New HBO Series: Westworld

Discussion in 'TV Board' started by Jack Parkman, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. Babou

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    Lost in all this madness is Hale recruiting the writer and using Dolores dad to steal data out of the park.

    Something has to go wrong with him, and/or tie in with whatever Bernard whispered to him in cold storage.
     
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  2. Nug

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    Did Hale pick Dolores' dad in cold storage on purpose? Couldn't really tell. Would seem awfully coincidental that they decide on him among all those bodies.
     
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  3. Babou

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    Thinking out loud.

    I wonder if the phrases of course, and of course not mean anything for the bots.

    Seems like they're said a lot.
     
  4. TLAU

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    New Whore is greaaaaaaat. If you're gonna take Elsie from me, I'll take this as a consolation. But yes that was definitely Elsie that Bernardodipshit was choking out in the flashback before Ford erased his memory. After a few hours of looking through my Elsie scrapbook and listening to the mixed tape I made her, I attempted to slit my wrists with a butter knife, failed, and ended up just smoking weed and drinking wine until I cried myself to sleep. I'm over her now.

    MiB = William crowd feeling good or bad after that episode... how many timelines is that these days? 4-5? I do think that IF MiB turns out to be William - they do the reveal via Flashback. Someone having a crazy flashback and all the sudden it's William there about to kill/shoot/stab whoever.

    Striiiiiiiking similarities in the conversation of Theresa's death vs. conversation of Arnold's death. "theresa was loyal. And Careful. all of this feels extremely unlike her." (sounds like what Ford told Bernard about Arnold's death)
    Ford goes on after that about cancer in an organization and needing to cut it out. Very possible that he was responsible for Arnold's death now in the same manner :twocents: so much passive aggressive two faced commenting in that whole scene with Stubbs, Hale and Ford.

    The Maeve scenes are kinda losing me a little too. I think they just spend too much time with her conversations with the combover tech. she gives too many try-hard speeches. BUT HEY IT'S OKAY BECAUSE SHE'S NAKED so I am perfectly fine with Thandie giving as many nude speeches as they give her. Just the story itself is moving too slow for me.

    Random Shit:
    Think it's weird to have the chick in the welcome/advertising video be a host in the park as part of a narrative instead of still working the office. MiB's reaction to her being there seems like she hasn't been an office host in a long time. I think it's odd they would have moved her to the park. could have been they moved her to the park a while ago or she's one of Ford's hosts he reassigned for the Wyatt narrative since she appeared to be bait for the ambush on MiB

    Maeve looks like a fucking raptor after she slices Comb-over's throat
     
    #1904 TLAU, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  5. TLAU

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    oh and that whole extreme catalyst I've been hoping for if they end up going the MiB=William route...

    looks like the Dolores gang bang scene may actually happen... previews made it look like they were going family style on her and tied william to a chair and made him watch. I could buy him turning into an emotionless psychopath if they tie him up, gang rape the robot love of his life and then kill her or something.

    it even showed what looked like a shot of Logan fucking someone. that would be icing on the cake to push William over the brink
     
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  6. Nug

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    On that same note, thought it was supremely fucking stupid for William and Dolores to flag down that first convoy that came through hoping they'd give them a ride back. Did William really think that would end well considering where the fuck they were?

    Will be interested to know how Logan got free/joined up with the Confederados.
     
  7. TLAU

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    Dolores question for the multi-timeline, MiB=William experts, as I have completely given up on trying to theorize what the fuck is going on in Dolores storyline(s)

    So there's William and her in, lets just say 30 years ago from today: 1986

    The flashback of walking through the town / flashbacks she has while with William from the church scenes when Arnold talks to her = before Arnold died? ie - 1982??? So people are saying all of those flashbacks we've been seeing where the church wasn't buried and then the scene in the park where they were doing turing tests are 1982.

    And then any scenes which she is completely alone are in the present 2016? Like the river scene it went from her seeing the body in the water and turning around and being alone... that's her in 2016 real quick then back to 1986 with William and then the next scene she goes back to 1982?

    That is some serious "I'm going to fuck with you" writing/directing if I have ever seen it. Completely plausible but also implies that she's making this trip for the 3rd fucking time in 30 years.

    1st time: Arnold still alive and maybe this was the Bernardold (actual Arnold before he died was what we were seeing in the Bernard talks) secluded room chats - 1982
    2nd time: Arnold is dead but his "code" is talking to her this time when she is with William - 1986
    3rd time: She's completely by herself and takes the same damn route as 1986 and just happens to have the same Arnold "code" telling her how to get there? - 2016

    I think that them getting nabbed by confederales throws a HUGE kink into this line of thinking because - per the conversation with the kid by the river - Logan told them there was a man and woman that double-crossed them in cahoots with lawrence. How's the Confederales know to ambush them in 2016 when there's no William and no Logan there to tell them to ambush the train??? Somehow **in at least the 1986 and 2016 timelines she has to get off the train and go way off the beaten path to find that random river town.
     
    #1907 TLAU, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  8. TLAU

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  9. Nug

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    Would really like to wait 2 weeks and watch episode 9 and 10 in one 2 1/2 hour binge session, but I just know I don't have that kind of willpower.
     
  10. je ne suis pas ici

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    The strongest piece of evidence this week pointing to William and the Man in Black being one and the same is that the Man recognizes Angela — the blonde host who appears to be one of Wyatt’s victims, but instead turns out to be one of his followers — from a long-ago visit, and says he thought they retired her. Angela (played by Talulah Riley) was the same woman who welcomed William to the park and helped get him outfitted back in “Chestnut.”
     
  11. Professor Moriarty

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    I don't think she traveled to the church town in 1982, she's from there and at that time it was the only town in Westworld.

    I'm confused by your Logan and 2016 hypothesis. Logan, Lawrence aka El Lazo, William, Dolores and the buried church with the ambush and ghost nation are all 1986 timeline.

    In 2016 she's by herself and there are no bodies when she turns around, she looks back at the river and then back on shore and the bodies returned.

    I bet she buries her gun in 1986 at her family barn because we hear "remember" and things get all fucka after that.
     
  12. je ne suis pas ici

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  13. TLAU

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    So in 2016 she is going on the exact same path as she did with William in 1986, correct?

    In 1986 LOGAN tells the Confederales in Pariah that William, Dolores, and Lawrence double-crossed them and are on a train headed ______, they ambush them, and that sets Dolores off the beaten path that gets her where she is now (by the river). And she apparently did that before in 1982 per flashbacks

    In 2016 how does she end up making that exact same path when LOGAN isn't there to tip them off and tell the Confederales to ambush the train? Just coincidental? The shot of her in the train by herself at the end of episode ~5 (where william and lawrence disappear from the screen) - so we know she's on the train. What made her get off and find her way to that river? She got an Arnold code GPS in her brain giving her the turn by turn directions?

    ***If you don't think she traveled to the church town in the OG journey of 1982 - then this all is shot to shit because when she's with william and has flashbacks (presumably to the original journey) She's wearing a blue dress and tan fanny pack - watch the brothel scene (where she sees herself in the crowd) and the River Town scene. With william (and the 2016 trips) she's in Khakis and a striped button down. So she 100% was in the church town with the turing tests in 1982 if we're saying she made this trip in the past before william. And it wasn't just because she was from there - she's been having Flashbacks while with William regularly of her original journey in 1982.

    it's down to either - she made the trip 1982 in the blue dress, pre-william and then William is 2016. Or she made the trip 1982 alone, 1986 w william, and 2016 is making it again alone.
     
    #1913 TLAU, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  14. TLAU

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    not sure if that is explained well enough it's gotten to the point where explaining something is a headache.

    wondering if that turing test town is Escalante by the way.
     
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  15. TC

    TC Peter, 53, from Toxteth
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    They left MIB tied to something and Wyatt's gang of True Detective beasts are closing in. Is he in any danger? Seems like they meant for that to seem particularly terrifying as a cliffhanger but what's the big deal if they can't harm him
     
  16. Professor Moriarty

    Professor Moriarty Well-Known Member
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    I'm saying she didn't travel to the church town, she's from there ie created there during the testing phase (blue dress). The Spanish girl also tells her "I'm from the same place you're from" and Dolores stated "she's home". I don't think she traveled from Sweatwater to church town in 1982.

    I think all the flashbacks she's having are a mix of editing and manipulation with a parallel story telling between 1986 and 2016 and at the end when she reaches home to 1982.

    I need to go back and watch but isn't she separated from William in all the flashbacks where she sees herself (minus the 1982 scene)?
     
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  17. TLAU

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    would love to hear Reddit's explanation of this that I just saw in a rewatch. When William gets her to chill after the river town turing test flashback and she's about to kill herself. he says she's having bad memories and she has a flashback of the town-massacre.

    [​IMG]

    looks like our welcome to Westworld host... so Pre-William she was a host in the park, then William-time she's a host-employee, and then in MiB time she's in Wyatt's crew? Dolores seeing "memories" of the turing test is really fucky. Wouldn't she have been a part of that? And in the same flashback the town where they're doing turing tests gets massacred? While they are just testing out the robots... pre-opening???
     
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  18. CUtigers

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    Dolores=
    Wyatt?
    reddit seems to think so
     
    #1918 CUtigers, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  19. TLAU

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    would have to go back and watch the brothel scene again. she's away from William but I am pretty sure she saw herself walking in the crowd in the streets in a blue dress, while wearing the khaki and button down. and then again inside the brothel - blue dress.

    If "both" Dolores's are in khakis and a button down in both of these Pariah scenes - then she didn't make the trip in 1982 and just was "born in" river town like you said. However if she's in a blue dress in those flashbacks then that starts poking some fresh holes in everything we know :twocents:
     
  20. Babou

    Babou ocelot
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    I guess we're supposed to assume she either remembers where to go or hears voices, and we just aren't shown every part of the journey. :idk:
     
  21. TLAU

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    current narrative's story is rooted in truth
    I think the turing test town from that flashback is Escalante

    so maybe in 1982 she was the original villain that has now been created again in Ford's 2016 narrative as Wyatt. but in the William time I don't see how it's possible. And in the MiB time it's 100% not her or all these multiple timeline theories are wrong
     
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  22. NYGator

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    she knew sylvester and Felix were cats...I mean hosts, so she had control on some level.

    BTW, love the fact that one of them hated the bird.
     
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  23. CUtigers

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    Yeah, I've yet to really read into it too much. Just thought it was interesting. Trying to piece things together on my own, and I'm lost.
     
  24. NYGator

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    Yes
    Yes, I wrote that earlier and removed it, because if true that is a big spoiler. Also saw references to some of Dolores visions of her being from Arnold's perspective.
     
  25. je ne suis pas ici

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    when dolores was riding back bitch on the horse

    her ass...

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. CUtigers

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    What I am gathering, though, is there is 3 timelines being shown. Right? Before Arnold's death, after Arnold's death, and then present time. Same thread on reddit talking about who they think dolores is, thinks that dolores killed Arnold.
     
  27. TLAU

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    can't be a spoiler if it's just a theory. there's no reason to spoiler who that theory implies Dolores is...
     
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  28. CUtigers

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    I put mine in a spoiler just in case.
     
  29. TLAU

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    I think the first part about 3 timelines has to be true. Basically my stance as of right now:

    1982 - Arnold is alive (and is Bernard or he "looks like bernard). That's the real arnold having those talks in secret with Dolores where she read the book and stuff and talked about his son. Dolores "finds herself" and is Wyatt - that flashback massacre in the church town is Escalante and she's the villain.

    1986/2016 - There's an actual host created as "Wyatt" and she's on farm duty picking up cans forever. This is why when Teddy has flashbacks in 2016, he sees another person being Wyatt and has the natives, union, etc story to go with it. He wasn't there for the original 1982 Dolores massacre and only knows the 1986 Wyatt one.

    The "Dolores killed Arnold" eh idk I would say the favorite in Vegas right now would be Ford :twocents: Arnold was just another "cancer in the company that had to be removed" like Theresa. Both of their deaths were strange per people that knew them and knew how careful they were.
     
    #1929 TLAU, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
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  30. TC

    TC Peter, 53, from Toxteth
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    Here's my thing with Dolores and I'll put it in a spoiler just in case
    I want to have sex with her robot ass
     
  31. NYGator

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    I get it, but I felt it was a surprise that I would rather have. Agreed, theories are open game.
     
  32. CUtigers

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    Ford would be my guess right now, too. Unless Arnold was the one who got her to do it, trying to get the park shut down.
     
  33. NYGator

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    My money is on Arnold, but tight odds. The one thing that leads me to believe it is Ford referencing Arnold going crazy. Nobody would need to know that info. Everything is buried in the past
     
  34. CUtigers

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    I'm back and forth on it, honestly.
     
  35. Clown Baby

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    This is actually weak evidence when you consider that she could have greeted William and the MIB independent of one another when they entered the park at their respective times
     
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  36. je ne suis pas ici

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    it does have that 'it is really large, and looks rather mom-ish, but GD i want to get lost in that sea of butt' feeling to it
     
  37. TLAU

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    would basically mean Arnold told Dolores to kill him? I didn't think his goal was originally to get the park shut down. NYGator the "arnold going crazy" could have been him stealing hosts away to have secret chats trying to unlock their self-awareness (dolores sessions) and Ford sees him being successful at it via Dolores's journey and conclusion in the church town massacre. So to keep the park where it can actually be the park and not some Park of Massacres, he wipes Dolores's memory, relegates her to can duty, and offs Arnold before he can do it to any other hosts.
     
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  38. NYGator

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    I'm just leaning. Really could go either way.
     
    #1938 NYGator, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  39. Clown Baby

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    To me, the most interesting part of MIB's spiel to Teddy was not his backstory, but his brief explanation of the maze. It sounds like not only does whatever is in there have power to give life but also to take it.

    In short, MIB is a Texas fan and wants to die but there's only one place in the park where that is possible.
     
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  40. TLAU

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    yea i was just laying out option B. at this point anything could go either way or some new fucked up way we hadn't even thought about.
     
  41. TLAU

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    the maeve scene during MiB's backstory is quite confuse. so he lays out the timeline for a few things

    30 years of marriage - Wife dies "a little over a year ago" ~2015
    His daughter gives him the speech after the funeral that makes him go kill Maeve and her daughter, results in Maeve getting her new job as Madame which ties to the fact that she's only been doing it for a little over a year.

    confusing part:
    In the scene where she goes crazy and ford erases her memory she uses the Bernardobot line "the pain is all I have left of her" but then he erases her memory, basically talking away that bit of sentience she's developed :twocents: and THEN she grabs the knife and tries to kill herself? And they just shrug that off and plug her back into the park?
     
  42. Fidelio

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    probably my fave part of the series so far. Ford to Bernard:

    "there is no threshold that makes us greater than the sum of our parts. there is no inflection point at which we become alive. we cant define consciousness because consciousness does not exist. humans fancy that there's something special about the way we perceive the world and yet, we live in loops as tight and as closed as the hosts do - seldom questioning our choices. content, for the most part, to be told what to do next. no, my friend, you're not missing anything at all."
     
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  43. Babou

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    Almost like he's talking to Arnold :warn:
     
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  44. Larry Sura

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    Ford is such a fucked up person...if he's even a person.
     
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  45. Fidelio

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    I get the sense that Bernard will flip on Ford somehow in the end
     
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  46. TLAU

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    Would be a sweet ironic turn if Bernard becomes a self-aware host and kills Ford... created in the likeness of the guy whose entire goal was to make a robot become self-aware
     
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  47. Nizz

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    definitely seeing a Shakespearean ending to this..
     
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  48. Oracle of Omahawg

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    I am still trying to keep an open mind on the timeline theories, but leaning to multiple timelines like TLAU has laid out. And while I appreciate seeing Thandie's lovely nude body every episode now, this has to be the worst storyline in the show. The problem I have is that there is no way that Felix can be that stupid. I mean I really don't get what he thinks is going to happen in the end. He should have nuked her programming when he had the chance. She now has the powers that Ford has to rewrite stories and control hosts.
     
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  49. zeberdee

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    it makes sense if Felix is a host and Maeve knows it. pretty sure we saw his face in ep 7 when they were looking at the sketches in the cabin.
     
  50. Emmy Rossum

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    The dialogue in that scene made it sound like both of those guys were hosts