Detroit Tigers Thread: Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    If that's the price for Soria (and it could be, given the reliever market), I would be very disappointed if we did that. I could maybe see something like 2/$16, with an option for 3. Soria's stuff just isn't good enough to give him that kind of deal as a reliever. For the calendar year we had him, his fastball was straight and he got hit around.
     
  2. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Officially declined Nathan's option and also purchased Cessa's contract.

    News that Gibby will interview for the Dodgers job, too. Reminded me that I thought I saw him heading into the DQ in Wixom a few weeks ago, so I looked up recent pictures and it was definitely him. He's a big guy.
     
  3. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

  4. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    For that money, I'm in on:

    Jason Heyward (8/$184m)
    Jordan Zimmerman (6/$126)
    Scott Kazmir (3/$42)
    John Jaso (2/$11)
    JP Howell (2/$10)
    Tony Sipp (2/$10)
    Shawn Kelley (2/$9)
    Mark Lowe (2/$8)
    Rich Hill (1/$6)
    Trevor Cahill (1/$5)
    Ryan Madson (1/$5)
    Jonathan Broxton (1/$4)
     
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  5. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Interesting. I think it is safe to say a lot of those numbers are going to be low in years, if not AAV. I'd take Kazmir and Anderson at those numbers today, Sipp and Madson in the bullpen.
     
  6. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Yeah, I'd take Jordan Zimmerman at 6/$126M every day and twice on Sunday.
     
  7. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    I want no part of Anderson. Don't think his stuff is what it was, and any starter we sign needs a better health history than his.

    If Soria's price is 2/$16m, I wouldn't like it, but I could live with it. Would still prefer a combination of two of Sipp/Madson/Kelley/Lowe than someone one bigger relief pick-up like Soria or O'Day. The smart thing to do would be to wait that market out and try to get multiple values at the end, but our history suggests we will be the first to sign a reliever and set that market.
     
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  8. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    The projected $$ for Span and Austin Jackson was a lot higher than I would have guessed. I'm interested in both those guys, but not for 3 years and $10+ million a year.

    It doesn't sound like we have much interest in adding to the line-up, though. They talk like Gose will be back in CF, and Collins/Moya/RH bat TBA will be in LF.
     
  9. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Olney writes: "The early indications from the Tigers in the market so far are that they are going to be willing to spend money on some of the second-tier free agents rather than just looking for bargains."

    Where does the second tier start? Zimmerman, or Kazmir?
     
  10. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    My guess is that would consist of the tier starting with Kazmir, and going down towards the likes of Ian Kennedy, John Lackey, etc.
     
  11. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Yes, I thought that was probably it as well.
     
  12. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    It makes some sense if they think Anibal gets back to where he was. I have spent more than a decade hating John Lackey's guts, so I really hope he's not the guy we sign.
     
  13. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    I'm definitely no on Lackey. I'm talking myself into Kazmir.
     
  14. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    He was on the Hot Stove show on MLBN this morning.

    Jason Beck ‏@beckjason
    Avila on Tigers spending on free-agent market this offseason: “I would say probably more restrictive” compared with past offseasons.
     
  15. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    So we don't have $50M to spend on bad contracts?
     
  16. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
    JaCoby Jones, the prospect Detroit acquired in the Joakim Soria trade, has been suspended 50 games for a second positive for drug of abuse.
     
  17. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Well, there's the power. I wonder if we knew there was a first positive.
     
  18. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    And what is a "drug of abuse"?
     
  19. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
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    Probably weed or coke.
     
  20. Constant

    Constant Meh
    Donor
    Detroit PistonsMichigan WolverinesDetroit Red WingsDetroit Lions

    Our due diligence seems less than.
     
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  21. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Soria was a 2-month rental with 4 months of rough performance. Jones is a high upside guy who had just reached AA. Not sure if they could have known about the upcoming suspension (doubting they did, considering they sent him to the AFL), but maybe they would have known about his previous suspension. Either way, I'm not sure there was a whole lot out there for Soria at the time.
     
  22. Constant

    Constant Meh
    Donor
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    All good points. And I don't regret a single one of our dumps. We just seemed to get some guys with warts. Malignant ones.
     
  23. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    I don't even care, just interesting we traded for a guy with cancer and, maybe, a guy with 1 strike in the drug program.
     
  24. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    The Lions bio of Sheila Ford Hamp, who Martha is apparently leaning on the most:

    At the age of five, Sheila Ford Hamp, the second of four children, began attending Lions games at Briggs (Tiger) Stadium and Lions training camp at Cranbook School in Bloomfield Hills, MI. As a teenager, her love of the Lions and knowledge of the game of football would impress many, including, among others, then NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle.

    Now as vice chairman, alongside her mother and siblings, Mrs. Hamp pours that love, knowledge and unyielding support into the team first introduced to her by her father.

    Beyond her involvement with the Lions, Mrs. Hamp and her husband, Steve, are very active in numerous community and charitable organizations. Together they Co-Chair the board of the Purple Rose Theatre Company in Chelsea, Mich. Mrs. Hamp also is the Vice Chairman of the Board of The Henry Ford (Museum). In addition, she serves on the Boards of The Henry Ford Hospital, The Ford Motor Company Fund and The College for Creative Studies.

    Mrs. Hamp was a member of the ground-breaking group of students who were the first class of women to graduate from Yale University where she earned her Bachelor of Arts degree. While at Yale, she played varsity tennis and earned major Y honors during her college career. Following her graduation from Yale, she earned her Masters of Arts degree in teaching and early childhood education from Boston University.

    Thanks to a competitive trait she undoubtedly inherited from her father, sports have always been an integral part of Mrs. Hamp’s life. In addition to her accomplishments as a college tennis player, she competed as a junior tennis player at the national level and won a Michigan State tennis title at age 17. She also coached youth soccer for more than 10 years in her current home town of Ann Arbor.

    Mrs. Hamp and her husband have three grown sons.


    And Allison Maki, the interim COO:

    Now in her 12th year with the Lions, Maki was named Chief Operating Officer on November 5, 2015 to oversee the team’s business operations after serving as the Lions Senior Vice President, Administration and Chief Financial Officer. In her previous role, Maki oversaw the finance group, human resources and facility operations at the Lions Headquarters and Training Facility in Allen Park. She also assisted in the oversight and management of key business partners, while maintaining her role as an officer for Detroit Lions Charities

    In her previous role, Maki was one of only eight female chief financial officers in the NFL, joining Karen Murphy (Chicago), Kelly Flanagan (Jacksonville), Christine Procops (New York Giants), Jeanne M. Bonk (San Diego), Cipora Herman (San Francisco), Karen Beckman (Seattle) and Jenneen Kaufman (Tennessee).

    As the team’s Vice President of Finance and Administration, Maki managed the financial and human resources operations for the Lions and Ford Field. She was also responsible for the organization’s treasury functions and managing all internal and external audits while working closely with the NFL finance staff.

    Before coming to the Lions in 2004, Maki spent seven years at Ernst & Young LLP where she excelled as an Assurance and Advisory Business Services Manager, overseeing audits of public and private companies. Maki also led the Employee Benefit Plan audit group for the Detroit office.


    Maki isn't bad looking:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Reports from multiple people have us involved pretty heavily with O'Day and Soria. I really don't want to give one of those guys 3 years, and I'm not sure I trust Ausmus to use O'Day well enough. Hoping we strike out on those two and are forced to play for the bargain guys. Madson supposedly seeking a multi-year deal, too, which isn't a surprise, but I wonder what his market is like after his finish in the playoffs. I'd still rather have Madson for 2/$10 than Soria or O'Day for 3/$20+
     
  26. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Us, Mets and BoSox after O'Day. He's getting overpaid for sure, and I'd prefer Madson as well.
     
  27. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Brett Anderson got a qualifying offer? Yikes.

    Jon Heyman's predictions for those three relievers:

    O'Day - 3/$25M
    Soria - 2/$16M
    Madson - 2/$15M
     
  28. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    The reliever market is so bad that O'Day and Soria are getting overpaid (perhaps ridiculously so). I'm just not comfortable giving 3 years to relievers in their 30s. Especially guys you have to be careful about in terms of innings and usage.

    Soria is really hard for me to get behind right now, because he's been very good for a full season in the last two seasons. That season just happened to be the 4 months before we acquired him in 2014, and the two months after we traded him in 2015. The season he pitched for us, he seemed to have nothing on the fastball and couldn't stop giving up bombs. I don't get it.
     
  29. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Especially when one of them throws submarine. It's the major failing of the Dombrowski Era that we don't have a phalanx of homegrown, backend relievers.
     
  30. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Especially given the # of relief arms we've had down in the minors since that weird 08 draft. Our success rate with those types of guys has reached laughably terrible levels, and I'm not sure who to blame at this point.

    Sipp and Madson seem like the best combinations of talent + price, IMO. Given we're likely putting whoever we sign as the closer, those two both have reverse splits and are capable of those roles. I just don't think we're going to be willing to wait on that market, which means we're getting one of Soria/O'Day.

    Regardless of who they get for the bigger money, I hope Avila is on the phone with agents for the likes of every possible reclamation project (Brandon Morrow, Alexi Ogando, Sergio Santos, etc.) with the idea that we're looking to add as many of those guys as possible into the mix and see what sticks.
     
  31. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Once I saw Boston is involved, I wrote off O'Day. That's got Future Dombrowski Bad Contract all over it.

    I do think they're on the lookout for some reclamation types, but we're definitely signing one name guy for cash.
     
  32. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Some other under the radar type guys I would be interested in:

    Brayan Pena - hits LH, solid defender, seems like a good guy
    Franlyn Gutierrez - has had really weird injuries, but would be a better every day RH bat and glove in LF or CF than Davis if healthy
    Ryan Raburn - Raburn zone needs to retire a Tiger, and we need a corner RH bat if we're going with Moya or Collins
    Kyle Lohse - could be worth it as a possible #5 for a few months if he'll do a one-year deal
     
    ~ taylor ~ likes this.
  33. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Haha, Raburn. I love Raburn, but he's due for another stinker and I don't think he wants to have that stinker in Detroit. The booing would prove Markus Morris right. Also, the Collins-Raburn LF defensive show would be worse than 2 Broke Girls.

    I'd take the other three right now and just go shopping for 1 SP and 2-3 RP
     
  34. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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  35. RalfBully

    RalfBully #21
    Staff Donor TMB OG
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    Steve Hamp is who Mulally convinced BFJr to fire from Ford. I'm sure his wife will suck too. Can't imagine there isn't some family bitterness there still too.
     
  36. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Would have been excellent information IN THE LIONS THREAD!!!

    j/k.
     
  37. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Lot of reports saying the market for Darren O'Day is pretty heavy, and seems like he could sign relatively soon. Everyone has us in that market. Seems like he and Soria could be off the board within the next week. I'd say I'm hoping we don't get him, but I'm afraid of what that would mean in terms of a fallback plan. If they're going off the board this soon, seems like it's a given both are getting 3 years (maybe even 4 for O'Day).
     
  38. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Avila has been quoted several times saying they're looking for outfielders, especially RH hitting ones (that makes no sense to me, but okay). Gutierrez resigned in Seattle for 1 year yesterday. Seems likely we at least make some kind of play for Austin Jackson at this point, which I'd be okay with as long as the deal wasn't really long term.

    Saw Jake McGee's name floated out there as a bullpen arm that Tampa is at least listening on. I think he's got one year left on his deal. If he's available, that's the first bullpen arm I've seen where I could get legit excited about acquiring.
     
  39. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    We're at the time of year where I hold my breath when I see this thread bumped. Especially after the dumb contract the Wings just gave Abdelkader.

    I'd be down with a realistic contract for A-Jax at this point, and would be all about Jake McGee for the right price.
     
  40. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Jason Beck reporting from the GM meetings in Boca:

    Supposedly Iwakuma wants a 4 year deal. That seems long for a 34 year old coming off injury and Seattle has offered him 2. Is he a "front half" or "back end" guy? He's probably a decent 3 or 4? Signing him and Kazmir to 3 year deals would probably be pretty smart in terms of future obligations, although I'd rather spend the money on Zimmerman and Fister if I'm pairing starting options.
     
  41. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    I would say calling Iwakuma a #3 is reasonable. He's been more than that (when healthy), but the age and Saefco stuff would lead me to bump him down from that level. I think he and Kazmir are on similar levels, and I think that combination would probably be a better one than Zimmermann/Fister (although I don't see them spending that much on them).

    I'm not sure what I should think on the Tyler Collins stuff. Don't think I'm going to like that defense in LF every day, and his minor league track record isn't very exciting. The other problem is Gose needs a platoon mate v. LHP more than Collins, and going that route would mean you now need 2 RH hitting OFs. Not sure that's a recipe for success in terms of roster building, given everyone goes with 7 guys in the pen now.
     
  42. buckwild

    buckwild #BucketsGetsBuckets
    Donor
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  43. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Olney

    As the Tigers target the second-tier of free agent starting pitchers, Yovani Gallardo is someone they have interest in.
    11:40am - 13 Nov 15
     
  44. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    I want no part of Gallardo.
     
  45. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesDetroit Tigers

    Braves shopping Teheran apparently. Wonder if he could be had for a few of our non-top 10 types ...
     
  46. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Collins scares the shit out of me defensively. Especially in our big left field.
     
  47. Druce

    Druce Fuck football.
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsNotre Dame Fighting IrishAtlanta BravesDetroit LionsBarcelonaSneakers

    Why would they trade him for marginal prospects?
     
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  48. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Well, it is the Braves.
     
    Joe Louis likes this.
  49. Druce

    Druce Fuck football.
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsNotre Dame Fighting IrishAtlanta BravesDetroit LionsBarcelonaSneakers

    The Braves usually get a pretty good return out of their players.
     
  50. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Yeah, that's probably accurate. I feel like they got swindled recently, but upon some Lawsian research they seem to make fair deals.