktx

    fucktx ruthkanda forever
    Donor
    Texas RangersDallas Stars

    I feel like Felix is still underrated somehow if we're talking about current players. No one talks about him much because he plays in Seattle.

    50 career fWAR and he just turned 29.
     
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  5. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    I always wonder how this discussion changes if the guys who served in WWII get those years back.

    Bob Feller lost four seasons to WWII.

    He went:

    24-9 2.85 in 1939
    27-11 2.61 in 1940
    25-13 3.15 in 1941

    Finished top-3 overall in the MVP voting each year.

    He returned and went:

    26-15 2.18 in 1946
    20-11 2.68 in 1947

    Then he dropped off statistically, with a few great years sprinkled with some mediocre ones.

    He led the AL in strikeouts in the 4 seasons before he left for WWII and the first 3 seasons he returned.
     
  6. War Grundle

    War Grundle Nole Mercy
    Donor
    Florida State SeminolesTampa Bay Rays

    Overrated: Pete Rose

    Underrated: Stan Musial
     
  7. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester CityNational LeagueBarAndGrill

    all the players on the braves are underrated and all the players on the nationals are overrated
     
  8. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    Koufax was great, but I think you also have to factor that he put up his best seasons were after MLB experimented with a rule change for an expanded strike zone from 1963-1968.

    After 1968, the strike zone was restored to pre-1963 dimensions and the pitcher's mound was lowered from 15 inches to 10 inches.

    It's why you have a 30 game winner like Denny McClain or an ERA like Bob Gibson in 1968.

    Koufax has to be considered in that context because he is in the Hall of Fame largely because of what he did from 1963-1966.
     
  9. KJROD20

    KJROD20 the ends will justify the means.
    Boston Red SoxBoston CelticsNew York RangersSeton Hall Pirates

    I always say the same about Ted. He missed three seasons serving. The two seasons before before were .406/37/120 and .356/36/137, the two after were .342/38/123, .343/32/114. Won 1 MVP and finished 2nd the other 3. If you give him the average of all that for those 3 seasons, he'd be #7 in HR and #3 in RBIs.
     
  10. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville Jaguars2pacSneakersFormula 1

    I don't have shitty opinions.
     
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  11. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    Musial and Aaron had the best combination of hitting for average and power as any players in history.
     
  12. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    I wanted to say Musial but was afraid I'd get called a homer
     
  13. Blu Tang Clan

    Blu Tang Clan Sorry for partying
    Staff Donor TMB OG

    Nolan Ryan in my opinion is Brett Favre. Nearly unmatched longevity and durability with unbelievable physical tools. When those tools were all working well at the same time, they'd come up with some truly legendary performances. However, both had a bit of "cowboy" in them and were prone to making mistakes because they had too much reliance on their pure physical tools. Ryan leads all pitchers in strikeouts and walks, while Favre led in TD passes for a bit before being passed by Peyton last season and leads in interceptions. Both are great players and all-timers, but they fucked up just enough to where they wouldn't be one of the top 5 picks at their position in history.
     
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  14. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    Favre winning the mvp three years running. That's amazing stuff
     
  15. War Grundle

    War Grundle Nole Mercy
    Donor
    Florida State SeminolesTampa Bay Rays

    Love the Ryan to Favre comparison.
     
  16. Patface

    Patface Touch & Go Like A Dantonio Heartbeat
    Staff Donor
    Oakland RaidersWWESan Jose SharksSeattle SupersonicsDeVry FarvasGolden State WarriorsOakland A'sCalifornia Golden BearsNotre Dame Fighting IrishSan Jose Earthquakes

    Is it crazy to say Gehrig is underrated? He's remembered more for ALS and being Ruth's Pippen, not for having the 4th highest OPS+ ever. Dude was incredible.

    Also Jimmie Foxx is criminally underrated imo.
     
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  17. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Donor
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    We're waiting!
     
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  18. bhrangerfan0809

    bhrangerfan0809 Sprinkles are for Spelling Bee Winners™
    Donor
    Arkansas RazorbacksTexas RangersDallas MavericksDallas CowboysDallas Stars

    Not really any players, but they're very high up.
     
  19. HOOSINSC

    HOOSINSC You're with me leather
    Donor

    Gehrig's RBI numbers are just retarded.
     
  20. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    Runs scored too.
     
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  21. HOOSINSC

    HOOSINSC You're with me leather
    Donor

    even if you include the first two and final years he played (31 total games) he averaged 111 runs and 117 rbi per year.
     
  22. HOOSINSC

    HOOSINSC You're with me leather
    Donor

    barry bonds had 2558 career walks and 688 career intentional walks.
     
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  23. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    That one year they walked him like 230 times lol
     
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  24. Phil Connors

    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson Tide

    Nolan Ryan > Robin Ventura
     
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  25. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    We should get Nolan Ryan to fight Rhonda rousey
     
  26. Phil Connors

    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson Tide

    Boxing rules or MMA rules?
     
  27. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    Throwing stars and baseball bats
     
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  28. Cornelius Suttree

    Cornelius Suttree the smallest crumb can devour us
    Donor TMB OG
    Indiana HoosiersArizona DiamondbacksWyoming CowboysNorthern Arizona Lumberjacks

    Do people still think Andrus is good? That's one of the worst contracts in sports right now
     
  29. Taco Sa1ad

    Taco Sa1ad TMBSL
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishColorado BuffaloesAtlanta BravesTennessee TitansNashville Predators

    Underrated - Andrelton Simmons

    Overrated - David Wright
     
    #79 Taco Sa1ad, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
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  30. TTgator91

    TTgator91 Well-Known Member
    Florida GatorsWWE

    Who's awesome? Nomo, nomo everything.

    Thrown many balls nomo stance style in the park
     
  31. UA412

    UA412 Well-Known Member
    Staff TMB OG
    Arizona Wildcats

    Fantastic stats to judge a pitcher by.
     
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  32. Fidelio

    Fidelio Well-Known Member
    Donor

    overrated: cal ripken jr
    underrated: tim salmon
     
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  33. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    Salmon, Anderson, erstad, glaus :ohgosh:
     
  34. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    Their power numbers also were much lower (to think Aaron's should have been higher) due to the size of those old National League parks.

    Philadelphia's Shibe Park was 447 to center. Pittsburgh's Forbes field 442 to center and 457 to left/center. New York's Polo Grounds were 483 to center.

    Makes me appreciate the Willie Mays and Willie Stargell numbers more.
     
  35. ZeroPointZero

    ZeroPointZero RIP #24
    TMB OG
    Los Angeles DodgersLos Angeles LakersLos Angeles RamsTiger WoodsSouthern California Trojans

    underrated - Jordan Zimermann
    overrated - Madison Bumgarner
     
  36. tandin

    tandin Guest

    the 108 wins above replacement + 3 seasons more than twice as good as the average major leaguer in his last five are, uhh, incredible.

    nolan ryan was incredible

    if anyone tries to steal my early youth from me again I will kill them.
     
    #86 tandin, Aug 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2015
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  37. tandin

    tandin Guest

    it's like you from 5 years ago got recreated so many times

    hey, let's use saves as a stat next!
     
  38. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Pete Rose is the most overrated position player of all time
     
  39. bstaple12

    bstaple12 Nole World Order
    Atlanta BravesAtlanta FalconsFlorida State Seminoles

    Bryce Harper is the biggest douche in the game today and maybe history
    #bravesfan
     
  40. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    As a resident braves fan, I love harper
     
  41. tandin

    tandin Guest

    bryce harper is the fucking man and people with that opinion suck.
     
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  42. Celemo

    Celemo tell 'em Steve-Dave
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesPortland Trail BlazersOregon State Beavers alt

    as someone who has no emotional vested interest in Bryce Harper, I like how polarizing he has become
     
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  43. Capstone 88

    Capstone 88 Going hard in the paint
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesTennessee TitansNashville Predators2pac

    I get why people don't like his personality, but I don't know how you can hate him as a ball player
     
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  44. fucktx

    fucktx ruthkanda forever
    Donor
    Texas RangersDallas Stars

    Everyone thinks he sucks and that's still overrating him.
     
  45. fucktx

    fucktx ruthkanda forever
    Donor
    Texas RangersDallas Stars

    Harper is amazing
     
  46. bstaple12

    bstaple12 Nole World Order
    Atlanta BravesAtlanta FalconsFlorida State Seminoles

    I too like Bryce Harper , post was a joke. I get pretty giddy thinking about all the young talent baseball has right now
     
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  47. HOOSINSC

    HOOSINSC You're with me leather
    Donor

    Never understood the Ripken overrated crowd. I'm biased but the dude was a great player.
     
  48. fucktx

    fucktx ruthkanda forever
    Donor
    Texas RangersDallas Stars

    Ripken wasn't really overrated. He was way better than Vizquel and Larkin. His streak was overrated though kinda. I mean fuck yeah it's hard to play that many games in a row, but it was mainly just luck.
     
  49. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Nolan Ryan isn't the greatest pitcher of all time or anything, but I'm not sure he's overrated, either. He had a 21-year stretch where the worst fWAR season he had was 2.8. From age 40-45, his fWAR in those seasons were 6.4, 3.4, 6.9, 5.1, 4.9 and 3.5. Essentially, his performance in his 40s was equivalent to David Price in his late 20s (since 2010, Price has been 4.3, 4.5, 5.1, 4.5, 6.1 and 3.5 so far this season). He wasn't out there just padding K numbers or whatever. He was still really good/great up until his final season.

    You compare his late years to someone like Rose, for example, who racked up 884 hits between 1980-86 and posted fWAR of 0.3, 1.9, 0.1, -1.9, 0.8, 0.8 and -0.8 (that's a total of 1.2 fWAR over a seven year stretch) while breaking the hits record and becoming what some people like to call "the greatest hitter of all time".
     
  50. fucktx

    fucktx ruthkanda forever
    Donor
    Texas RangersDallas Stars

    Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. Fuck the people who say Rose was.
     
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