Detroit Tigers Thread: Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Whether you realize this or not, you're trying to talk about too many things that don't really fall into the same category. Rather than write a bunch of paragraphs that no one is going to read, I'll just say that Ilitch set up a scenario over the last decade that made it easier for his front office to win in the short term, but far more difficult to win in the long term. This is clear when you consider all of the factors that go into the kinds of players they have acquired, and the way in which those players were developed. I don't agree with some of the things the org has done in those departments over the years, but context matters when discussing them.

    If you're going to blame Avila, Dombrowski and Chadd for a lack of players coming up through the minors and the current state of the team with all the inflated contracts for players who aren't performing, Ilitch needs to be right there with them in that line.
     
  2. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
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    No one is denying Illitch deserves part of the blame, but he's the owner so he's not going anywhere until he dies. So the next logical choice is to get rid of some of the people who have not done their jobs well. Avila did strike out on his FA signings; specifically, Lowe and Pelfrey were the worst IMO. And Chadd has botched our drafts for the past 10 years or so. You can say that Illitch has forced their hands by making them draft players closer to the majors with less potential, but even those guys have been busts for the most part, I.e. Ryan Perry and Chance Ruffin.
     
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  3. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Look around at the names of the FAs signed last winter. Pretty much every team "struck out" if we're making those judgments today. Ilitch made the decision that an old team that was probably not capable of contending wasn't going to do anything resembling a rebuild. That's not Avila. That's Ilitch.

    Pelfrey and Lowe were very bad signings, but we're not in this spot because of those two signings.

    Ilitch didn't force them to draft players closer to the big leagues. His activity in FA kept them out of the 1st round, which in the era of bonus pools has been very detrimental to the ability to draft high upside talent. Clearly, that had some positive value to the main roster that helped win the division 4 straight years, but you can't just overlook the fact that not having a first round pick makes drafting a lot harder.
     
  4. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    If we simply win one of the two WS we made, this era would have been an unqualified success. After the dead period through 2005, I'll take the last 11 years of mismanagement.
     
  5. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    And with a few years ahead of us of JV, Fulmer, Zimmerman, Norris and Boyd - and maybe decent Anibal re-emerging - in the rotation, we'll contend again the next few years.
     
  6. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Okay, the last chance gasp starts tonight in Minnesota. Tigers have 3.5 weeks (22 games) against the Twins, Angels, ChiSox and O's before we head into Cleveland, and it probably behooves them to run through those games at about 15-7. Time win 7 straight series.

    Need J-Up's Big Weekend to turn into J-Up's Big Month.
     
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  7. Chewbacca

    Chewbacca Old Salt
    Donor

    Brad's gonna hang back and save some legs for the last week of September. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
     
  8. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    We'll undoubtedly sweep the Indians after they clinch the division.
     
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  9. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Let's see if Brad sends out Anibal at 94 pitches with a nice outing under his belt...

    And he didn't! Wow. Maybe he's learning.
     
  10. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    He pulled Verlander after 6 in a similar situation on Sunday
     
  11. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    That was a 9 run lead, not 5. So I think he was just saving Justin an inning there.
     
  12. RalfBully

    RalfBully #21
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    So what are we thinking gets us in the playoffs? 90 wins?
     
  13. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    That's a good number. We need to go 24-13 the rest of the way. Roughly .650 baseball.

    It ain't happening.
     
  14. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
    Donor TMB OG
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    Salazar got rocked again last night. Indians are basically down to two reliable starters. still a chance to catch them if our SPs can keep this up. #2 in AL ERA since 7/1 ...
     
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  15. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    also, how the fuck is Texas 20 games up with a -2 run differential?? the AL is really dumb this year ...
     
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  16. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    They need to pretty much collapse, and they haven't yet. 19-19 the rest of the way gets them to 91 wins. They've been a .500 teams since June ended, but July 1 was the last win of their 14 game streak. Hopefully they go more like 14-24.
     
  17. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    I think 88 wins is the low end of the Wild Card race at this point. 91 wins seems like it should be enough.

    To win the division, I think it's a minimum of 92, and would have to include winning at least 5 of our last 6 v. Cleveland.
     
  18. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    now Bauer getting shelled. Tomlin goes tomorrow and hes regressed as well. opportunity in Minny, need this sweep ...
     
  19. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Upton is going streaking.
     
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  20. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Greene getting groundballed to death. He should be out of the inning.
     
  21. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Indians heading to Texas for 4. Would be nice for them to go 1-3 this weekend while we sweep the Twins and take 2-3 from the Angels. We're also tied with Seattle, 3 games back of the O's for the last WC spot and 4 games back of the Jays and BoSox (O's and Jays play a set this weekend). The Jays have 12 games against the O's and BoSox and the O's and BoSox have 13 games left against each other and the O's. That's a lot of losses in there for us to take advantage of.
     
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  22. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
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    Need to sweep Angels. 2 of our best 3 pitchers going. Can't afford to go 2 out of 3 vs last place teams.

    Good chance to pick up 2 games this weekend. Could get this down to 3 games. This weekend will tell a lot about how season will finish
     
  23. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Cleveland is really trying to get my hopes up.
     
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  24. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    their pitching at the moment kind of blows. comparable to where we were when JV/Fulmer were the only reliable starters ...
     
  25. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Indians lose, Os lose, Jays lose, BoSox lose, Mariners lose, Royals win. 4.5 out of the Central, 2 out of the WC.
     
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  26. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    fuckin Royals ...
     
  27. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    anyways, 1 game back in the wildcard ...
     
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  28. FourClover01

    Donor

    This AL East, Central and wild card chase is going to be a dog fight the rest of the way.
     
  29. Woodrow

    Woodrow Well-Known Member
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    New and improved JV is so much fun to watch
     
  30. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Let's stop getting thrown out of the game and maybe score some runs tonight, guys.
     
  31. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    vic definitely deserved it ...
     
  32. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    I wondered why Romine was hitting 5th.
     
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  33. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    C'mon Justin.
     
  34. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    dont question Manager of the Year Bradley Ausmus ...
     
  35. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    It sounds like we've had some issues with the umpiring tonight.
     
  36. Chocolate Giddyup

    Chocolate Giddyup Well-Known Member
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  37. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    JaCoby Jones being called up. Probably bad news for Maybin.
     
  38. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Also McGehee and Boyd down to Toledo. I assume those are purely procedural with the rosters expanding Thursday.
     
  39. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    McGehee was hitting at a wRC+ level of 37. That's a -7 offensive WAR. I think Jones is going to play 3B a lot until Nick is back. That's where he's playing tonight. Boyd is procedural - the bullpen needs some help today and tomorrow and he's not scheduled to start until this weekend.
     
  40. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Ausmus made it seem like Jones was called up for 3B, not CF, although he said he could play too.
     
  41. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Collins has been passable there, but hopefully Maybe isn't out too long. Romine is actually serviceable in CF, but can't hit for shit.

    Goddammit it would be nice to blow a shitty pitcher off the mound tonight.
     
  42. RalfBully

    RalfBully #21
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    Heeeeyooooooo
     
  43. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    thank god the TMB Tigers thread is back :woot:
     
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  44. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Thank god for day baseball!
     
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  45. Chocolate Giddyup

    Chocolate Giddyup Well-Known Member
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    MLB.TV is a phenomenal invention for my baseball pleasure but horrendous for productivity at my desk. Work or Sale vs. Verlander?
     
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  46. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    I listen to the radio stream and work at 15% capacity, rather than watching it and working at 0%.
     
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  47. Chocolate Giddyup

    Chocolate Giddyup Well-Known Member
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    I should adopt this method but I've got real efficient at working during commercial breaks.
     
  48. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    That's when I go to the bathroom.

    Upton with a single that raises his OPS to .700. I assume that's a high water mark for him this season.
     
  49. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    On Upton, it isn't. His brief breakout at the end of July and beginning of August had it up to .701.