Once bullets are whizzing by your head, it's Rambo time. It's ok to be scared of basically anything up until that point.
2 “good guys with guns” accidentally fired them in schools on Tuesday Trump wants to arm teachers. Two accidental shootings in one day show that’s a dangerous idea. By Emily Stewart Mar 14, 2018, 1:50pm EDT As the Trump administration advocates for more guns in schools and allowing teachers to carry firearms, two separate incidents in Virginia and California on Tuesday in which trained school employees accidentally fired their weapons highlight the dangers of such a proposal. A teacher who is also a reserve police officer trained to use a gun accidentally discharged a firearm at Seaside High School in Monterey County, California, on Tuesday. According to the local outlet KSBW, Dennis Alexander’s gun went off around 1 pm while he was teaching a course about gun safety. He was pointing his gun at the ceiling when it went off, and pieces of the ceiling hit the ground. The local police department said no one suffered serious injuries, but one 17-year-old boy was harmed when fragments from the bullet hit his neck, the boy’s father, Fermin Gonzales, told KSBW. The boy’s parents only figured out what had happened when he returned home from school with blood on his shirt and bullet fragments on his neck. “He’s shaken up, but he’s going to be okay. I’m just pretty upset that no one told us anything and we had to call the police ourselves to report it,” the father told the TV station. In a separate incident in Alexandria, Virginia, on Tuesday, a school resource officer — a five-year veteran of the Alexandria Police Department — accidentally discharged his weapon while inside George Washington Middle School. No one, including the officer, was injured. “I just think it was an accident that happened, and we’re going to investigate it and find out, and we’re going to move forward,” Capt. D.C. Hayes told NBC Washington. The thing about good guys with guns is that they can be dangerous too The White House on Sunday unveiled its plan to combat school shootings following the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida, in February that left 17 people dead. Among its proposals is renewed support from President Donald Trump to arm teachers and other school employees. The president on Twitter said he believes arming teachers will serve as a “deterrent” to potential shooters. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos said in an interview with 60 Minutes aired on Sunday that giving teachers guns in the classroom “should be an option for states and communities to consider.” Trump’s daughter and White House adviser Ivanka Trump, in a February interview with NBC News, said that arming teachers “needs to be discussed.” (The National Rifle Association supports arming teachers too.) Tuesday’s incidents, in which two trained individuals accidentally fired their weapons, highlight the dangers of putting more guns in schools. As Vox’s German Lopez recently pointed out, there is no good research on the effect of arming teachers or the effect of putting more armed police or security in schools. Adults with guns in schools sometimes fire them accidentally Incidents like the two accidents on Tuesday have gotten more attention now that the Trump administration has proposed arming some teachers, putting more guns into school buildings. But they aren’t necessarily new — many incidents from the past suggest that putting guns in schools can lead to accidental shootings and even occasional injuries and deaths. Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control advocacy group, collects reports school shootings — including gunshots in a school or at a college that were fired accidentally, or cases in which no one was injured. Matching Everytown’s database to local media reports shows that in the past month alone, three guns belonging to adults were fired in school buildings: A Georgia high school teacher barricaded himself inside a classroom and fired a bullet into a window. A sheriff’s deputy in Florida shot himself while responding to a false alarm about school gunfire. A third-grader in Minnesota accidentally fired a school police officer’s gun. Three of these accidental shootings in one month is relatively high, although it’s not clear if that’s simply the result of increased reporting because Everytown’s database is based on local media reports. Still, this has happened before with some regularity. In 2016, a sheriff’s deputy fired his gun in a Michigan high school while testing a robotics machine, hitting a teacher in the neck, and a part-time correctional officer at an elementary school for a job interview at a Florida elementary school shot himself in the knee. In 2014, a teacher in Utah accidentally shot herself in the leg (and shattered a toilet) while at school. In 2013, a police officer assigned to a New York high school after the Sandy Hook shooting accidentally fired his weapon in a hallway. This adds to the evidence that putting more guns in schools could actually make gun violence worse: The problem in the US is that there are so many guns in circulation, which makes it easier for conflict to escalate to gun violence — or for guns to be mishandled and kill or injure bystanders.
There's not a moment in that video where that custodian or admin employee isn't right next to the cop or even leading him around campus. I can only imagine what their conversation was while they scrambled around. Not only did he not step in in any meaningful way to help anyone but the one guy there with a weapon, training and sworn oath to act, hid behind a POG janitor the whole time the shooting was going on. He deserves every bit of the hate he's getting.
Also helped that the student gunman had a handgun instead of an assault rifle. An SRO (which very few people are against) has a better shot of being effective when facing a similar weapon to what he's packing.
Imagine getting a hard-on while thinking a resource officer shooting a kid is some great societal victory or proof that all is well with more guns around schools.
Life is about shooting or getting shot; toughen up pussy. The greatest glory in life is to discharge your firearm in anger
I'm confused about the pushback against training select teachers in firearms and specific training for school shooter situations. The public high schools in my city have armed cops in the schools. By and large, people seem to think that's a good idea. Good, we have cops, trained cops, protecting our kids with their guns. Those cops are trained as officers, but no specific school shooter training, I don't think. They are also trained in the entire scope of officer training, so how to book someone, defensive driving, negotiation, law, etc. If we were able to strip that training down, eliminate things like defensive driving and what the code for a burglary is, and just focus on firearm training, school shooter situations, wouldn't that type of armed "guard" be ideal for protecting kids in schools? Even better than a random cop? Some common argument: I don't want guns in my kids school! but you are ok with a cop carrying a gun in your kids school? well yea, that's fine, it's a cop So it has less to do with a gun in the school and more to do with the training that person with the gun has? I don't want Ms. Judy pulling out her Colt 45 at the first sign of trouble! But if Ms. Judy were Officer Judy, you'd be ok with it? Right, if she's a cop and not a teacher, that's different. So again, it comes back to training? We need cops, not teachers with guns! The Parkland cop(s) didn't seem to help. And when did we all of the sudden trust cops??? I still have my hands up dont shoot! sign, are we done with that now? See, some teacher fired a gun in a school, this is awful! What kind of training do those people have? We should train people who are carrying guns around our kids. It seems as though training makes all the difference. Training is not somehow unique to cops or security guards. We can apply that training (even better, more specific training) to anyone willing and able to learn. So why not train staff (not ALL staff, not mandatory, not handing guns out as every teacher walks through the door in the morning)? My kid's principal is apparently a CCW teacher. It's his first year at this school, and he said the school he came from had 4 guns in the school, located in biometric lock boxes in the 4 corners of the building, not visible to anyone. He and a couple teachers who were trained (not sure what their training was exactly) knew where the boxes were and the boxes were all keyed to all of their fingerprints, such that any of the trained teachers had access to any of the lock boxes. is that a more palatable solution to those who don't want to see a gun on a teacher's hip?
Common argument I don't see you addressing... Doesn't it seem like horseshit to pay for this and not other things schools desperately need? The only way to get them funding is weapons? Let's give them more money...but NOT for weapons I say
What's more important than the well being of our kids? Agreed, schools should have everything they need to teach kids, but on the hierarchy of "needs" I think life saving measures is at the top. It wouldn't just be for weapons, it would be for training as well. I say we reduce the defense budget by a tiny fraction and use those billions of dollars to accomplish this.
For the record, the main issue people have with this "solution" is that it's far from the most effective option on the table. And when people bring it up it seems to be to distract from what the best solution actually is.
I don't think there is a consensus on what the main issue is. I'd say it's mental health and the use of prescription drugs to regulate mental health. But also the mindset that makes high school kids think shooting up a school is a reasonable option. We've had bully's in schools forever. We've had access to guns forever. We've had kids from bad homes and backgrounds forever. Only recently is the solution to go kill a bunch of kids in a school. Getting a good answer as to why that is would be helpful.
Imagine getting a hard on over “being right” about gun control on a messageboard after a school shooting
I still can't wrap my mind around the mindset of people who are okay with needing to arm our fucking teachers just to keep kids from getting massacred. Like that's the best world you can come up with that you want to live in? Be better. Have some fucking standards for what you want your country to be
Not KEEP kids from being massacred. HOPE to MINIMIZE the kill count of the massacre. The strategy isn’t even to try and prevent school shootings. It’s to return fire. It’s an asinine strategy.
No. Education is the top priority, not turning the school into a fortress. EDUCATION. Reading, writing, that kind of stuff.
It’s already hard enough to get good teachers to take teaching jobs thanks to low pay, long hours, lack of financial and institutional support, etc. Adding on a firearms requirement would whittle that pool even more. Plus it’s costly. Also, are we going to train substitutes too? I also do not want classrooms turning into a level of Call of Duty. When the police approach in an incident and see multiple people shooting at each other in a frenzied situation, how can they tell the good guys from the bad guys in a split second? That doesn’t even mention increased casualties from friendly fire. Friendly fire happens among trained military personnel — it’d be a huge risk. Also, where will these guns be stored? And how will they be kept away from precociously mischievous students while also being readily available to use in an incident? I also think that having artillery in the classroom turns us into militarized savages more than we already are. Our country’s relationship with guns is already dysfunctional as it is. It’s an insane idea, the worst idea.
I think a complete solution includes, but is not limited to protecting our most valuable assets with armed guards. That's the approach we take with jewelry, money, elected officials, but it's not acceptable for our kids? Why do you think in the minds of disgruntled high school kids, shooting up the school has become a reasonable solution to their problems? What changed? America has always been a country full of guns. 20 years ago it was easier to access a gun than it is today. years ago it was possible to legally buy more destructive weapons than you can buy today. What changed?
it wouldn't be a requirements. Like I said, it woudl be a voluntary program, and it woudl be a select few. There would be details we'd need to work out. How do police identify good guys and bad guys? Specific protocol for different sized schools, with different layouts; you wouldn't treat a single-story 20 room building the same as a campus with 20 multi-story buildings. I mentioned the possibility of hidden boxes with bio locks, keyed to the people trained. But in reality we have the friendly fire/accident/mischievous kid issue right now in many high schools. My local high schools all have this issue, with armed cops roaming the halls. Should we be pushing to get those guns out of those high schools?
I think the answer to this question is the key to the solution. So whatever answer it takes, long or short, I guess.
Libertrian riner really struggling which button to push “the government can’t be trusted” or “more government employees need to be empowered to kill”
Alternatively "public school teachers are incompetent" and "public school teachers should be trusted with firearms"
Your take was as biased as it was stupid. It’s not a “both sides” thing. It’s this guy is a borderline hero and probably saved lives and you are mad about it for some reason? You’re probably first person in line to complain if he did nothing.
My take obviously didn't register with you. I'm quite alright with that and not surprised in the slightest, given your posting history.
I have a dream, that one day a man will not be judged by his avatar or his fan of section, but by the content of his posting history
The funny thing is you think I give a fuck about your thoughts on my posting. I think I understood it pretty well. You were mad someone with an agenda opposite your’s posted something so you took it upon yourself to talk about his hard on. Carry on.