You're being a brat. Sam is his most trusted confidant and he literally sent him to citadel to study shit bc of how smart he thinks he is. There are tons of story lines they have to fit in this thing we don't have time for Sam draw out a 23 and me diagram for Jon.
Also I get it. Some of the characters do stupid shit. Humans do stupid shit. Even smart humans. They do it because of shit that has happened to them and their biases that have been formed by those experiences. All of the characters- even in the Books- have done catastrophically stupid things throughout the series. They're still doing stupid shit now and will continue to do stupid shit until the show is over. But at least as far as this last episode goes, the stupid shit they are doing lines up with who their characters are bc of shit that has happened to them in previous episodes. That's good writing. And considering the show is about fucking dragons and zombies, that's great fucking writing.
That's a high quality strawman yer spewing there. We are talking about the literal most important story line in the series and they half-assed it.
Convincing Jon is not as big of a deal as you’re trying to make it, telling and convincing other people, especially Dany, is the real issue.
I promised a death by death of that one poorly photoshopped image of all of the main characters. No one died on that image, only little Ned Umber and a lot of Euron's men. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Nah rook. They are both big reveals. They blew the first one. Yet to see how they will do on the next but it's d&d so expectations are low.
So you expected Jon to not believe Sam? You do realize it’s consistent with what has happened in the past, right?
Your best friend comes to you and tells you, with no evidence, that your dad, the most important person in your life, isn't your dad. Cool bro but my girl is the queen and to argue against it is treason. If you don't think that's poor writing then these are just the writers for you.
It’s consistent with that time his best friend told him you can kill these badass white walkers with these daggers made of something that we never heard of and Jon ran to Hardhome to give them away so the Wilding can defend themselves. Please enlighten me on how you would’ve rolled out this great reveal? Howland Reed ain’t walking through that door.
Don't even see that as comparison. for jon.to just be like Neds not my dad goes against everything that makes.jon Jon. Jon Stark's whole persona is "Ned's son." If you don't see the difference in scales then, like I said, these are indeed the writers for you. As to how the reveal could have been done better than "I saw a script that I don't have and bran bran did bran things" I'd suggest, well just about anything. How about showing the script. A diary from Ned or lyanna or rhaegar or his wet nurse. Why couldn't Howland reed show up when all the banners are being called. Heck, even having bran there could have made it more believable. Cool dragons, incredible battle scenes, nice tits, and shit writing. GoT, the final 3 seasons.
Jon Snow went from being the Bastard of Winterfell, to being Lord Commander and then King of the North, but you believe that being Ned’s son is what makes him who he is? Perhaps you should rewatch the earlier seasons and do a better job of paying attention, Ned Stark having a bastard goes against everything that makes Ned who he is. As to your reveals, you think having a stranger, Howland Reed, randomly go up to Jon and tell him Ned is not his father is better than his best friend telling him? And the introduction of a diary to reveal his identity is truly awful, you think Ned would leave a written record of this massive secret? There’s plenty to rip the show and the writers for, like how they handled the revelation that the Night’s King has one of Dany’s dragons, but criticizing them for writing that Jon believed his best friend is flat out comical. Perhaps in the future you could write these kind of thoughts/opinions in a diary instead of polluting the board with them.
Taking the stand as a superior intellectual while typing out a post that would have gotten a C from my 5th grade teacher. Interesting.
I thought Sams reasoning of Ned promising to protect him because Robert would have killed him was pretty solid. Matches up with Ned being so honorable and never telling Jon about his mother. "You might not have my name but you have my blood" etc etc
Sam is the best person to reveal it. Bran would have been doubted because he’s a psychic Rain Man now, but Jon knows Sam would never lie and make something up like that and tell him if it wasn’t true.
Yeah that's BS and is annoying me more than anything that happened last night. They crammed all these fucking reunions down or throat yet Jon closest companion is no where to be found and he could careless. They don't even mention him in any of the shitty throw away lines. I get the dragons are all the rage on the show but even when they aren't on TV they still make sure you know they're there. No one has even mentioned Ghost in two seasons. We have this big Stark/duh norf redemption happening but the damn direwolf is no where to be found.
You mean his his dog who has saved his ass and others countless times. including against Whites? Gtfooh. Ghost is supposed to still be at Winterfell. they made sure Jon reconnected with everyone he hasn't seen in a while and has missed but he doesn't go check on Ghost or take his Queen to see his direwolf. Hell he could have just mention something about Ghost dealing with dragons in some of the subpar dialogue Jon and Dany had during the episode. CGI budget is a piss poor excuse for us not to see Ghost in Jon's return to Winterfell.
In Drogon’s belly It is bs, they even made mention of the fact that we won’t be seeing elephants but say nothing about Ghost.
Man a scene where Jon takes Dany to meet Ghost would’ve been a much better way to reinforce the romance between the two than a cheesy dragon ride to a waterfall
I wouldn’t hate the idea of nymeria feasting on Cersei if she leaves the RK to head north for some reason
I'd like to see him, but I'm not going to be upset he doesn't show up in the first hour of the season.
I think some of it is overkill, but ending a TV series is hard. Ending GoT when the show has surpassed the books and the TV show ending is probably the only closure book people are going to get is a whole different animal. Laughing about cheesy ass dialogue when they had 2 years to perfect it, knowing millions and millions would be focusing on every word said, is not that ridiculous.
No matter what these guys come up with, people are going to bitch. I don't think it's perfect, but I'm not going to complain about the little stuff. I was perfectly fine with Sam being the one to break the news to Jon, and I don't think it was out of character or anything like that.
Question, does anyone else struggle to accept "Sansa is like totally the smartest player in the game now?" Am I missing something?
I’m indifferent towards Sansa but this whole “Sansa is the smartest person alive” is classic show don’t tell. As of now, they really are basing her intelligence on her seeing the need to feed people during winter. Like, congratulations, you understand people need to eat. And the fact that it was framed as if Dany or Jon weren’t thinking about this is classic dumbing down of characters for cheap drama.
Wrt the Sansa discussion she's plenty smart, but there is no smartest person in the game. None of these characters are infallible. They all have strengths and they all have weaknesses. They all have moments when they're smart, they all have moments when they're dumb. They're always towing the line of winning honorably and winning at all costs. Good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things. It's the entire point of the series.
Yeah, she's grown up and playing the game. It may be that everybody's doing the "holy cow, look at Sansa" thing because when she was growing up nobody thought she had it in her. Kinda like when Cal fans expect a shit season and then we go 7-5 and everybody's all OMG build a statue of the coach. It's all about initial expectations
She only survived Joffrey because Lady O and Littlefinger saved her ass. She only survived Ramsey because Theon helped her over the wall and Brianne came to her rescue. Her intellect is wildly overrated.
They did a terrible job of portraying Sansa outplaying LF, even though it was rushed, she did outplay LF. She has also been right when it comes to predicting the actions of others, she knew Ramsey was going to have a trick up his sleeve and she knew Rickon was being used as bait. She has also been the only person that has been able to read Cersei.
take Tyrion for example. No one doubts how incredibly smart he is. Least of all Tyrion. It's his weakness. Even more so than boozin and whorin. His mouth has gotten him into plenty of shit. It's also why it's plausible-albeit yes, idiotic- that in his arrogance he thought he convinced Cersei to join forces with everyone else. All of us, including Sansa, saw how stupid that was. It still sort of fits his character. And for the story's purposes, there is no way the hand of the queen- and thus the queen herself- leaves KL thinking Cersei has actually joined forces unless he himself convinced her to. That also highlights that even though Cersei has been a dumb bitch at times when it comes to hording all the power within the family, she's still smart enough to play Tyrion beautifully.
If Sansa is so incredibly smart why is she Dany the cold shoulder? With the army of the dead coming that is about as dumb as it gets. Sure, she’s cynical(and usually accurately so in this world) but does that make her a genius? Margeary survived and outwitted Joffrey, Sansa was rescued.
If the show tells me Sansa’s smart, I guess I’ll have to believe them. She appears to be a tool used to drive drama and not much more, iyam. Oh, and I don’t think she’s very attractive.
I took the "I used to think you were the cleverest man alive" scene differently. I don't think it was Sansa trying to flex on Tyrion how much smarter she is than him now, it might be a subtle hint at she thinking Tyrion has ulterior motives, she knows for a fact that Tyrion is smarter than Cersei and him pretending to be fooled by Cersei is totally out of character for him, then we also have immediately Bran staring up at Tyrion almost like "I know what you're planning" ala Bran staring down Little Finger. We still don't know what exactly went down between Cersei and Tyrion in her room, and in the books, Dany is suppose to be betrayed one more time.
I agree. She outplayed him but we had 2-3 episodes of her and Arya acting like idiots and then 2 minutes of the payoff. She was not smart for years. It makes a ton of sense that she’s learned from the schemers she’s been around and is smart now. I just don’t think the show has shown enough to get her there. Even her actions which saved the day at the battle of the bastards seemed muddied by the fact that she could have told jon and let him plan a battle with the knights of the vale. I thought her conversation with Tyrion where she mocked him for believing Cersei was their best way of proving her as a successful schemer so far. Hopefully a few more examples come so I can truly believe she is the person they are clearly setting her up to be.
I like the idea but the show writers tend to avoid subtlety. This results in characters making dumb decisions (zombie treasure hunt field trip is the prime example) just to push plot. It seems more likely that everyone just believed Cersei, despite her history, because they needed to wrap up the "Dany in the south" section of the story and send her to da norf. Wish I was wrong but 3+ years of writing says I'm not.