*** Official MMA Thread II ***

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Krieger, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    What is "this"?
     
  2. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    UFC Fight Night 91 on FS1

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    that was the most boring round of ufc "fighting" i've ever seen
     
  4. G46

    G46 Well-Known Member
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    Female fights suck
     
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  5. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    that was a horrific display of shitty fighting. Division 2 invicta shitty. The earlier chick fight was brutal and quick. This last one was horrawful
     
  6. Long Ball Larry

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    That was an ass beating
     
  7. One Man Wolfpack

    One Man Wolfpack I hate Godzilla!
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    Oh, wow. Corner threw in the towel as well. That's something you rarely ever see.

    Smolka looked like a monster though. He poured it on and never let up for 2 rounds. Nguyen is one tough SOB to work threw those elbows and escape all those submissions. Never quit.
     
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  8. One Man Wolfpack

    One Man Wolfpack I hate Godzilla!
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    Brutal. Noke couldn't resist tapping for less than 1 more second so he could make it out of the round.
     
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  9. Long Ball Larry

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    I bet on this Rooskie
     
  10. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    jesus, give him the mouthpiece back

    last thing I wanted to see was teeth going flying across the canvass
     
  11. Long Ball Larry

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    I was hoping the ref would just stick it back in his mouth
     
  12. Long Ball Larry

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    This Boetch Samman fight is an easy one to pick using the juicer scale.
     
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  13. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    Samman does the hit with both hands at the same time thingy. It's odd. If you saw it, your eyes would bleed out.
     
  14. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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    Although, I have no idea how Boetsch can make 185. Looks like he weighs about 220 right now.
     
  15. Mitch Cumstein

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    someone tell me why the hell samman is trying to wrestle Boetsch
     
  16. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    Samman is fucked up
     
  17. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Hahaha gotta love boetsh
     
  18. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Or not
     
  19. Long Ball Larry

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    I'm getting my teeth kicked in. Haven't picked a winner yet.
     
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  20. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Don't blame you for picking Samman. But I just like the fact that boetsch comes swinging. Samman wasn't expecting to get out muscled in the clinch.

    LOL at 'coming into my prime'
     
  21. Long Ball Larry

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    Going to try one more time. No odds on the Ferguson Vannata winner (only total rds), but I'm thinking I'll roll the dice one more time with McDonald.
     
  22. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Lol Ferguson would get destroyed by Conor. His ground game would have to be relentless.
     
  23. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

  24. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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    Awesome round. Ferguson needs to stick to the jab.
     
  25. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Lol. Ferguson is a pussy.
     
  26. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    that fight was awesome
     
  27. One Man Wolfpack

    One Man Wolfpack I hate Godzilla!
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    You gotta remember, Landon is a 145er. He moved up a weight class to take a fight against a top 3 fighter in the LW division.

    Landon was already impressive. But it's more impressive he did this moving up a weight class for his 1st fight in the UFC.
     
  28. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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    You need just a mediocre ground game to keep Conor down.
     
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  29. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    you forget that Barboza fight already?
     
  30. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, absurd chin and obviously struggled with the height/reach. Bright future for him.
     
  31. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    I want to see more of him. Love the action.
     
  32. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    Ts and Ps
     
  33. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Kinda true. But he simply cannot strike with Conor. He fought some bum named banana and had to choke him out because he couldn't knock him out. Give me a break.
     
  34. Mitch Cumstein

    Mitch Cumstein yells at cloud
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    USA chants never bode well
     
  35. NP13

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  36. Long Ball Larry

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    It's been nice knowing you guys :killme:
     
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  37. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Well that was fun while it lasted. At least these lads went at it tonight.
     
  38. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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    Damn, crazy power for a guy who's fought at 125 (though missed weight a few times).
     
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  39. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    Long Ball Larry. Maybe you can bet on how many people are tweeting Dana how this card was more fun than 200.
     
  40. Long Ball Larry

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    I'd be wrong, I'm sure.
     
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  41. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
    Donor

    'I put fear in his face'

    sure Tony.
     
  42. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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  43. Cornfed Buffalo

    Cornfed Buffalo What's a Narduzzi?
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    Hahahahaha. Holy shit.
     
  44. snowfx2

    snowfx2 Well-Known Member
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    Long but insanely detailed info about the UFC purchase

    What in many ways was the biggest week in UFC history ended with almost nothing but questions about the future.

    After months of denials by Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta of stories that the company was for sale, the company confirmed it was not just true but the sale was completed. The new owners are WME-IMG, the former William Morris Endeavor, at the same record-setting price tag of $4 billion that had been reported for months.

    It was roughly double the largest sports franchise sale in history, that being the 2012 sale of the Los Angeles Dodgers for $2 billion. Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta purchased the company from Bob Meyrowitz and Semaphore Entertainment Group in 2001 for $2 million. They will garner in the neighborhood of $3 billion or more for their stock in the company. The exact figure is unknown since WME-IMG actually purchased less than 90 percent and both Fertitta Brothers will remain with a small amount of stock in the new company.

    Dana White was given ten percent of the company both to run it in 2001, and as a finder’s fee at the time. He brought the deal to the Fertittas when he found out Bob Meyrowitz was looking to sell in 2000 (Dan Lambert, who is now the owner of the American Top Team gym in Coconut Creek, FL, a longtime MMA personality and huge pro wrestling fan, was actually expected to get the company when the Fertittas emerged as buyers). His percentage was shaved to roughly nine percent after a ten percent sale to Flash Entertainment in Abu Dhabi. White’s stock in the sale would have been worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $360 million. If the $4 billion number was accurate, the sale would have been for 90 percent and not 100 percent, White’s cut would have been worth closer to $400 million.

    White is said to have sold his stock, and then repurchased a percentage. The amount of stock he now has was not disclosed. Whether he purchased it at a sweetheart deal rate, because it was felt by the new owners that it was important for him to stay as the public face the company, was also not disclosed.

    White will remain as President of the Company. According to ESPN, he signed a five-year contract that would also pay him nine percent of profits. In past years, much, but not all, of UFC profits were distributed to the owners at the end of the year in the form of dividends. White would get nine percent of that distribution.

    But they didn’t distribute all of the profits in dividends. Last year, while business profits were $157,806,000, because of servicing the debt, losses in other businesses (like the UFC Gym chain, all losses in other businesses totaled $6,897,000 last year), and some foreign costs, White’s nine percent would have been roughly $10,665,180 but his dividend was closer to $6,848,010. In 2014, a less profitable year, the dividend distribution was actually greater than final net income (similar to how WWE dividends annually have paid out more than profits, so while WWE is usually profitable, its actual money on hand has declined greatly over the years).

    So this appears to be a step up in pay. There have been no changes of late with the rest of the executive team, but in time, new owners will want their own people in. The company will remain based in Las Vegas and the new UFC office campus is still slated to be the new home of the company. For now, everything will stay pretty much the same past Lorenzo Fertitta no longer having any involvement.

    Lorenzo Fertitta, the CEO and Chairman, will be leaving, rumor has it, to either help build a football stadium to bring an NFL team (rumored to be the Oakland Raiders) to Las Vegas, or to purchase or build more casinos, including on the strip. WME-IMG told everyone involved in the deal to keep confidential about the exact amount of stock each side now owns.

    The main financial backer of the new group, and key new stakeholders, is Silver Lake Partners, a worldwide business that has offices around the world, but is based in New York. The other major investors, KKR (Kohlberg Kravis Roberts), MSD Capital (the investment group of computer business mogul Michael Dell) and MSO Partners, are also New York based.

    The final group of WME-IMG partners in making the deal are very different from the ones in various reports over the past few weeks. Their actual partners and backers have been reported to have changed many times.

    From what UFC sources have said, the deal almost fell through. Apparently the deal was close to being made or perhaps verbally agreed to at the time the first reports of the sale came out. However, some of the money behind the original highest bid fell through. The money figure apparently fell below $4 billion, and Lorenzo Fertitta was leaning toward not selling at a lower price. While White hasn’t said anything, he did talk about being bittersweet and sad about not working with his best friend.

    Talks with the China Media Capital people, who had offered $3.95 billion, had continued and they were still in the game until the past week, and even holding meetings last week about moves to make and prospective labor issues.

    But WME-IMG were able to get new partners and Fertitta accepted the deal.

    At of this moment, sources say Flash Entertainment did not sell their ten percent of the company. So evidently their points will be negotiated separately. It was said the Flash stock hasn’t been sold “yet,” but a separate deal may be made with Flash in the very near future.

    The actual ownership breakdown leading into the sale was 71.89 percent by Fertitta Business Management, LLC (Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta), 9.99 percent by January Capital (parent company of Flash Entertainment), 8.09 percent by Dana and Anne White (Dana’s wife) Family Trust, 4.49 percent by the Frank Fertitta III Trust, 4.49 percent by the Lorenzo Fertitta Trust, 0.90 percent by the Dana and Anne White Irrevocable Trust and 0.15 percent by Zuffa Pipco 1.

    The Fertittas in the sale have no decision-making power with the new company and are “passive owners,” similar to Flash. Flash purchased ten percent of the company many years ago for a figure believed to be in the $150 million range.

    Through the years the company had received numerous offers and eventually turned them down. This time, it was the Fertittas who were out in front in looking to sell, hiring The Raine Group LLC to get the word out several months ago that UFC was for sale, provide the company’s financial data, and take bids. The $4 billion bid was slightly above the $3.95 billion bid by a conglomerate of Focus Media, China Media Capital (which owns a stake in Manchester City soccer), FountainVest, Boyu and Carlyle. The Dalian Wanda Group, which owns the AMC Theater chain, was originally thought to be the major investment money behind the WME-IMG bid, and had originally bid for the company on its own. Campbell McLaren, who ran UFC in its early days, and now heads Combate Americas, headed a bid months ago of $2.8 billion, before dropping out, feeling any higher number was overvalued.

    Lorenzo Fertitta and White had continued to deny sale talks throughout this process, both to employees and the media. Even as late as midweek they told the Los Angeles Times that there was no sale. The quotes were stated by both saying they haven’t sold it, and the claim is the actual sale didn’t go through until 7/9. While people took the quotes to say the sale stories were incorrect and the company was not being sold, and Fertitta certainly hinted at that, they never said there were no negotiations to sell.

    Fertitta did clarify if there were talks going on he wouldn’t talk about them. But even then White claimed, without mentioning names, that the ESPN reporter (Darren Rovell) who wrote the first major story that the company was for sale had gone radio silent, and that the reporter (Jeremy Botter) who wrote several weeks ago that the company had agreed to sell to WME-IMG wasn’t credible.

    “As far as the business goes, our goal was always to take this sport to the next level, and Ari (Emanuel) and WME-IMG are the guys to take it from here,” said Dana White to the Los Angeles Times.

    He claimed the denials were because “there was 100 times it wasn’t going to be sold.”

    It’s notable that the new owners are all from New York based companies. It was thought with so many bids including money from China, that part of the goal of the new ownership group would be having local ownership would enable a move into China. Obviously everyone in the worldwide entertainment business is looking at China as a key market, but the UFC’s position in China would be similar to that of WWE and other companies, an American company trying to do business there, as opposed to being a Chinese company doing business there. That is a world of difference.

    Emanuel is believed to heavily eye China and his goal is said to partner with China from the inside.

    White talked about, with WME-IMG’s entertainment connections, that fighters will be able to have more doors open for them in Hollywood.

    One of the reasons they were able to get a $4 billion price tag is because of the belief that in 2018, there will be a bidding war for the UFC television contract. Of course that’s almost identical with WWE beliefs on several occasions when their deals expired which every time ended up not panning out. UFC has become cornerstone programming on FS 1 and FS 2, occupying a large percentage of their days with both live shows, taped replays and specials. FS 1 surpassed ESPN 2 for second place among cable sports networks over the first six months of 2016, and UFC was a key part of that.

    The expectation is ESPN will also bid for the contract, perhaps as much to get the key property off FS 1, their leading sports competition. The current television deal with FOX is worth about $110 million or so a year. The Los Angeles Times said insiders were talking about a $250 million annual increase when the new contract expires at the end of 2018, which would significantly increase the profit margins.

    It was Fertitta’s financial wealth from the family’s chain of casinos that allowed UFC to survive some lean years, with a bad PPV deal and no television. They reportedly lost anywhere from $33 million to $44 million between 2001 and 2005. Once the company had a television deal from Spike TV, its PPV numbers exploded.

    For now, it will be business as usual, but inevitably, there will be changes made. Ari Emanuel, who heads WME-IMG, was the intermediary that helped UFC lock its current television contract with FOX. He’s worked with the UFC for years and is no stranger to the operations or to White. His company also represents Ronda Rousey and Chris Weidman, but only for their work in Hollywood, and did not negotiate their fighting deals.

    “It’s been exciting to watch the organization’s incredible growth over the last decade under the leadership of the Fertitta, Brothers, Dana White and their dedicated team. We’re now committed on pursuing new opportunities for UFC and its talented athletes to ensure the sport’s continued growth and success on a global scale.”

    White said that nothing would change about his style of promotion.

    “WME-IMG, which has a proven track record of building leading sports brands, will focus on accelerating the sports’ popularity and presence around the world,” the UFC wrote in a press release.

    WME-IMG purchased the Pro Bullriders Association tour for $100 million in April, 2015. Over the first year they were in control, television viewership increased 20 percent.

    “We’re confident that the new ownership team of WME-IMG, with whom we’ve built a strong relationship over the last year years, is committed to accelerating UFC’s global growth,” said Lorenzo Fertitta. “Most importantly, our new owners share the same vision and passion for this organization and its athletes.”

    Still, White admitted the sale was bittersweet.

    “Lorenzo was worth $1.5 billion and there were many times he’d put in longer hours than his staff in our offices,” White said to the Los Angeles Times. “I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t emotional, a little bummed out.”

    While things weren't always smooth, and it seemed there were twists, turns and crises on a regular basis, the story of the Fertitta Brothers purchase of the UFC in 2001 for $2 million, and it's sale 15 ½ years later for $4 billion was the ability to see in a nearly-dead product the potential of major mass appeal.

    The company's business had its peaks and valleys over the past decade, with the peaks built around marketable stars and big fights. But even in a year when everything seemed to go wrong, like 2014, with a lack of both, the company still pulled a healthy profit. In 2015, as Ronda Rousey and Conor McGregor drew large pay-per-view numbers, the company had its biggest year to date, grossing $608,629,000 and ending with $157,806,000 in operating income. The company spent about $57,460,000 in advertising and in the range of $75 million to $85 million in pay for fighters. In 2014, a weak year for PPV, the company grossed $449,008,000 and had $73,957,000 in operating income.

    Both figures don’t include the annual interest on the company’s long-term debut, which hovers at around $460 million. That figure was $22,797,000 in 2014 and $21,767,000 in 2015, so actual net income was lower.

    Also purchased was the company’s 50 percent ownership in UFC Gyms and home fitness related products.

    White will stick around, which was considered a key with every company that put in bids. But the dynamic that built the success, of the two best friends working side-by-side on what started as almost a passion product, will change.

    The expectation is if UFC was sold to one of China's business heavyweights, that it would open the door to an emerging financial market. There was the idea that the company's key market, the U.S., was mature, in the sense its popularity level is established. With the huge population base in China, the potential long-term of a sport that has a natural appeal because so many people like to watch fights, that the sky was the limit.

    As far as the timing of the Fertittas deciding to cash out, there are different ways of looking at it. Last year's numbers were spectacular and were going to be difficult to duplicate. Both Rousey and McGregor lost their last fights and there are questions as to Rousey's future, and she brought a unique fan base to the sport every time she fought. UFC’s short-term fortunes are star-driven and there don't appear to be candidates to replace them. With upsets more and more prevalent, the long periods of domination that made Anderson Silva, Jon Jones and Georges St-Pierre into superstars are harder-and-harder to achieve. Unlike when UFC first got on television, championship titles alone don't necessarily create stars, nor guarantee big audiences.

    Rumors have persisted during all the sale talks, and this goes back months before ESPN first broke the story, that the Fertittas were interested in being involved in bringing the NFL to Las Vegas, perhaps not as owners, but in building a stadium, or looking to expand their casino business. heir company just purchased The Palms. You can look at the decision as feeling the 2015 success would be difficult to sustain, or the decision to sell had nothing to do with that at all, but simply the timing of wanting capital for business opportunities presenting themselves now.

    On the flip side, UFC and MMA are more established as sports in the culture than ever before. The Jon Jones drug test failure, Brock Lesnar's return, UFC 200 and this sale were all huge mainstream stories. While UFC is not the NBA in terms of popularity, the analogy that may hold is that the NBA has its periods with huge stars and big popularity, and other periods not as big. But even in those periods, tons of people watch the NBA and it's still a hugely successful franchise.

    UFC television ratings are growing at a time when most television numbers are down. Live attendance is solid. Pay-per-view, which is extremely volatile, as UFC shows can do anywhere between 100,000 and 1.6 million buys, are still a significant percentage of overall revenue. But it's not like the pre-FOX years, where UFC was mostly a pay-per-view business and its fortunes were dependent upon one unpredictable revenue stream that is greatly affected by changing of stars and the sport’s high injury rate.

    But the world is also rapidly changing. Television, pay-per-view and streaming technology are going to change in ways that nobody can fully figure out right now. With that, revenue potentials will change.

    Years ago, the idea was that if the entire world was connected by the Internet, and you put on a big fight, and you don't need cable partners around the world to distribute it (and in North America, get about a 50 percent split of the revenue), the financial potential to the company was enormous.

    But we're still not close to that day. The vast majority of UFC's pay-per-view orders come from traditional means, the satellite and cable companies rather than directly from the promotion on streaming services, where they can get the full cut instead a half-cut.

    The big picture is far more than whether Ronda Rousey is done, or if Conor McGregor can continue to pull in big numbers. Stars will come and go. Even if we may look back on the 2015 business and view it as a peak in some ways, past it being the catalyst for the enormous sale price, the future is about things that may have little to do with big fights and their results.

    It's more having to do with what happens with television, or other content distributors. The key to UFC going forward looks to be the value of sports rights fees both domestic and abroad. When the FOX deal is up at the end of 2018, will there be competition for the franchise, whether from ESPN, or another network? Will new distribution models be able to compete with television financially for sports rights? Or will more and more research and knowledge in regard to brain injuries turn the next generation off to combat sports? What will happen with lawsuits and labor issues?

    White is now an enormously wealthy man who built a business from the ground to prosperity. It is a lock there will be business disagreements on directions between he and the new owners. They may end up with a relationship as good as White had with Lorenzo Fertitta. Or they may not.

    Short-term, White will be there. Long-term it depends on what he wants to do with his life and his goals. The ability is there to kick back and enjoy life if running the UFC ceases to be fun, which would be far less likely to happen with Fertitta working alongside him. White is used to getting what he wants and not often getting his decisions overruled.

    The new ownership is going to eventually place its own major officers of its choosing in the key top positions. They are less likely to overlook it if White says the wrong thing publicly. White is likely to publicly come off like a company president as opposed to the figure he’s been in the past. He’s likely to be far more guarded publicly, which really he has been over the past year.

    Fertitta’s replacement in steering the ship will have different types of high-level business experience in aspects of their own expertise, but they won't have the fight business knowledge that Fertitta picked up from working in the trenches for 15 years and learning through trial-and-error. This will also play into the dynamics going forward when it comes to settling differences in ideas about direction.

    With so much at stake, corporate ownership of a very unique business will change things. There is dealing with fighters, their egos, their management and insecurities and short shelf-lives. There are similarities to the entertainment business and the sports business, but MMA is its own unique entity. It's not football where there are ways to learn, courses to take, experience at the lower level to be gained, before moving up the ranks into top decision-making positions. This is a business where very few have learned it from the ground up and have any experience in a major decision-making capacity.

    There is the ability to recognize stars early on and give them their platform. A huge part of Rousey and McGregor's success is that White and Fertitta spotted their potential early. But that's only a small part of the equation. Both had great success in winning fights in dynamic fashion, which made those decisions as much lucky as intuitive. Rousey and McGregor were also tireless promoters, at least at first, for both themselves and the brand. There is skill in matchmaking, and almost nobody has experience in this unique sport on how to navigate those waters. There is the balance in presenting fights that the public will buy with keeping a semblance of legitimate sports competition. There is the ability to make the big fights, and deal with the inevitabilities of major injures and suspensions changing plans at the last minute.

    From day one, White and Fertitta worked alongside each other and learned together from going through similar battles and experiences. They could jump on deals and make changes in one discussion. In a corporate environment, things change, and have to go through more channels, and more second-guessing.

    In time, White will be working with people whose experiences come from other businesses, and not the fight business. What works in other businesses won't necessarily work in this one. And what used to work in this one may not work in the same way due to landscape changes. A big part of the future of the company depends of the people in charge and their abilities to coexist. It also depends on charges in the world that they have no control over, and being able to make the right moves a those changes take place.

    Another big question is the one every fighter is probably wondering, which has to do with compensation.

    The $4 billion price tag alone speaks of how significant a business UFC has become. Yet its fighters earn 12 to 14 percent of total gross revenue, a fraction of the cut of the pie that athletes in most major sports earn. The few top stars can make millions per fight, but the vast majority of UFC fighters struggle to make it, and their plight is far different from major league athletes in most of the major sports, even though they have to work extremely hard training in a variety of sports and sustain a high level of physical and mental punishment. Given the money involved with the sport, and its profit margins, its participants are grossly underpaid.

    The ability to keep fighter pay low that enabled the UFC to be profitable in a bad year like 2014, and made it so attractive to investors. The feeling is with investment company ownership that there will be even more pressure to keep profit margins high.

    Employees are nervous, and rightly so. They had been told throughout the build to UFC 200 that all the media stories were false. Some, because they were told it so often, believed it, including some of the highest ranking officials.

    Make no mistake about it. When it comes to the true history of the UFC, this sale will rank right there with the original concept of the UFC, the Fertittas original purchase and the first television deal with Spike, as the most important moments in company history. It is a new era, and nobody knows what that means. But if I had to guess, it will change from cowboy to corporate.
     
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  45. NP13

    NP13 MC OG
    Donor
    East Carolina PiratesAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsCarolina PanthersWashington Football TeamCarolina HurricanesAvengers

    you're right, it is long.
     
    Danny Greene likes this.
  46. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Jax Teller and Truman like this.
  47. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Missouri TigersSt. Louis CardinalsChicago BullsSt. Louis BluesEvertonBook Club

    Who coulda seen that coming?!?!?!
     
    Jax Teller and DeToxRox like this.
  48. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
    Chicago CubsChicago BullsChicago BearsChicago BlackhawksIllinois Fightin' IlliniLiverpool

  49. Quick

    Quick We ain't no puppies
    Florida State SeminolesAtlanta BravesChicago BearsLiverpool

    Lol... Lo fucking L
     
  50. Jake Scott

    Jake Scott Well-Known Member
    Staff Donor
    Jacksonville Jaguars

    No way... Not possible.