Okay I agree that this is just how society should and has always worked. Maybe I just misunderstood what you were arguing.
Like Lyrtch is saying it has some floating definition that people seem to define however they want which kind of makes it meaningless imo.
the entire discussion of cancellation is around this delineation, im just stating that by imo the most frequently used construction of cancellation he wasn't cancelled, because it was a just situation hypothetical but i don't think you'd see Rogan types crying about cancel culture in the case of Weinstein, it gives the game away with what they use cancellation for and it's always in "unjust" in their mind scenarios think we're all in agreement here
Okay I understand. I just fully embraced the phrase “cancel culture”. I don’t think firing people or disassociating from evil or dumb ass people is a new thing in society, but I like the term.
And I should also say I like that social media has given a platform that allows and encourages victims to share their experiences. Celebrities have been fired before for being racist or creepy on camera before, sure, but victims coming forward about behavior behind the scenes feels new and it seems to coincide with a society and a rise in social media that has encouraged people to voice their experiences. That’s a net positive to me. Even if it comes with chuds dubbing that movement as “cancel culture”.
Real quick, if I decide I don't like what someone says and stop watching their specials am I canceling them? Do I just need to keep watching Dave Chapelle even though I no longer like what he's saying so his feelings don't get hurt?
Absolutely loved Sticks and Stones, was very meh about this. Felt more like a solo podcast than a comedy show. He mentioned taking a break after this and think he just should have taken it one show earlier, but I guess he had contractual obligations with Netflix. As for cancel culture stuff, I think the root of the fear of that comes from the knowledge that social media is getting old enough for people who know they said pretty fucked up shit 10+ years ago getting called out for it when they may not (publicly at least) espouse it anymore.
I think there's also the style of "cancel culture" fear that's Bill Maher-esque in that, to Lyrtch's point, these guys are feverishly reading any criticism of themselves or other celebrities, no matter how obscure, and throwing a fit about things a few people on Twitter said. I spend too much time online and if I randomly turn on Real Time any given Friday, Maher is raging about someone being cancelled and I've never heard of the incident and neither has 97% of everyone because nobody cares. Somehow "cancelled" actually means "someone in the far reaches of the internet said something mean or stupid to a misunderstood celebrity."
This is where I am on the subject. This idea of cancel culture is like white people who were upset they couldnt openly call black people hard r’s after it wasn’t socially acceptable anymore. Times changes. Dinosaurs get left behind.
These are my thoughts too. It felt more like a “back off” to his critics than an actual set of comedy. That’s where I was disappointed. Expected more from a Netflix special. Also, idk if it’s my own maturation or the racialization of so much of society in the past couple years l, but I found the gratuitous hard-R’s by Dave to be more cringe than edgy humor Didn’t really object to any of the trans stuff though it kind of dominated his entire set and was waiting for him to move on to another subject. Then it ended
Louis CK was more of a Me Too thing. Perhaps Im being pedantic, but I dont consider that cancel culture. Kaepernick is really the only person I can think of that got cancelled to where he could continue on in his profession just for things he said
Usually the trouble comes not from problematic old tweets or whatever, it's when you double down on them when questioned about them
Look, I personally would not go there. But if someone did decide to do so, they shouldn't be so fucking fixated w it (as DC seems to be).
He wasn't cancelled for what he said, he was ostracized and shunned for essentially sexually assaulting a bunch of women. He's lucky he's not in jail.
He is lucky he’s not in Jail. But holy fucking semantics at the rest of your post. Yea I’ll pass on arguing that with you. You win.
I don't know who this is. He's a rich and powerful public figure who's using his enormous platform to make fun of people who are already marginalized. That's pretty textbook punching down
I haven't been able to make it through any of his recent specials. I can read quotes as short as like "team terf" and know that it sucks and it's bad.
Also, he’s always made fun of marginalized people. He went in on opioid addicts… silence. Asians.. silence. Black folk.. silence. Etc etc etc
My point is that he’s always used his comedy in a way that pokes fun at issues that most would avoid. That’s who he is. He expects you to laugh with him. That’s just how it is
I've already said I couldn't really get into any of his recent stuff and haven't really watched it so that stuff can be bad too?? This seems like you're questioning someone genuinely being turned off by transphobia because of other bad jokes that didn't cross a threshold of an appropriate reaction for you personally
the problem with his trans stuff is much of it isn't even a joke, the ones that are framed as jokes are transphobe jokes you'd see from Dice in the 90s or any bargain basement conservative comedian now. its hack material
That’s how he’s always been though. It’s not a new development. If transphobia is your threshold I’m not mad at you or anyone else. I just think it’s silly to be surprised he’s made those jokes or hold him to a standard that’s above that. If you were ok with everything else, he probably imagines you’re ok with the trans jokes
You frame yourself as this radically sympathetic person but you don't have sympathy for those being shit on by this millionaire so he can make even more money.
I believe a tremendous difference between words and actions. Comedy is meant to be taken lightly. I’ve stated my case wrt his JK Rowling TERF stance (although I think he made a good point with the Caitlyn Jenner bit).. I just think that if we’ve laughed at Pryor, Carlin, Chapell and the many comics over the years because of the material they’ve put out than we’re smart enough to decipher malice from humor
Alex Jones still has the same platform he always has. There is no such thing as cancel culture. The most watched cable show is a literal white supremacist.
I mean are we asking for rules here? Do we want comedians to be Bill Cosby? I’m ready Dave to move on as well just from a content standpoint but this is what he does. Hate it or love it, it’s what he does
you guys have to stop pretending Alex Jones now is Alex Jones in the 2010s. he has no major presence anywhere barring an appearance on Rogan's podcast. no major social media presence. no major media outreach. he's fucking gone. he was successfully de-platformed. just stop acting like de-platforming is a bad thing and letting the argument around it proactively frame it as a pejorative for you.
i think you're just mostly unable to understand that his trans material is absolutely from a bigoted place and if your jokes are hacky like that it's fine to call it out, so dave can cry about it for another 100 million and multiple specials its similar to so many jokes that were just "being gay is bad and weird" for decades, shockingly lots of comedians have admitted the material they did was bad and bigoted!
this is a good tweet because nobody has cancelled Dave at all, they've just said his shit wasn't funny.
Ehh I think he’s getting dog piled a bit and I don’t really think anyone is calling him out on his humor. I mean, Redav prolly has 30 posts on the topic and he hasn’t even watched it. That’s probably pretty normal behavior over this issue