yes the perception of status threats, privilege loss, etc are good predictors of what drove people. Obama being elected caused a sorting of the parties along racial liberalism and racial conservative lines. this podcast is a great explainer with someone whose literal career is based around studying this https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...idn-t-start-trump-explains-michael-ncna926191 here is more research that you might peruse https://people.umass.edu/schaffne/schaffner_et_al_IDC_conference.pdf https://www.pnas.org/content/115/19/E4330 again, not disagreeing with you, but I'm just taking the perceived persecution by much of america regarding "the coasts" and "the PC police" to what specifically they're upset about
Sorry I was a bit douchey. Let’s just be serious Caitlyn Jenner thinks it unfair she can play from the woman’s tees in golf and plays from the men’s instead. This is a former world class male athlete that believe she is not equal to women in the arena of sports. She can play up against men but women should not be forced to play against her when she is playing down a competitive level. Now this is the opinion of one Trans female that albeit is a little strange. But examples of transwomen (and not all!) rising to the top of state athletic competitions in America seems to be on the rise (for example not one but two transwomen placed 1-2 in that track meet in Connecticut). Why haven’t we seen this more before? Well because it was as culturally acceptable as it is now that we have become more socially liberated. I think the trend of this is only going to increase and no it’s isnt an epidemic but I find it silly and unfair for women to have to try and compete against a person that in many ways could have a more than trivial advantage. I just imagine having a daughter that trains her whole time in high school to compete at say a state track meet and get 3rd place to two transwoman that are probably running only averag male times but are beating the best other wome. I just know I would definitely be reconciling her for a job well done but putting myself in her position I would definitely be resentful it was allowed. Is it a big deal? Maybe not but I think it affects the people who you may not care about in sports you might not care about in some ways that translate off the field. Maybe I’m being dramatic but it’s my opinion.
Why even state this? It’s pretty obvious what I meant not sure why you had to deconstruct it down to the numbers.... fine she only made 100 million people mad instead of 150 million
I’m still trying to stop posting in this thread enough so I can read the NIH stuff so you may have to wait a bit
Do you think she caused anyone that would have voted for her to vote for Trump instead by saying what she said?
With all due respect, this doesn't really answer the question I asked. My position is simply that I think transwomen should be allowed to compete until and unless there is scientifically verifiable evidence that they have an unfair advantage that cisgender women do not have. You made it sound like such evidence exists, and I'd be curious to read it. A story or 2 or 10 about transgender women succeeding doesn't really do anything. If transwomen had absolutely no advantage, by sheer numbers, you'd expect some transwomen to win competitions. I haven't seen anything to indicate that transwomen are winning at a statistically significant rate. For whatever it's worth, I feel confident that Caitlyn Jenner would get smoked on the LPGA tour from any tee box.
I am skeptical that HRC saying that some of Trump’s supporters are deplorable but some are people just looking for someone to hear their concerns caused HRC supporters to defect to Trump. But if you say you know some, I’ll trust you.
Jeesh what a harsh take. Do you like people? I find most people to be decent human beings. Not sure why you’d go through life with this attitude.
Fine. But if you expect them to be win in large number at this moment in time that is not a valid argument. Let’s wait 10-15 years now that this is a more socially acceptable lifestyle. I don’t think we have seen the anywhere near the numbers of people that want to live this lifestyle yet.
if your reaction to someone pointing out that the guy who says a bunch of racist, misogynist, just bigoted shit has supporters that align with his rhetoric is to vote for him you're uhhh, hold on telling on yourself
With the attitude that 1/4 of the US are racist misogynist assholes? I mean it’s true and that’s probably a conservative number. Not sure how you can think that’s incorrect.
I'm not making any arguments. I'm giving my opinion on the topic, which is that I believe they should be able to compete against cisgender women absent scientific evidence of unfair advantage. I haven't seen any yet.
What is exactly your problem? Man I can’t even try to lend an olive branch. Maybe I won’t read it. This is exactly the type of attitude I am talking about that makes people cringe in your direction. I still will read it because I have no issue with reading opposing views but wow you just can’t help being miserable. I may learn some things and it could or could not have an affect my opinion depending on the validity of the study but at least I know how not to be a complete and utter dick.
missed a few pages itt but this is also my thoughts, just coincidentally waiting for the alternative proof (scientific evidence that it is not an unfair advantage). *in the end, it appears we need more info.
I can only believe what they tell me. It may not have been the deplorable thing exactly but between snubbing Bernie Sanders and Hillary constantly eroding her ability to be likable really made people at the very least borderline Hillary supporters say to hell with her.
i was being genuine, everyone needs to read and learn more, calm down curiosities sake, where and whom do you get most your political content from?
Oh boy... I don’t know what to say other than get out of the bubble that is LA. I am never going to change your mind otherwise. 1) I think you will find most people aren’t racist and misogynistic and 2) you’ll find out many people don’t suppport trump because they hate people of color It’s weird to explain why I feel several of the trump people I know feel the way they do but it’s mostly that they distrust the current state of the media and America more than they distrust him. It’s weird, people know he lies... they aren’t dumb they just would rather have a ‘better the devil you know then the one you don’t’ type of situation
Don’t act like ‘do more of it’ isn’t some kind of dig. Various places I guess mostly reddit (whatever links that leads me to who knows but that site is very left leaning), this site and whatever news channel is playing at the gym or where I work. If I find a topic that interests me generally I go down the Wikipedia hole and read sources of the articles I am looking at.
Thanks for answering read the studies and/or listen to the podcast I sent you, it'll help clear up your struggle to enunciate the what of your friends and yourself feel about the state of the media or america
and reddit is at both times left friendly and the deepest darkest cesspool of right wing radicalizing insanity you'll ever see based on where you look
If 1/4 of the country is something that means the majority isn’t, right? So I am not saying most of the country is racist or misogynistic. Those that support trump after all we know about him and his thoughts on POC, might not hate poc but they sure in hell are okay with hate being used to scapegoat poc. They are at the very least complicit. I’ve never heard a city as diverse as LA be called a bubble. I can’t understand anyone who sees what trump is doing and still supports his hate and fear mongering.
whats fun is trump supporters are dramatically more likely to live in proverbial "bubbles" regarding political affiliation and dramatically less likely to interact with people outside their demographic
Maybe I got turned around somehow in this thread but are there people in this thread that think. 1. People born men who identify as women should be able to compete against women? 2. People born men who identify as women and complete transition to a woman should be able to compete against women?
No one thinks 1. Some portion thinks 2, but they disagree on the parameters of “completion of transition.”
So hormonal treatment that has them within the same level of testosterone as other women, and that have not had operation is okay for some?
Shit like this makes you sound like a fucking idiot, FYI. Why do you assume that your bubble is more like “real” America? If you want people to take anything you say remotely seriously, knock this shit off. Pennsylvania (or wherever you live) isn’t any more “real” America than Los Angeles. Be better.
Midwesterners getting all teary eyed because they were so fucking stupid that they fell for a guy who was selling miracle vitamins on infomercials like ten years ago is one of the few bright spots of this timeline.
i would say let them compete but there are issues, mainly with the f--> m transition as the hormones they use would pretty much be considered doping
I think they can apply the same doping tests. Still, the point is likely moot because female to male transgendered people aren’t going to be making the fucking olympics in male divisions.
you are putting in my mouth yet again. I never said real America or any of the shit. Don’t worry where I live but if you don’t think the political climate here is completely opposite then you proved my point.
yeah, so the question is which way do you do it. if its their new gender identity there is gonna be a substantial advantage probably for M--> F and similarly if you go from the born gender there is an advantage of F--> M. I dont think you want to have situations where the entire top of an athletic discipline is made up of trans
Wow at taking ‘most’ and using that to apply it literally. You know what I meant I was talking about within the group that voted for trump. I’m just going to disagree with you on the whole people of color thing. Simply not a valid conclusion at all. Based completely on thinking you know what people feel or think. LA is absolutely a bubble politically. Again why do you keep taking my words and twisting them so you don’t have to answer any part of my point? What percentage of LA do you think voted Democrat? You really think that number is close to say the county or surrounding counties I live in? It’s more politcally isolated and your opinion seems to reflect that. Just looked it up 70% Hilary and I’d speculate that number would increase a lot if you didn’t consider people above a wealthy tax bracket. Let’s say those who make over 500k/year
wouldn’t the burden be on the party that (after puberty) switched genders and now wants to compete against women?
Just looked it up by the way my county was 50% trump Lol acting like diversity implies political variance
Oh great Dairy Queen joined the thread. Lyrtch your condescending asshole title has been stripped. That angry guy is on the ultimate high horse. Simplifies every situation to little snippet quotes and snickers like it’s what anyone is saying. Must be fun being an internet troll I guess? Good luck to him. I will not be responding.
Calling LA a bubble is idiotic and spinning it as a political bubble is disingenuous. Ever consider that diverse areas, like LA, vote the way they do because they don’t respond well to politicians using minorities as scary monsters?