Why is two women kissing each other morally wrong to you? Not based on some fictional book but to you personally. We rarely get a straight answer out of you but maybe we can get this answered.
Agreeing to disagree on the moral stuff is probably the best course of action here. I was more militant in my youth in trying to dictate people's way of life. I'm no longer that way. We live in a democracy, not a theocracy. Personally would I prefer to see certain acts in public? No. This goes way beyond homosexuality. But am I going to be the person on the news protesting anything about it? No. I haven't even voted that way in like over a decade.
I think a "straight" answer from me is not possible, based on what you're asking. You just don't agree with my fundamental stance on things. That's fine. You're correct it's based on a "fictional" book. I don't see it as fictional. You do. I don't think either of us are going to change our minds about that. Edit: I realize I may not have answered your question. My personal feelings are shaped by the "fictional" book.
Do you kiss your wife in public? Not talking a deep tongueing, just a peck on the lips when greeting or saying bye? You didn't answer about teachers. Hypothetically you have a 10 year old with a gay male teacher. Are you upset if he's open about that? Not overboard, but just mentions his family in the same way a female teacher mentions her husband in passing. Should the gay male teacher be forced to keep his private life a secret while the straight teacher isn't?
Just a couple out of a million questions, do you eat shellfish or pork? Do you believe that Noah’s Ark was literally a thing in the way it was depicted?
or hear me out the guy who has taken countless pictures with him who was on the plane who was on the island is on the list too.
I do. I thought I did. I'm not saying I agree with the bill. Do I think promotion of homosexuality (or any immoral thing for that matter) should be on public display? No. But that doesn't mean I'm trying to dictate how people live. An innocent mention of their family in a vague context, nothing wrong with that. I don't necessarily think anyone in America should be forced to hide anything about who they are, regardless of my personal position.
I think it’s morally wrong of God to have created gay people and then punish them for it. What a disgusting piece of shit, can’t imagine believing in such a fucking dick
And here we go. This is where things always fall off the rails with people trying to play "gotcha". If I answer the questions, I'm derailing the thread. If I don't answer, I'm not engaging in good faith. Don't forget people, y'all asked me. I don't come in here with this uninvited. Yes I do. I don't ever understand why people pull this card when it's clear certain things in the OT don't carry over to NT Christianity. Eh... Maybe? Questions regarding translation, context of the original setting, and literal/figurative language.
So you can kiss your wife but you don't want a husband to kiss his husband? Do you feel as strongly about people that have been divorced? Adultery? Do you wear jewelry? Do you eat shrimp? Do you cut your hair? Do you shave? Have you ever worked on a Saturday? Do you own any land? I assume you don't feel as strongly about those things. So why is the homosexuality thing the one you cling to and feel strongly about? Not trying to be a dick here, but personally I feel like a lot of people hide their bigotry behind the Bible. There's tons of things in the Bible that people are totally ok with but lose their shit over something they thing is icky and use the Bible ad an excuse for it.
Adultery and working the sabbath are punishable by death and slavery commonly promoted by this cult. The entire fucking book is baffling.
Take it to the Marvel thread. No, wait, don’t. Marvel has created enjoyable moral tales. The Bible is hot garbage. Final season of GOT shit.
It’s okay at some point if he’s gotten this far he’ll realize he just doesn’t like gay people and he’ll stop using religion as a rationalization for it and get over it.
I know you're not trying to be a dick. Again, we're simply not going to see eye to eye on certain things, because we have different fundamentals. Not everything you're throwing out as counters is valid, or applicable. If you want to discuss further, we can take it to PM.
I don't know you at all, so I can't comment on where your discussions fall apart, but do you not see the hypocrisy in picking and choosing which things you believe from the bible?
I mean it's all in the Bible. I can quote them if necessary. You just conveniently disregard some and get hung up on some. Not sure how you can say they aren't valid. No need to discuss further. I've had the same conversation with countless people and I know how it goes. Maybe one day you'll come to understand that you're being hypocritical to reach a result that makes you comfortable instead of realizing you're just being a bigot.
Sigh. I have gay people in my immediate family. I'm not sure if this is the new "I have black friends" thing, though. Of course I do. But I won't even begin to entertain a discussion on it when people don't acknowledge the possibility that certain things no longer apply. But people really aren't interested in having that discussion. You want to make your blanket point and move on. Not you specifically, perhaps, but in general. Plus it's really difficult to have this discussion online.
I know better than to engage dbl in any argument. But... Quoting certain things out of context is just silly. You'd agree with that in any other discussion. We'd both be amiss if we misapplied mortgage guidelines. And for the record you really don't even know what I get hung up on or what I disregard.
I gave a list of things. Which of those do you get hung up on? Do you feel as strongly about people that have been divorced? Adultery? Do you wear jewelry? Do you eat shrimp? Do you cut your hair? Do you shave? Have you ever worked on a Saturday? Do you own any land?
I completely disagree with Seavie but at least he discusses things in good faith. that alone sets him far apart from almost every dissenting opinion on this board.
So you should be allowed to kiss in public but you don’t think same-sex couples should? What makes you more worthy than them?
I come from a family with a father who is a deacon and my brother is a pastor. I'm not here to make sweeping statements condemning everyone who believes in the bible for everything that is in there. I often get into discussions on the topic with my brother and they usually end with me wishing I could allow myself to believe in something the way he believes in God/the bible. However, I cannot intellectually get past many many things that are important to that religion that are either fiction or if they were true paint a picture of omniscient creator that is unbelievably cruel.
I big portion of Jesus’ teachings was aimed at you not trying to decide what is moral and what isn’t. He told you repeatedly that you can not comprehend god’s will. Congrats on missing the whole point of the New Testament just so you can get your little whiny feelings out on a message board. The cast the first stone story applies here. The stone isn’t literal. It’s about passing any judgment on others. Anytime. Even right here right now. You’re not actually Christian. You just picked the parts from either bible that allow you to feel like you’re living life better than others. Just because you’ve taken the stance to not look like a fucking idiot in public by keeping your thoughts on this on a message board doesn’t save you.
It depends. Because are they part of the Law of Moses? And NT Christians are no longer held to follow that? Mick I expect better from you. That's a very simple answer to a very complicated question. I'm not referring to anything in the OT. What reason did they divorce? Adultery, yes, sure. I wear a ring, or will very soon, at least. Yes I ear shrimp. Yes I cut my hair. Yes I shave. Yes I've worked on a Saturday. Yes I own land. Looking forward to the follow up discussion...because we're like three or four exchanges from getting to the meat of all this.
I was gonna say, I appreciate Seavie being here and responding, but it’d be nice if he answered direct straightforward questions.
putting aside the not to abolish the law but to fulfill it and Jesus was a zealotous Jew bits, where in the NT— which is literally just a sequence of allusions to the OT— are you finding the gay prohibition?
Yeah, probably, but I think that's probably skewed by silence. There is plenty of "bad faith" from the consensus on this page. It doesn't make for very stimulating reading.
My gays love who they love. They are not immoral, they are attracted to people with the same parts as them, that’s rad. My in-laws are disgusting RWNJs, my FnL is a twin, his twin has never dated, she’s never even tried to date a guy….you know, that testosterone in the womb….does that matter? So instead of a magic book determining laws…why don’t we look at factual science instead
I feel like we're at the meat? Why are all things OK, things strictly forbidden in the Bible, but homosexuality is immoral? Why is that one clung to and the others just no longer apply? Why do you pick and chose what's still valid and whats not?
And 10-12 years ago it it was the exact opposite. We grew up, we gained empathy. A number of posters unfortunately didn’t and we as a group are better for it even if we wish we could’ve got them to come around and not be racist misogynistic pieces of shit.
How does one read the NT, decide it means the OT doesn’t matter, skip the private property and rich man bit, and get hung up on gay people? American Christianity.
Man, context matters. Again I have to ask (not you but I've asked in general), who in your opinion is the authority on what is "worthy". Not sure I agree with that phrasing, but I think what you mean what is moral. I appreciate you not making sweeping statements. Because this is a very nuanced topic. Jesus said don't judge. People try to say that means don't say something is wrong. What I believe it truly means is don't condemn someone for their actions. God will be the judge of that. Our job is to try and live by what's laid before us. Yet, He gave further clarification, and had other inspired authors give further clarification. You would have a point if He was like "lol see ya". I don't think what I'm doing is "passing judgment". Not in the way it was intended to be taken. You haven't clearly understood me if I think I'm living a life better than others.