You asked how to do it and that's how you do it. It's complicated. Just buy a bunch of bitcoins and we'll short them
There have been issues and rumors with China for awhile. They can ban ICOs or regulate it....I don't really care. The most likely outcome is regulation. And is it a shock to anyone that a country that bans google and facebook would have problems with cryptocurrency? If anything, a dip in the markets due to China news (or whatever else caused the dip) is a good of a time as any to buy in. This does nothing imo to affect long-term outlook. https://www.coindesk.com/chinas-ico-ban-understandable-reasonable-probably-temporary/
The value of bitcoin may fall through the floor, sure, but the technology of cryptocurrency as a whole is the future. Eventually, all information will pass from person to person and from business to business through block chain and distributed ledger technology. It is simply a matter of time. The technology behind cryptos is how that information will be sent and received. You're not buying a Ford vehicle or stock in Ford. You're buying the idea of the assembly line that produces all vehicles.
I agree with you 100% that it is the future. I just don't think that future has to be bitcoin. It has the most popular brand if you will but that's about it. Who is to say that banks wont come up with something better? or other currencies? The fact that a bitcoin cant realistically be used in every day transactions (I've read it takes ~ 1 minute per transaction?) will prevent it from ever becoming main stream. When you have people buying bitcoin for no other reason than the name bitcoin, it leads me to think that its very bubbly.
I think you have a very basic understanding of what it is and what it's for. A bank coming up with something is basically the antithesis of the purpose of bitcoin. Here's some recommended reading: https://fee.org/articles/what-gave-bitcoin-its-value/
You're right in that it's not likely bitcoin that will win the crypto battle but it's even more unlikely that it will be something created by any current financial institution. The whole purpose of cryptocurrencies is to make peer to peer transaction's safe and secure without the need of a third party. Any bank is going to want their hand in it so people will avoid coins they create. And while I do believe bitcoin will eventually fall, we are nowhere near where that is going to happen.
Exactly, the entire reason for cryptocurrencies is to create an economic system without the needs of banks to validate transactions. Any coins they create will never gain adoption as that's what we are trying to escape from.
When you say "we", you realize you're part of a very small minority, right? The vast majority of people see a Chase or BoA logo as a big warm blanket for them to wrap up their money in. Most people don't understand cryptocurrencies and only associate them with online criminals and hackers. Will that change? Maybe, but it's going to take an awful lot of time. As of now, a cryptocurrency with a mainstream bank logo would be much more successful than any of the ones out right now bc the average consumer would be much more comfortable using it bc they have built in trust in that logo.
And as colonel_forbin said, blockchain is here to stay. If you don't believe in BTC's use case or adoption, that's fine. But there are plenty of other incredibly interesting companies in the industry. Ripple is basically the pro-bank/govt company that is working with them to send and settle massive amounts of money for fractions of the cost and time that it currently takes. https://www.americanbanker.com/news/inside-ripples-plan-to-make-money-move-as-fast-as-information FCT is in the data storage, insurance, mortgage space. https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/guides/factom-past-present-and-future/ Spoiler "We are working with the DHS [Department of Homeland Security] to provide audit trails for data collection on U.S. borders. Certainly, our technology will ensure sensors are secure against those that would tamper with them. Our technology will also provide audit trails that ensure other parties that the data collected is properly disclosed when required, the integrity has been maintained, and that data held back as irrelevant is provably irrelevant (not collected within some timeframe, or at some location). We are working with the Gates Foundation to ensure medical records are maintained, and available to parties providing care in developing countries to individuals that may have been treated by many different organizations in the past. This application has to be available when needed, transportable to remote locations without Internet access, secure, private, and require little in hardware and human resources. We are working on data management applications to ensure that mortgages can be processed faster, cheaper, and within the current regulatory framework. This involves auditing and tracking data collection from many different parties over time about information covering every aspect of a mortgage. Income verification, property history and maintenance, taxes paid/owed, payment histories, property surveys, zoning, etc., all produce many documents that must be reviewed in the course of issuing and maintaining a mortgage. You can think BTC is overvalued while still being bullish on others.
Cite? And also lofuckingl. Maybe you should tell these mainstream banks to come up with a cryptocurrency then if it's so easy. Surely someone at those trillion dollar companies would appreciate your insight into what you appear to think is a $65 billion idea.
And you're only talking about people in this country which is very shortsighted. Cryptos real value is in it's ability to do transactions across the globe without the massive fees that financial institutions impose. Yes a crypto from a bank right now would be largely more popular in the U.S. right now because people would trust it more initially. But humans are greedy and if one coin allows you to send back money to your family in Guatemala for no cost while the other is taking a couple bucks off each transaction, you're going to use the one that doesn't cost anything. Cryptos from banks will never be the one's that win the crypto battle because in the end these will be adopted first in third world countries that don't have the financial systems set up that we do and then will spread to us.
This was part of my original point. I don't doubt block chain is here to stay. But who is to say that a Ripple, Litecoin, etherium, or bankofamerica cash wont turn out to be the dominating force in the industry? The score is far from settled and i think there is a bubble in bitcoin because its the most popular brand if you will.
For the reasons in my post that you quoted, I take issue with you putting ripple, ethereum, and others in the same category of btc. They do wildly different things and aren't even remotely close to being the same industry.
And again I'd recommend this as at least entry level reading: https://fee.org/articles/what-gave-bitcoin-its-value/ Reading the btc white paper is also a good idea.
I think the point that is trying to be made is that when you put the mainstream bank logo on it that takes away the entire appeal of cryptocurrency altogether. why the hell would that be successful when you could just get a debit/credit card with the same company? Makes absolutely no sense. if and when there's a transition to all forms of non-cash payments being done with cryptocurrency then you may have a point. but as of right now: older generations don't want anything to do with cryptocurrency because they're fine with bank cards. younger generations that actually use cryptocurrency absolutely do not have that "built in trust" with the banking industry that you seem to think they do... Fedcoin is already a thing in development. This is an interesting interview to watch even if the guy ends up being wrong https://secure.caseyresearch.com/chain?cid=MKT336710&eid=MKT337378&snaid=&step=start#AST68751
Are you really going to argue that the average consumer would feel more comfortable using their Chase card than Dogecoin? You're asking for a cite for that? I never said it would be easy, just saying I don't think it would automatically fail like he suggested. Sue in Nebraska is much more likely to learn about it if she sees it on here BoA account than she is to take the time to learn about them and learn how to source them. I mean, you literally have people coming to this thread asking how to work cryptos.
This is a large assumption. Somehow cryptos are going to have to educate the masses about how to use their product and ensure people that they are safe. Most people are willing to pay a buck or two to ensure their transaction wi ll be completed. Right now more people in the US use Western Union and Moneygram, who have ridiculous fees, than use cryptos. Will the day come that Publix has a Bitcoin desk in their store? Idk, but that's the type stuff it's going to take for it to be accepted.
he was already in here in the early pages talking down to the OP and urging him to sell at $915/btc numerous times. His tune hasn't changed a bit and even after last weeks decline the value is still 4x higher than it was in the OP
I asked you to cite that most people associate it with online criminals and hackers. That's clearly what is bolded when I quoted your post. I have no interest in debating comfortableness in using a chase card v. crypto, and for the sake of this thread, I hope no one else does either. Here's what 5 seconds of googling found me on banks and bitcoin: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...irst-to-offer-bitcoin-to-its-richest-clients/ https://www.coindesk.com/banks-offering-cryptocurrency-services-a-new-reality-is-arriving/ Again, in what is now a ~$135 billion market, don't you maybe think that the banks (who are all completely aware of crypto and have been for years) would've decided to enter this market if they thought they could?
Im going to give this a resounding no. Rumor has it that it takes ~1 minute to process a bitcoin transaction. Will never work in a crowded environment.
The cost of each transaction would be the price you pay for the trust / insurance etc. Most people are willing to pay this especially considering it is a small fee and comes with several other benefits that banks offer.
You also bolded the last sentence in my post talking about consumer's trust in banks. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on why banks will or won't get involved. I merely commented on someone else that said they'd auto fail bc "we" are trying to escape them.
if by "takes off" you mean all current banking is transitioned to cryptocurrency - it probably won't be good for the banking industry. if that article is to be believed it could cost a lot of people a lot of money in savings during the transition. And in the end what do you have? A different form of currency that banks dip their hands into for fees etc... which is part of the appeal of current cryptocurrency. So you're basically left with a bunch of people angry that the govt/banking industry just "lost" some/a lot of their savings creating a new currency, and people are just supposed to start trusting the federal govt's new currency that they were previously "afraid of (per dbl)"... you honestly believe people trust the federal govt to act in their best interest now? You think the process above would help that?
Of course they will but we had to do the same with the internet and smart phones etc. Just because we have to educate people on it doesn't mean that it's not likely to happen. And of course there are more people using those right now, because more people understand them. We're still in the infantile stage of development of cryptos but mistrust of banks and financial institutions grow each year and consumers will continue to search for other and more importantly cheaper means of dealing with money. And nowhere in my post did I ever say "we" are trying to escape banks" just that's what the purpose of cryptocurrency is.
BTC is not meant to function for micropayments to pay for your groceries. If the use case is a BTC stand instead of western union to send money to your family back home, what is wrong with a 1 minute processing time for something that currently takes much longer than that and costs much more?
sending money from one coinbase account to another is insanely easy. the same people you're talking about using WU and MG are probably doing it in an archaic fashion like the Publix desk you mentioned instead of using the WU App on their smartphone. Literally nobody investing in BTC cares about that demographic because they are going to die soon.
They would auto-fail because cryptocurrency was created in spite of banks. No one would buy into a currency created by the people they are trying to avoid.
I see that you are a believer and i respect that. Not going to argue about it because its pointless. My gut instinct is telling me this is bubble territory. If it gets much higher i might just get off my ass and figure out how to short it. Good luck to you though.
That's true but the beauty of blockchain technology is that you get that trust without needing to pay a fee for it. I get that next year we aren't going to be without these huge banks and everyone is using cryptos. But people in general trust themselves a lot more than they trust other people or institutions so if these currencies can offer them that ability to not have to deal with a third party. Eventually, they will take it. Also we're at the point in the economic cycle that we're due for another recession again and if the dollar tumbles since the Fed can't lower interest rates anymore then cryptos will become even more valuable.
If Chase or BoA were to make one and allow their customers to transfer money while using less fees, their millions and millions of customers would use it. Are the big banks willing to do that? It doesn't seem like it, but acting like the only people that would use a crypto are people that are rebelling against thg banks is just silly.
I don't think we're arguing. Literally I don't know anyone in the market who thinks they're going to start using BTC to pay for groceries at the checkout line.
Poor people don't have any place in a discussion about cryptocurrency to begin with. And what do you mean by "uneducated" like everyone without a college degree goes to Publix's western union counter to send money to people? Or are you using "uneducated" as another word for poor too? I'd be willing to bet a percentage of the cryptocurrency owners doesn't have a college degree. and if you mean "uneducated" in the sense of "doesn't know shit about cryptocurrency" all that takes is time and motivation. The motivation is simple - saving money. I've seen several places offer discounts for paying online with BTC. Someone told me last week there's a BTC Amazon type card that gives you a discount for paying with BTC on anything you buy at Amazon. I remember when people didn't "trust" using paypal to send money....
It's not about tin foil wearing guys are doing this in fear of the Illuminati. Cryptocurrency (Cc) is popular because it avoids fees, and the idea of being not tied down to a institution that has the main goal of making money off their money (I don't mean to make this seem as a tin-foil explanation, but more "it's my money and I'll control it). It also still takes away from the main goal of cryptocurrency as it would become "Hey Sally, you can go ahead and turn your checking account into our new cryptocuttency!". What is the gain for banks here? The only way for them to make money off of this would be to charge fees, which would once again take away from the one of the main ideas behind Cc. If Chase designs a currency that disables them from any profiting, allows the customers to remain completely anonymous, then yeah it could theoretically work. But I just don't see how it could possibly make sense for either parties.
You're the one that said the WU/MG in Publix demographic is going to die. That demographic, in general, is poor and uneducated. They are paying bills and/or sending money to someone. They don't know there are better/cheaper options. They don't have a bank account. They haven't heard of cryptocurrencies. That should be an ideal market for crytpos but you're saying nobody involved with BTC wants their market bc they are apparently all about to die. And why do poor people have no place in the discussion? Shouldn't they be concerned with pinching a few pennies here and there more than the rick guy that's ok with bank fees?
I wouldn't be shocked if a bank were to make one and charge fees but the fees are a fraction of what they currently are on traditional transfers. Think of it this way, the bank currently makes $5 off of you. They are better making $1 off of you than $0 off of you. I think a lot of people would be happy with going from $5 to $1 and would stay in bed with the bank. Of course idk if a bank could stay afloat making $1 rather than $5 so this could be a moot discussion.
My original comment is that those people using the Publix WU instead of the app on their phone are old/old-fashioned people. Old people die. Your original comment was that people are gonna need to see a WU-type Bitcoin kiosk/help desk in Publix to start sending money to people. So the other point of my comment is that very few people these days actually use those kiosks to send money, they use an app or the WU website. I'm not sure why you think someone that "doesn't have a bank account" would be an important demographic for anything related to Bitcoins. You're obviously referring to very very poor people and not people who are "1000s of $ of cash in the mattress" people. I'm kinda curious what percent of the population of adults in the US "don't have a bank account"...... if they're in that situation because they're too poor to have sufficient funds to require them then they don't have any bearing on Bitcoin value
It is for people that use the WU or MG app or website. Nobody that goes to goddamn publix customer service Western Union desk to send money is in the demographic that would give BTC the time of day
Which is definitely a big part of it and I agree. There isn't enough incentive for a bank to get the number of users needed for a Cc program to be profitable when you factor in the needs of the users they're trying to attract.
7% of the United States doesn't have a bank account. That's 24 million people. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/fdic-underbanked-cfpb/504881/
You're looking at this all wrong. This is not a short term thing. I don't care if Sue in Nebraska feels comfortable or uncomfortable right now. No one in the crypto industry does. This shit is in its infancy.