If your definition of falling in line is voting to prevent what we currently have, then I guess therein lies our disagreement. I delineate between unification behind the better option that gives the party and/or liberal agenda the most room to breathe and falling in line. You, obviously, do not. And that’s quite alright.
Okay, so now that we've realized we're not curing racism in 3 years, maybe we can get back to my original point - nominate inspiring candidates that make people want to get out and vote. The more the DNC tries to force milquetoast shitheads on us, the more they're going to lose elections. Am I wrong?
You're not wrong, the DNC shouldn't try and force anyone on us. The primary voters should decide who they want and if its a milquetoast candidate, I will line up and vote for them regardless.
There’s a larger problem that the electorate and the media overly focus on personality vs policy and competency. This is nothing new, and it probably won’t change soon. In 2000 it was, would you rather have a beer with Bush or Gore, and Gore also sighed at a debate. From a purely objective cold analysis, Trump had/has a much more dynamic and interesting personality than Clinton. Strip away the personalities and Clinton had a reasonably solid domestic and foreign policy agenda, and would have valued competency in her cabinet and across the slate of nominated positions. Trump had an overtly frightening and destructive set of policy proposals, and placed zero premium on competence. What I don’t understand is why this contrast wasn’t sufficiently inspirational to some voters.
For sure. When you look at Obama vs Clinton, they're both centrist politicians whose policies do nothing for labor, but Obama won big because he was likable.
I am given three options by the point a candidate like that gets to the General 1) vote for them and hope that we can effect change within their platform 2) vote for the GOP because I want the world to burn 3) stay at home pouting because I didnt get my way I will always choose option 1 as I believe even a flawed Dem candidate is better than the best GOP candidate and I believe active civic engagement is necessary for a functioning democracy. If I get lied to or things dont turn out how I think they should, I will try to learn from that and press for future changes from my Senators and Representatives.
TBH if the bar for Dems is an inspiring candidate that will make us get out and vote, then things look grim. There isn’t anyone I can think of that has that broad inspirational appeal or cult of personality across all the Dem constituencies. I think a bland centrist will do just fine. Trump fatigue will be so high and there will more likely than not be a recession before Nov 2020. Just about any solid Dem should be able to win. Same set up as 08, except for Russia interference and pending voter supression efforts.
his point is that yes bland candidate with boring policies might beat Trump in '20 but without strong policies and being able to show something for their efforts backing a candidate you breed voter apathy and contempt for the entire political system which plays directly into the GOP's hands you need to be able to say vote for me and we'll have medicare for all, then deliver that you can't run on "I won't be racist, but I'll be ten degrees left of the crazy racist candidate but you won't really feel a difference, but again I won't be racist" and expect to drive enthusiasm or life long support
Republicans may be racist pieces of shit owned by their billionaire overlords but at least they aren't stand for nothing pussies. Treating the populace with kid gloves is a bullshit strategy that won't fucking work
They quite literally stand for nothing except racial resentment. They have no coherent policy positions. Also everyone itt is massively underselling just how much damage Russia did.
That's standing for exactly one more thing than a bland centrist platform designed to catch votes from all sides stands for
I’m skeptical that a Medicare for all platform would prevail in 2020. Easy target for Fox and the conservative machine, to paint that as socialism, even if it’s really about extending health care as a right to all Americans. The GOP and Fox do a great job with propaganda and opposing what are perceived as far left policies. Now at some point UBI and Medicare for all will definitely be winners, when automation crushes the workforce in the late 2020s into the 2030s.
The 2020 set up is different than 2016. Trump could be in the 20s or low 30s approval range, and we will likely be in a recession. He’s not going to replicate his voting bloc in 2020, no chance in hell. I’d love to see a younger inspirational Dem with progressive ideas as the candidate, but nobody jumps to mind.
Ask the most reliably core Dem constituency, aka Blacks, about centrism and pragmatism vs a wild swing to the left. They will take bland and predictable, every single time.
Hyperbole. The GOP is also the party of (unreasonably) low taxes, it’s been central to their platform for decades.
you don't cater to fox voters I'd bet money the Dem nominee will campaign on Medicare for All at a minimum Hillary campaigned on a public option ffs
Most Blacks would likely remain loyal Dems if the party tacks hard left, but you risk losing Dems closer to the center, independents, and swingy Republicans. Again, the electorate as a whole is more like Alabama than it is Vermont or Seattle.
I'll say this. I'm roughly the same age as indeed, but for as much as milleanials complain about being characterized a certain way, you guys have no qualms doing the same. I really don't care for the overall argument. Just making a point.
I don't give a fuck about any of the votes lost. Fuck em. Energizing the population with policies that will actually make a tangible difference in their lives will more than make up for that loss.
I will say that even though the situations are different, you're starting to (hopefully) see the same happening for the GOP. They have created apathy, but it's leading to activism. IF (bigly here) the DNC gets their shit together, they can turn the tide. Virginia and Alabama showed them people, if given something to fight for, will fight. My fear is that they will learn nothing and expect votes or of anger, which might work in the short term, but not the long.
Not sure all this externalizing at the DNC, and also hoping for it to save us, makes much sense. I just don’t think the national committee of either party is the primary factor in an election. But it makes for a good target if you are unhappy with the result. Also, Virginia was more about an anti Trump turnout. Northam was a pretty uninspiring candidate. Which supports my point that if trends hold we don’t need a cult of personality to prevail in 20.