Detroit Pistons thread: With the exchange rate that’s a win streak

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, May 19, 2015.

  1. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    A Haliburton/SGA backcourt would look pretty nice right now.... but I'm not giving up on Cade. Still think he could be a stud
     
  2. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    The problem with this post is two fold

    1. The team won't be competitive in part because of decisions this regime made (even if they inherited dog shit)

    2. This team is the one excusing the moves they are making by selling to fans they will be good next year. See Bogdanovic comments, see comments clearly being leaked to the beat writers. Refusing to trade 30+ year old assets that could have got you a return. The team is the one selling this narrative they will be good next year. You can't blame the fans for that. I agree they won't be good, but they are setting themselves up for a ton of backlash next year and they only have themselves to blame. Just like the Tigers this season
     
    Vinegar Strokes likes this.
  3. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    no excuses. 3 top 5 picks, and 7th pick in a 4 year span, you should be competing for a playoff spot at minimum. Weaver has done a poor job constructing this team.

    this whole it takes 6 to 7 years for a rebuild is a crock of shit. What are you, Al Avila? OKC lost the #2 pick in draft, and they’re around .500
     
    Manny likes this.
  4. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    OKC had assets from trading stars and made multiple moves in this time. It’s not even an adequate comparison
     
  5. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    Not trading bogdonavic for russell Westbrook and a 2027 protected first was the biggest move they could have made.
     
  6. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Stop blaming Weaver for Avila sucking.
     
  7. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    I'm not and I'm not even saying Weaver sucks. I'm basically just saying this team better be competitive next year, based on the standards this team themselves set, or he's going to have Avila level heat post 2023-24 season. Make or break time for this regime next year.
     
  8. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Competitive for what?
     
    Tug likes this.
  9. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    They’re not winning more than 30 next year unless they get Wembanyama and he is it
     
  10. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Not a bottom dweller, hell id take a close to .500 team if the young players actually played well. Look I'm not holding this team to any standard they aren't setting themselves. They've said they can be really good next year. I'm just expecting a significant step forward. The team can't look like this another year and have people be OK with it

    How long you going to give Weaver to assemble a decent team? How many guys is he going to draft and not improve here before you start questioning him?
     
  11. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    I like the nucleus of Cade, Jaden, Duren and 2023 Top 5 pick going forward. I'm not sure I give a shit whether we got a protected 2027 first round pick from a playoff team for Bogey or Bey this year. If Weaver thinks Bogey and Burks are better to help that nucleus win more games next year, that's fine. There are clearly too many 5s on this roster and no real 4s, which I believe will be a point of emphasis this summer.

    Whether or not I'm questioning Weaver is a red herring. I don't think Weaver has a master plan that all these moves fit into where if it's not a linear progression he's failed. I'll see how it looks next fall and winter and let you know if I think somebody else would be better to get the roster from point B to point C.
     
    Randy Bobandy likes this.
  12. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    keep making excuses. There is no reason this team should be a 30 win team with 3 top 5 picks, and some of largest cap space available.
     
  13. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    I hope this team is good next year. I'm not saying Weaver is terrible. I'm just saying I'm not 100% sold on him anymore. I think we all agree next year is a major season for this staff/roster. I'm just not seeing the progress to make me think they magically get good next year beyond Weaver getting lottery luck twice in three years
     
  14. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    I don't disagree with this, other than the fact that it seems like it usually takes NBA players a few years to develop. Cade should be there, but missed almost an enitre season. Ivey and Duren are raw.
     
  15. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Look if Cade comes back next year and looks like a future star, Ivey and Duren look better and improve and the rookie shows promise and they only win 35 games only i think most people would be OK with that.

    Problem is there isn't too much sign for hope right now. And a large part is Cades injury and a huge question mark over him. But we are year 3 of Weaver first rookie class and one got worse every year and we dumped, one has regressed and doesn't appear to have more than a future as a bench big and the third and highest drafted one looks not very good and was taken over a guy who looks like a star. This class is still TBD but Ivey has been fine and Duren shows promise. Again we'll have to see next year
     
  16. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    I’m not making excuses, you’re not looking at reality. No one expected this team to be good this year. No one should expect this team to be good next year.
     
  17. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    It's fine for a fan to think like this. But it's not good for a GM to think like this. And I think, so far, Weaver has shown to be below average when it comes to the small, in the margins type of stuff. And it's part of the reason why the team really sucks right now without Cade.

    And, in the end, if Cade, Ivey, Duren and this summer's pick hit the way we hope, maybe that stuff won't matter and Weaver can laugh at everyone about it. But if you're going to ignore the "in the margins" value that other successful orgs are significantly better than you at exploiting, it puts an enormous amount of pressure on you to hit home runs on the big stuff. And that's hard to do.
     
  18. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    I’m probably overly pessimistic here, and because I always compared Cade to Brandon Roy, I’m not going to expect him to be 100% next year
     
  19. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    OKC got SGA, who has been traded 2x already, and 7 1sts for Paul George.

    We got Dennis smith Jr and a second for Derrick Rose. Comparing the rebuilds without considering this is a misrepresentation
     
  20. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    "In the East, if you want to compete and have a chance, you'd better have some big guys," Weaver said. "The top four teams in the East — Boston, Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Cleveland — if we want a chance to compete in the East, look at those teams. They’re all top-12 defense and they’re all big."
     
    Tug likes this.
  21. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    OKC also didn’t have 3 top 5 picks. And weaver turned down SGA and the 6th pick for Cade.
     
    RalfBully likes this.
  22. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Again you keep saying that, but the team is the one setting that expectation so you can't blame fans for holding them to it.
     
    Vinegar Strokes likes this.
  23. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    I don't necessarily need them to be good next year. But if they held on to Burks and Bogdanovic when they had legit value to win 25-30 games again next year, that would fall in the category of "wasted opportunity".
     
    DetroitNole likes this.
  24. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    Stop believing Jam3s 3dwards
     
  25. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    They have had 6 first round picks the past two years and they started with players that could play basketball. We had Jahlil Okafor on the roster
     
  26. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    “Having conversations with the club, Troy (Weaver), and the owners, they assured me that we’re going to be great next year,” Bogdanovic told HoopsHype.

    I guess I was even underselling it at very good, Weaver is saying great
     
    #7976 DetroitNole, Feb 10, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2023
  27. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    OKC has also developed Lu Dort, which the Pistons have not done to this point with anyone under Weaver.

    OKC has consistently been willing to move things around to acquire more assets and opportunities for themselves. They have consistently recognized the right time to make moves and struck when given the opportunity. They've used their cap space and minutes available to help them in this regard. For example, I don't think OKC risks the opportunity to turn Bogdanovic and Burks into more assets. They would have traded them at this deadline while they had value. And Detroit could be proven correct in doing what it did. But this is an area where OKC's success goes beyond "they started with more".
     
    Tug likes this.
  28. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    I agree with all of this. I don’t think Burks has the value we think he does. I’m afraid we held on to Bojan because of the Cade injury
     
    MG2 likes this.
  29. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    I don't think Burks was getting a 1st rounder or anything. He's a bench guy. But I think he gets you at least 2-3 decent second rounders, and I think Weaver overpriced both he and Bogdanovic on the market (similar to what Avila did for years in Detroit) to the point where I think teams just went elsewhere to deal with more reasonable people.

    And, again, if Bogdanovic and Burks come back next year and help Cade/Ivey/Duren/1st rounder grow and we win 35-40 games, that's fine. But keeping them around for next year adds to the idea that next year needs to be a pretty significant jump because otherwise you're just wasting time, money and potential assets.
     
    DetroitNole likes this.
  30. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Big game for the tank tonight
     
  31. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    Spurs are sitting 4 of their 5 starting 5. Jones, Langford, Sochan, Johnson are all out tonight lol. And just traded their starting C Poeltl so really its the whole starting 5.
     
    Vinegar Strokes, DetroitNole and Tug like this.
  32. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
    Donor

    Our GM has no clue what he's doing

     
    Lip, Tug, DetroitNole and 1 other person like this.
  33. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    And that's not even counting Vassell whose probably their best or 2nd best player whose been out a month. Despite all that we are only 5.5 pt favorites at home
     
  34. Gustavo Fring

    Gustavo Fring Feelin' rosy.
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit TigersUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

  35. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Ha
     
  36. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor



    Whole point of trade for their perspective was to save a shit ton of money, so they may still not call it off
     
    Gustavo Fring likes this.
  37. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    Exactly. Didn’t they save like $90 million bucks.
     
  38. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Playing worst defensive team in league, thought I'd check in to see how young guys looking....start 1-10 shooting
     
  39. DetroitIrish3

    DetroitIrish3 Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Pistons

    Troy is batting like 50% when trading for 7 footers due to failed physicals from someone somewhere
     
    Tug likes this.
  40. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit LionsGeorge Washington Colonials

    Why are these dudes failing physicals? Even Tug can pass a physical and he hasn’t left the house in 3 years
     
  41. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Hayes and Ivey 1/14 shooting against the worst defense in the leagues backups
     
  42. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    St3w has made 8 of his last 54 3s. Still shooting 5+ a game
     
    Tug likes this.
  43. The Subspace Mariner

    The Subspace Mariner Well-Known Member

    quantum-leap.gif
     
  44. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Duren awesome, everyone else woof
     
  45. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    just wait for Wiseman to mess with all the progress he made this year
     
  46. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Bogdanovic is in the awesome category too
     
  47. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Killian as a rookie
    6.8/5.3/2.7 on 35/27/82 shooting splits
    Killian year 3
    9.7/5.8/2.7 on 37/31/78 shooting splits

    He's basically the same player just taking 2.5 more shots a game

    Bey as rookie
    12.2/4.5/1.4 on 40/38/84 splits
    Bey year 3
    14.8/4.7/1.6 on 40/34/86 splits

    Basically same player taking almost 2 shots a game and 2 more FTA per game

    Stew 7.9/6.7/1.3 blk as a rookie shooting 55%
    Stew year 3 11.3/8.2/.7 blk shooting 43%
    Basically same player playing 7 more minutes and taking 3 more shots a game and jacking 3s now to lower his shooting %

    Interesting question to ask is are we drafting guys who just can't improve or is our staff so shit that we can't develop anyone?
     
  48. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    I think all 3 of them just suck. Bey and Stewart weren’t expected to amount for much based on where they were drafted though. How many guys drafted outside of top 15 pan out?

    Hayes is the one that Weaver needs to get some heat on. Halliburton was consensus top guy available based on every draft website.
     
    RalfBully, Lip and Tug like this.
  49. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Detroit LionsDetroit PistonsMichigan State Spartans

    I agree with all of this except Halliburton being consensus top guy
     
    Randy Bobandy likes this.
  50. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Haliburton was higher on most boards with the athletic being the notable exception. Remember draft analysts calling that pick out at the time.

    And I'm not expecting Stew or Bey to be great, just saying all threes lack of improvement especially Stew and Killian who were younger may be some of this is on terrible coaching too. Worst mistake may have been leaving casey to coach this young team