I love you guys and this thread, but if we actually reach a point where dozens of people start seriously arguing that AOC would’ve been better to run in that PA special election over Conor Lamb then I think it’s clear we’ve left reality.
Compromise is the best way to govern a country as big and diverse as ours is. The problem is that there is no counter weight comparable to the reactionary Republican Party right now, so compromise inevitably means moving rightward. The lefter side of the aisle needs an AOC out there to provide weight in negotiations. As a freshman congresswoman, she isn’t going to be the one striking those bargains. What she can do is strengthen the bargaining position of Democratic leadership by building up enthusiasm in the general public for progressive policies. That will make the ultimate compromise reached better for the Democratic Party as a whole.
The popularity for healthcare ones usually nosedives as soon as they see the bill or if there’s even the slightest hiccup a la healthcare.gov. If you want evidence so bad read up on why Vermont quietly abandoned pushing through a state-wide Medicare for all. Their brains collided with reality when they saw the cost was so enermous it would’ve bankrupted the state.
She primaried a safe centrist dem and won. A safe centrist dem ran for president and lost. Saying that safe centrist dems are the way to win elections shows that you aren’t living in the current reality
Can’t comment one way or another on that. Just saw he was one that voted against it and he’s usually pretty good about saying why on twitter. And yeah, that sounds like a potential consequence, if accurate
He's mischaracterizing the bill as well. It doesn't guarantee payment during future shutdowns. It just eliminates the need to have a vote to grant backpay after any future shutdowns, which is already essentially Congressional procedure. Considering 80% of people live paycheck to paycheck, the pain point of not being paid on time will still be present in any future shutdown lasting this long.
Worker pay only matters during shut downs if the government isn’t run by sociopaths. There is no reason to harm government employees over petulant child like leadership
There is literally more evidence to the contrary. The fact that Lamb didn’t run an AOC agenda and won.
I think the pressure of employees not getting paid should not be removed from leadership. You take that away, and it makes it easier for them to shut down gov. It sucks. It's unfair. It's bullshit, but Idk if it helps prevent shut downs.
It makes shutdowns less likely because they aren’t saving anyone money and they aren’t holding lives hostage. It kills the ability to use a shutdown as a political weapon.
You’re putting words in my mouth. I said not all Dems can run nationwide on a AOC platform and if progressives demands they do or they’ll use their influence to defeat them then that’s a potential recipe for electoral losses and party tension. That should not be a controversial opinion.
Yes. A Congressional election is the same everywhere in America. Whoever wins a primary, makes their best argument to win in the general. This is some GOP level menta gymnastics in these last two pages.
It's not pressure on them because they'll always pass it. The only pressure they'd feel is if their salaries are frozen as well. Otherwise it doesn't matter to them. The senate is taking a nice long weekend after showing up to work on Tuesday this week.
Not when a main goal of shutting down the government is to save money. They don’t care about the workers.
Maybe in a fantasy world where everyone has at least one month of savings to afford their monthly bills
The fact that Lamb won is not evidence that an AOC platform wouldn't have been more successful which is what the post I was responding to contended
That’s not what I said. There is evidence of progressives winning where they were previously not considered. Defaulting to the idea that progressives can’t win simply because previously a centrist won holds no value.
Not at all. I’m all in with the progressive platform. I’d support basically what Lyrtch outlined in a Medicade for all. 100% support AOC and her Green New Deal. But...I know this won’t happen overnight. And I also look at how hard the ACA fight was and know a Medicare for all will be 10x worse. I do think we’ll get there eventually but it’s likely to be a decade off at the best.
No I am saying guaranteeing employee payment during a shutdown would kill the effectiveness of trying to use a shutdown as a political weapon - something I would like to see happen. Please pass a bill that guarantees employee payments during future shutdowns.
The point is you’re asking for evidence AOC could win. You can provide evidence she would, but we do know Lamb won running as his own candidate.
That’s fair. I’m all for primaries, other than cases of outlier candidates fucking over any chance to have someone left of crazy in a seat.
It effectively kills the concept of a shutdown to be able to continue to pay government workers. It would just limit the shutdown to new spending projects which isn’t nearly as useful a negotiation tool.
I'm just disputing your take that we have evidence a Lamb platform would be more successful in that district just because he won. Polling data might suggest it, but him winning the election is only evidence that his policies were more popular than his opponent's
I misread your post, my bad. It's a good thought but it's not really possible. Nowhere for the money to come from. Freezing the house and senate pay would be the most effective tool. Selfish people don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.