The Citadel/Maester conspiracy (all book spoilers)

Discussion in 'Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)' started by andres 3000, Feb 12, 2012.

  1. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    i've been reading some of the forums on westeros.org and some posters over there have a theory that it was the citadel that was behind the dragons dying out and the end of house targaryen. anyone know more about this?
     
  2. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    I definitely think we're about to find out that there's some shady stuff going on at the Citadel. not sure if it's related to killing the dragons though.
     
  3. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    the stuff i've been reading is pretty deep and i don't believe some of it. some of the conspiracy theorists claim that the maesters, at the command of the archmaesters at the citadel, were advising their respective lords to raise up against the targaryens. great houses rarely married into one another, but in one year you have a stark betrothed to a tully, a baratheon to a stark, a tully to a lannister, all while eddard and robert are being fostered at the vale.
     
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  4. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    that's a pretty good point.

    link to the thread?
     
  5. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    just started reading about Varys, and two things that jump out to me immediately is 1. doesn't Varys use magic? didn't Tyrion discover that he used a counter gravity spell to move the bed and get to the secret passage in the Red Keep? and 2. if Varys is helping rid the world of dragons and the Targaryens, why would he be trying to clear the way for Aegon's return? even if he is an impostor, their plan still seems to be to unite him with Dany, right?

    I'm gonna keep reading though. Sundays are so boring without football.
     
  6. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    how do they know so much about Rickard and Maester Walys?
     
  7. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    that's what seemed so odd and wrong to me. i know lady ryswell hated maester walys and called maesters grey rats. her conversation to theon about rickard's "southron ambitions" seem to be the only basis for this
     
  8. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    yea unless there is some other writing that I'm not aware of, I feel like they're making a shitload of assumptions.
     
  9. Cawgs or Gie!

    Cawgs or Gie! The next Jordy Nelson, obviously.
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    Tyrion was making a joke. Shae said it magically rose from the ground. Tyron said sarcastically that it was a counterweight spell. He just meant that there was an unseen counterweight that would be engaged when varys pulled a lever.
     
  10. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    yea, there was no way varys used magic there
     
  11. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    wrong thread
     
  12. Spontaneous Cumbustion

    Spontaneous Cumbustion Well-Known Member
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    Great choice of icon
     
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  13. Dan Patrick

    Dan Patrick Well-Known Member

    lol at the ppl on that website that act this is written history. Its a really good story but jeez some ppl take it way to far.
     
  14. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
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    you're not one of us
     
  15. Swt

    Swt Well-Known Member
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    You need to slow your roll, basada
     
  16. ColeTrickle

    ColeTrickle tmb scares me to death
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    I just posted this in the book 5 thread but I forgot about this part from the end of book 4 about Marwyn.

     
  17. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    i totally forgot about that. the conspiracy is so much easier to believe because of that
     
  18. ColeTrickle

    ColeTrickle tmb scares me to death
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    Plus I feel like most maesters are anti-magic. Luwin was always shooting down Nan's stories. Aemon was definitely unique in his embracing old stories and magic.
     
  19. Cawgs or Gie!

    Cawgs or Gie! The next Jordy Nelson, obviously.
    Donor

    I've seen that too, and I think it is tied in with the quote that keeps coming up about how sorcery is a sword without a sheath. Dragons bring magic/sorcery. Magic/sorcery are impossible to harness once unleashed, and is therefore a huge danger to the world. Kill dragons, kill magic. Kill dragons, remove a huge danger to humanity.

    The best example in our lives is Religious leaders trying to stop scientific discovery (stem cells, cloning, etc.), which would put the archmaesters on the wrong side in my opinion.

    While sorcery may be dangerous, experimentation and learning may lead to methods of controlling it, which would be of a greater long term benefit to humanity. Marwyn is like a Galileo or Copernicus of his time.
     
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  20. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
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    ZOLTAN
     
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  21. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    just noticed another small detail that I found interesting. when Ghost leads Jon to the dragonglass near the Fist of the First Men, Jon remarks that it's called dragonglass, but the Maesters call it obsedian. interesting that the Maesters go out of their way to call it something that does not refer to dragons.
     
  22. ColeTrickle

    ColeTrickle tmb scares me to death
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    GRRM trying to make us think that scene wasn't significant. Ghost done found the Horn of Joramun.
     
  23. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    well yea, that too. but I was just referring to it in the context of the maester conspiracy theory.
     
  24. ColeTrickle

    ColeTrickle tmb scares me to death
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    Yeah it's funny I never really caught the Maesters angle until I went back and read about it online
     
  25. ChileanNole

    ChileanNole Soccer Expert
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    interesting...will read those linked threads from westeros. I always had a feeling that The Citadel would have a bigger impact in the overall story
     
  26. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    a lot of stuff there is fan fic being based as canon so be careful what you read
     
  27. ChileanNole

    ChileanNole Soccer Expert
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    oh i know, those people are crazy lol thanks for the heads up tho
     
  28. jorge

    jorge Apparently hates Star Wars
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    What do you mean?
     
  29. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    Some posters believe their theories so much they believe them to be absolute fact. I'm not saying they're baseless, but they believe them as if they were absolute facts
     
  30. jorge

    jorge Apparently hates Star Wars
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    Okay. Thanks. I'll keep that in mind.
     
  31. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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  32. jorge

    jorge Apparently hates Star Wars
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    After reading up this I'm thinking its more likely than not.
     
  33. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    this is why I desperately want a Marwyn POV
     
  34. GBG_24

    GBG_24 Y'all ready to smash some fruit?!?
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    Didn't Ned read, in the book about the lineages of all the houses in Westeros, about multiple times when Baratheons married Lannisters? He figured Joff wasn't a Baratheon because all the prior times that Baratheons and Lannisters hooked up the Baratheon dark hair was the dominant gene, plus all of Robert's bastards had dark hair. Do we really know that it was uncommon for powerful houses to intermarry?
     
  35. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    yes because no lannister married a baratheon before robert and cersei. with the exception of some targaryens who married martells and some smaller houses, the great houses never married
     
  36. Arrec Bardwin

    Arrec Bardwin The purest of hebrews
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    That isn't true.
     
  37. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    of course i may be wrong, but what are the exceptions?
     
  38. LT8

    LT8 Well-Known Member

    Catelyn Tully and Ned, Lisa Tully and Jon Arryn. Couple more examples but those just off the top of my head. But yeah most of the time the great houses didn't intermarry they strengthened their own position by marrying bannermen.
     
  39. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    lol you're making his point for him.
     
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  40. three stacks

    three stacks sluggish, lazy, stupid, and unconcerned
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    the only exception i can find of a great house marrying into each other before the events surrounding robert's rebellion (other than targaryen/martell) is when robert's grandfather married a targaryen
     
  41. OTM

    OTM Can I interest you in a game of Online Wizards?
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    Never though about it that way, when you hear about the older generations the great lords usually married the daughters of the lords that paid fealty to them (Mace tyrell's mom was a Redwyne, Ned's mother was a Flint ect). Interesting.
     
  42. OTM

    OTM Can I interest you in a game of Online Wizards?
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    The quote is sorcery is a sword without a hilt, and it's not unique to asoiaf. It means that it is difficult to wield as well as being extremely dangerous for the user as well as the intended target.
     
  43. jorge

    jorge Apparently hates Star Wars
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    They never mentioned that it was unusual when Oberyn and Elia were going to marry Jaime and Cersei.
     
  44. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    I feel like that plays into the theory considering it was all happening around the same time.
     
  45. zeberdee

    zeberdee you can't pause toast
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    and I think it's ridiculous that the Martell's thought Oberyn had a realistic shot at marrying Cersei. he wasn't even the heir to Dorne. Tywin would never go for that.
     
  46. jorge

    jorge Apparently hates Star Wars
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    From what I gather, Joanna had Tywin by the balls because of how much he loved her. It was her that arranged it and Tywin only rejected it because Joanna died before their(Edit: The Martells) arrival... I'm guessing thats when he got the illusions of grandeur of her marrying Rhaegar.