Ok by why do we mark the starting point at the place where you can blame Israel? You say it starts with Israel taking land but why? It’s amazing the mental gymnastics it takes to solely blame Israelis when Arabs and Palestinians have been willing participants in an 80 year conflict. Arabs wage multiple wars of annihilation against israel and Israel wins then gets blamed for winning. Also relying on the iron dome is the most asinine thing I’ve ever heard. If Mexico lobbed thousands of rockets into Arizona and while many rockets were intercepted, some killed Americans somehow I doubt you’d be advocating just taking it
I’m only responding to the dumb take that one side isn’t killing enough people therefor the other side needs to not react
He’s just daring Biden to come out against him. Biden can’t let him jerk him around publicly. The US has all the power. It just has to have the courage to even threaten to use it.
This girl is the same age as my kid and looks remarkably like her and this has been burned into my mind for hours now.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to hold the Israeli government to a higher standard of behavior than Hamas
you kid but sometimes it just takes a couple of assholes that don’t want to kill people to shake things up
I think this is true with people under 50 in the west, but the Arab states stop caring about Palestinians awhile ago.
I don't think US citizens have any clue how the conflict is viewed by the rest of the world. The other Arab states (essentially the dictators) are so focused on maintaining their own tenuous power that they really can't afford to do anything.
I think they probably did before the Six Day War. Since the Arab forces lost, they probably decided it was better to just make money trading with the West than pursue it, and now it distant memory. Crazy that the Israeli military attacked the USS Liberty and killed 34 US sailors and wounded 171 in the Six Days War, and it is mostly lost to history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#U.S._government_investigations
Look at the traditional Israeli foes and they aint doing shit. Assad barely maintained power and Syria's still a mess. Abdullah in Jordan has gone through tons of governments for economic reasons that no one will fix. Egypt's generally been a shitshow since 2011 and Sisi wants to maintain that power above all else.
And the Saudis like having Israel around, because they both want the United States to fight a war with Iran for them.
Yep any conflict would absolutely wreck the economies of those countries and they'd have to beg MBS to pay the bills. MBS has zero reason to indulge them plus like all non-elected leaders cares most about maintaining power and wealth (that sweet oil wealth). Throwing money at Newcastle is a much better investment than any stupid plan to kick Israel out.
I too prefer MBS trying to whitewashing his ordering Shitty AMC Show of Jamal Khashoggi and having him dismembered and dissolved in acid (and literally everything about Saudi Arabia) by buying Newcastle and making them good, a better outlet than attacking Israel. As fun as it would be for Newcastle to be good, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.
It's become extremely hard for me to take those assertions from Israel seriously anymore. You're going to tell me that the IDF knew about the rocket cache sitting under their allies building but did absolutely nothing to warn or otherwise move them before? IDF, that raids palestinians' homes at the drop of a hat based on even the weakest of accusations, just leaving a weapons cache out? Or, instead, that they magically knew all of a sudden that rockets were sitting their AFTER they decided to start bombing stuff, and NOW would be the perfect time to get them? Did they notknow before? Their intel and tech is too modern to just not know, but they want us to believe them? I'm absolutely sure israel has good enough snipers to sit and wait long enough to take out specific people without obliterating dozens of homes.
The countries a lot of those journalists are citizens of? Britain, the US. Khashoggi wasnt even a citizen, he was a green card holder, and there was a huge shit show when the saudi crown decided to so mutilate and disappear him
There was a story written back during a previous military conflict in one of the publications like salon or the Atlantic about Hamas busting into the offices of journalists reporting in Gaza threatening them about reporting on certain things like Hamas reporting militants as civilian dead and Hamas shooting rockets near the location of foreign journalists. There’s no way the AP is going to come out and say ya Hamas plans operations in this building and put their reporters lives in danger.
This is a long article I suggest people read When Hamas’s leaders surveyed their assets before this summer’s round of fighting, they knew that among those assets was the international press. The AP staff in Gaza City would witness a rocket launch right beside their office, endangering reporters and other civilians nearby—and the AP wouldn’t report it, not even in AP articles about Israeli claims that Hamas was launching rockets from residential areas. (This happened.) Hamas fighters would burst into the AP’s Gaza bureau and threaten the staff—and the AP wouldn’t report it. (This also happened.) Cameramen waiting outside Shifa Hospital in Gaza City would film the arrival of civilian casualties and then, at a signal from an official, turn off their cameras when wounded and dead fighters came in, helping Hamas maintain the illusion that only civilians were dying. (This too happened; the information comes from multiple sources with firsthand knowledge of these incidents.) Colford, the AP spokesman, confirmed that armed militants entered the AP’s Gaza office in the early days of the war to complain about a photo showing the location of a rocket launch, though he said that Hamas claimed that the men “did not represent the group.” The AP “does not report many interactions with militias, armies, thugs or governments,” he wrote. “These incidents are part of the challenge of getting out the news—and not themselves news.” https://www.theatlantic.com/interna.../how-the-media-makes-the-israel-story/383262/
Color me skeptical that a former IDF soldier is writing an article that claims the Western press is covering up for Hamas to make Israel look bad. I think this summarizes his points well "The rally is interesting for the visual connection it makes between radical Islam here and elsewhere in the region; a picture like this could help explain why many perfectly rational Israelis fear withdrawing their military from East Jerusalem or the West Bank, even if they loathe the occupation and wish to live in peace with their Palestinian neighbors." Israelis hate the occupation and wish they could stop it, if only they could live in peace. It's such a disingenuous argument. These Palestinians would rather live in poverty under occupation for the past 53 years than just be peaceful. I will agree that there is almost certainly a culture among reporters in Gaza but to suggest that the Western press covers for Hamas because of it is ludicrous.
Hello I am believe this man's unbiased analysis Why won't they live in peace under our oppressive policies, it's so unfair that the AP doesn't show wounded Hamas militants because they're too busy showing dead Palestinian children
Hope there's more information that comes out about this because on its face...looking pretty genocide-y.
Yeah, I think anyone who grew up with any Irish Republican influences around them are generally very pro-Palestine.
Ive stayed away from this because I admittedly knew nothing about any of this. Now I feel guilty for falling for the narrative for so long. If you didn't see the LWT intro on Israel its really good
If I knew absolutely nothing about the conflict and came here, I would feel disagreeing with you on almost everything puts me in the correct position.
I know I missed a big part of the thread, but can you cite this? I'm guessing his take is far more nuanced, but that's not really your thing.
He thinks anyone who is against Israel committing war crimes is apparently "rooting" for Hamas, like this is some kind of team sport or something and not people being murdered for no reason.
Have you made one post critical of Hamas? Has anyone posted the picture of dead Israeli or Palestinian civilians killed by Hamas, because they're out there. Has anyone said how fucked up it is Hamas has an extensive underground bunker network but hasn't built bunkers for civilians? No, its just the normal Israel is evil circle jerk (despite Hamas starting this conflict). Are you shitting me. Not one person has offered any nuance in this thread besides Truman What we have seen is a lot of propaganda like the incorrect map post from earlier.