No, there has to be a bill passed by congress. Actually it may require 2 bills, one to deal with banking regulations and another to deal with the criminal justice issues. Those 2 bills have been around for at least 6 years, but republicans and centrist want to pass the banking bill and the criminal justice bill afterwards and democrats will not do it because they know that they are full of shit.
I like to think of my taxes with giant eagle’s wings, and singing lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like a debt forgiveness band and I’m in the front row hammered drunk.
For context this is a close family friend, and typical of a lot of people I know. He has a decent union job, but it’s hard physical workin the elements and long hours. The overtime he references is contractually stipulated to be in 4 hour increments, so it’s either the standard 8hr day or 12hrs a day, weekends too. During the pandemic he worked 92x 12hr days in a row - we joke about bootstraps, but this guy is literally taking years off his life to give his kids a better one. He’s not exaggerating the sacrifices he’s made and they live a modestly. Aside from telling him a lot of people aren’t fortunate enough to have a good union job that gives him the opportunity to pay for his kid’s college, I’m not sure how you reconcile what seems kind of unfair on the surface. How would you respond to his thoughts here?
Lots of people work just as hard and don’t have the benefits and backing of a union. Where is their guaranteed overtime pay?
all the crying about "what about me" as if it is not the democrats platform to pass other policies that would improve the lives of the working class that get stonewalled by republicans daily
exactly. For a good chunk of people, it is 10k. Just a small percentage of what it actually cost. Many people are who are having their debt fully or partially wiped out have been making payments for years
Because. Btw how many more disgruntled whites are you gonna dredge up from your shitty Facebook feed? I’m sure you’re gonna convince us that student loan forgiveness is a big mistake eventually.
Id ask him why he is so upset about this and not the $2T in tax cuts for the rich and 700b for “small” business forgiveness? It’s all money going to someone else.
Easy, tell him this will help less people have to do the shit he's had to. If he's so selfish and miserable that he wants everyone else to experience the pain he has, fuck him. If he lost a loved one to cancer, does he not want a cure so others don't have to? So many analogies have been given.
Man he is going to be really pissed off when he finds out about all the other handouts the government gives to rich people and not him too.
But here’s the reason that makes no sense. This is a benefit for people who had to borrow money to go to school. Is he saying his daughter would have been better off going into debt and getting a $10k break but still being in debt, versus graduating without debt? That’s dumb shit thinking.
Best answer I’ve seen. I’m not making a puppet argument here fwiw. I’ve come around on loan forgiveness and particularly have no issue with a means tested application. I can even get behind free education improving society as a whole, but I guess I’m looking for the rational response to people who feel like they made sacrifices for nothing. Just curious how one squares that.
9 trillion in worthless wars 1.2 trillion in a tax cut for rich people 700b small business bailout but 300b for helping pay debt that was largely accumulated in a horrific labor market is too much how fucking stupid are people It’s been making me nuts all day
they didn’t make sacrifices for nothing. 10k doesn’t pay for college and his child has a degree with no debt so that doesn’t seem like nothing.
The government gave him a tax advantaged investment vehicle for tuition which has seen incredible returns after 2008, in which his kid was like 4 years old. Ask him the lifetime ROI of that 529 account and how much he had to pay in taxes for it.
There likely is nothing you can say in a short exchange that will make him be like " Ah yes, I get it now. Youre right". For someone with such a strong stance, it will take time and likely many conversations. I wouldn't try to dunk on him or catch him in some sort of hypocrisy take. Id make a point of saying it sucks you had to sacrifice everything you did to send your child to college. It shouldnt be that way. It also sucks that people are risking their futures going into such debt to get educated. This bill addresses a small part of that. We need educated people in this country, we need to make college more accessible ect. Then bring up the cancer thing or the tax thing NPR said ect That is the route id go, understanding that there really is no singular argument that will get him to agree on the spot.
Just bc you had to do something shitty doesn't mean everyone forever and always should have to. One should be happy others don't have to, not mad that they don't. It's just an incredibly selfish mindset to want everyone else to experience pain bc you had to. I mean I found paper maps in the back seat pockets of our old Jeep last weekend. No GPS was PAIN but I'm not yelling at clouds that people have google maps these days.
I’m also going to assume as a small business owner you were able to take advantage of a PPP loan. So you could always send him over the 100k plus loan balance you had forgiven showing him what real loan forgiveness looks like.
I grew up humble and worked full time while living at home and going to college full time. I received some Pell grant assistance with tuition. Most of my college classmates paid full fare for tuition, whereas at least part of my tuition was paid by a government program. I don’t recall anyone bitching about my tuition assistance back then. And frankly, I would gladly have traded places with the folks who paid full fare and didn’t have to work because their parents footed their bills.
I think I’m going to with the approach that he’s making a lot of presumptions about the type of people being helped, their circumstances. It’s definitely a loaded take that presumes no one else is working hard, making sacrifices themselves, etc.
I actually think it's fruitful conversation to be had. We all enjoy dunking on randos from the internet. However there is value in presenting an alternative and best of all true narrative. Especially to those who you have a personal relationship with. That's how people with bad opinions change their minds and evolve into having good opinions. IF it was just a turd on FB, sure dunk away. When there's a personal relationship, there are valuable convos to be had. Im sure I'll get dunked on for that take but
Not every policy can help every person (although there are consequential effects of the decision beyond the loan repayments which should help limit the spiraling costs of college). But which party is the one that supports labor - particularly unionized labor - and which one actively seeks to destroy bargaining rights? Why should the college graduate working in retail sales or whatever support policies that make the cost of her car go up?
You should bring up the 529 plan. Most people think these programs are just made up by financial institutions rather than created by the government.
facebook posts are almost 100% disingenuous from the start a person on here who has a terrible posting history posting it makes it even less required to give a response
Are you talking to me? I did not, I only have two employees, and as I’ve mentioned before I started right at the beginning of the GFC/housing crash and purposely kept my debt service low my entire career for unforeseen situations just like the pandemic. I’ll do some dodgy shit from time to time, but couldn’t seek a PPP loan in good faith when all of my assets/paper nw mooned.
Not doubting you but a lot of people in your same situation got massive loans and banked them. That’s way worse than helping out millions of poor Americans struggling with debt.
This. He is genuinely a good person, he’s not particularly political, this is the first political adjacent take I’ve ever seen him make. I think he would absolutely listen to reason and swayed by logic if it were laid out for him that his “feelings” are based on falsehoods or lack of understanding on the issue.