So obviously Williams future brother in law and family has business interest or ownership in the facility. Wonder if he is the representative the board already sent? Don't think so, but possible I suppose.
wonder if Maeve and Delhorres gaining this new insight on life will actually factor into the new narrative going on in the park or if their purpose has to do with stuff in HQ when not in the park. Poor fucking Teddy. MiB's reaction to seeing that it was him was great. Of course it's gotta be you Teddy
Also, I'm (unfortunately) starting to see lots of evidence for William = MIB, primarily due to the timelines being all jumbled up. I think we see different points in time with every shot, i.e., not chronologically. Dolores is still on the bounty hunt with William and Logan, but in the previous scene she was talking to Barnard. I can't imagine they pull her out of the park all the time and then immediately put her right back in (again---where is this damn thing?). Also, with how sentient she's becoming, I assume her talks with Barnard happened before, but she also seems to be using some of the knowledge she gains during the talks. The flashbacks make things even more confusing. The relative timelines of everyone really makes my head hurt.
Also, read this somewhere last night---what if Ford's new narrative is the hosts becoming sentient? What is that's the purpose of this story, for the hosts to become 'alive' and question their existence/their maker.
I mean major reach here, but what if Logan is the past version of the MIB. Couldn't just as easily be him instead of William By the way I don't buy alternative timelines. I think everything is happening around the same time.
There is no evidence that william is mib. None. Sure, there's reason to believe there could be multiple timelines (i dont believe that either), but there is not one thing that connects the two characters except picking up the can.
The only thing that seems off are the bernard/dolores talks but 1) i dont think its important when they are, 2) her consciousness could be transferred to a different "dolores" when she sleeps. Bernard talks to her ai through that one then transfers it back. But again, i dont think its terribly important.
I also assumed Bernard was just talking to "a dolores" while she was "sleeping" in the park's timeline. then she when she "returns" she just wakes up. William and MiB are both happening during this new time (the only timeline) of Arthur talking to hosts and Wyatt being introduced. I thought that was becoming more and more clear with the last two episodes... but sure I guess Wyatt could have just happened to have been introduced 30 years ago and dolores, the oldest host in the park, has literally been doing the dropping can act that entire time instead of changing roles like they claimed the hosts do. that just seems really dumb to me is the lots of evidence = your middle paragraph? not trying to be Tiffin Thread Police but nothing there is any kind of evidence to the MiB/William theory... maybe other theories but not that one. I think we should be able to consider it an absolute fact at this point that Wyatt is something that got introduced in the "present time" / 2016 / the only timeline going on in the show (if you believe there's only 1 timeline). Did they mention Wyatt in the little easter egg finding with William and his friend? I can't remember that conversation. If Wyatt was mentioned in that scene then William is 100% in the present day/same timeline as MiB. Re: Bernard Talks - when is "before"? She's definitely using the things they talk about in the present/William timeline, ie- the map and maze. in a roundabout way I think this actually defeats the MiB=William theory on it's own. Unless the theory is saying that Bernard had these Dolores talks 30 years ago / when MiB had his first park visit. In which case he hasn't aged in 30 years because he looks the same in the dolores talks as he does with hopkins currently. Don't think he's a robot but would be the only explanation and a crazy one
Also who is ready for the Hopkins and Harris meet and chat. Going to be such telling scene and maybe the best of the season.
also interested how that conversation is gonna go. MiB seems important enough on the outside that Hopkins can't fuck with him and threaten like he did with the corporate lady in that neo lunch.
I should've been clearer---not necessarily William = MIB, but I think we're seeing two or three timelines unfold at once. I think Bernard's talks with Dolores happened before her narrative involving William and Logan, and disagree it's when she's sleeping. Here's my reasoning: I thought, at first, they might be in some Matrix-type park, where you get 'plugged in' and go some alternate virtual reality. However, with the guys in Hazmat suits, Maeve finding her bullet, and Maeve witnessing the bodies being cleaned off, I think it's obvious that Westworld is a real, physical place, and the hosts have to be physically removed from the park to have their 'sit downs' with the programmers. Thus, it wouldn't make sense for the programmers to come get Dolores while she's camping and then put her back---in fact, isn't that what they tried to do in the latest episode, when the old guy came up to Dolores while they were in Murda (Muda? The Mexican town), and was almost kidnapping her back to the ranch before William spoke up and said she's with them. There has been some other things re: timeliness of events that has caused me confusion, but the main thing coming to mind right now is the talks between Dolores and Bernard.
i'm definitely confused about how the bernard talks would happen with getting her in and out of the park. but it still seems like it's happening in the present time, when William is in the park. just gonna sit back and wait for some kind of explanation here hopefully in the next few episodes. like maybe he gets busted for doing what he's doing FYI that old guy trying to come get her out of the park with William being there is just another pretty overwhelming factor that MiB is not William and they're both in the park at the same time during the only timeline
i don't know guys, the bernie/dolo talks have seemed to always stand apart from everything else. they're a bit more ominous, i'm not sure what it is. probably a filter.
Dolores-Bernard talks seem to be happening concurrently to the events in the rest of the show, imo She's getting progressively different, etc.
as tlau said, it could be him "talking to her" via programming etc. or it could have happened in the past (but not in a duel timeline standpoint) just over time
Agree, didn't think of that. Also agree with this. They seem to be happening concurrently, but with what we understand about how the world works, I don't see how it's logistically possible.
It can't be exactly concurrent, because the open for this show was after she ran away from home and ended up in the camp with William. She didn't go in for servicing in between there. I have no doubt it will be a great scene, but I don't think we're going to learn a ton from it.
gotcha. and yeah, that issue nags at me throughout every episode. Honestly think it's just writing shoddiness or not wanting us to worry about it too much. I usually don't assume everything in an episode actually happens in the linear sequence it is depicted as.
definitely could just be a writing issue and they may not even explain it at all just make us eat the logistics part that doesn't make sense, for the sake of storytelling. it would basically require bernard sending in someone specifically to get her out while the guests she's with are asleep and then put her back. he definitely makes a comment during one of their talks that she needs to get back before someone misses her, or something similar.
Also, think it's fair to say that Dolores hasn't been dropping that can for 30 years. Her talk with the little spanish girl, and the girl saying "Im from the same place you are" which can mean more than one thing, but her flashback seemed like a different narrative? Might be wrong. Here's another theory: What if the MiB is Logan's father?
I think this is right. As the "oldest host in the park" Dolores has had several narratives, just like Abernathy
I listen to Bald Move. It's like 2 plus hours, so some overkill involved, but I listen to a lot of podcasts so it's no big deal for me. They go pretty in depth and I like the 2 guys that do it for the most part. If you stumble upon others, post them in here.
I'm not even going to attempt to make sense of this show or predict what's going to happen. It's too hard to figure out.
I agree the timing of the talks between Bernard and Dolores are tough to reconcile happening in a timely manor. BUT I still think it's possible that he could be talking to her through programming without actually physically pulling her out of the park. One reason and one clue - The reason being, they do all seem to take place when she is "sleeping" so he waits until shes gone to sleep before he talks to her; the clue being, she is still in her clothes during these meetings (I think Swim may have pointed this out). Shes in her own head so she just see herself as she always is. BUT it's tenuous at best. I would say maybe he is just meeting with her in different rooms across the park that are their for quick retools or troubleshooting with hosts. Seems to be the same room every time though. I don't know, tough to say.
The religion stuff is interesting. Ford sees himself as a god and even inserted park workers into the Native Americans' religion as guardians. Or Natives are having memories and developed the religion on their own. I guess they could have had some Maeve-like experience and moved to the outskirts of town as they lost their mind / realized some of the things going on. I wonder if Ford killed Arnold? Maybe he wanted to be the only "god." MIB wants to figure that shit out. William is kind of a bitch. $40K per day to get friend zoned.
Interesting that the MIB continues to mention how he is running out of time We already know he has enough money to stay there as long as he can Wonder why he is in such a rush
Bernard told Delores that if she solves the maze she is free. Maybe the maze is some advanced Turing Test that Arnold / Ford set up and if a host solves it or gets to the end they will let that host leave Westwold?
I'm really bad with theories in these shows but he did have a speech about eternal life and something about Arnold too, maybe he's dying.
The Cure song from this episode. The Cure - A Forest Come closer and see See into the trees Find the girl If you can Come closer and see See into the dark Just follow your eyes Just follow your eyes I hear her voice Calling my name The sound is deep In the dark I hear her voice And start to run Into the trees Into the trees Into the trees Suddenly I stop But I know it's too late I'm lost in a forest All alone The girl was never there It's always the same I'm running towards nothing Again and again and again and again
Yeah I thought the same thing last week, but gibbons brings up a good point about the MiB. Only reason I can imagine he'd want to get there is if he was attempting to stop the androids from completing it and becoming self aware or something.
To me, this just confirms that this is not an "underground park" like many have suggested. "head above ground to freeze action" "If assigned to head back topside" and the bit about the shafts undertakers dig graves into. Telling yall, it's on Mars. End of the first season we see huge horizon shot of the desert and there are two moons.
I'm starting to think MiB could be the board member that was sent to Westworld that Ford references in his chat with Theresa. It would make sense that a wealthy foundation owner could sit on a board. That is the way a lot of boards run. Only thing holding me back from thinking that way is the 30 years. Other thoughts from this episode... I feel like the maze may be a place that was setup for sentient androids to get to. Read an interesting theory that maybe Dolores killed Arnold. I saw pictures of the same gun. One from her flashback by the church that was shiny and new and one that she dug up that was more rusted. Pretty sure the multiple timelines theory is nonsense as it relates to MiB and William.
I agree. I would be a bit annoyed if it was underground. I don't know that the location matters much to the outcome, but I do like the notion that it is in a place that otherwise didn't have life, and that is Why all animals are hosts. Flies being the only exception because they hitched a ride.