That was fun. Guessing the foray into other parks will be pretty limited, but Shogun World was my shit.
I love the roll language plays across the show. The Shogun burning his mens ears shut and Maeve being the witch was just excellent. And they keep building on the hosts "finding their voice."
With how much it was hyped, it didnt let down. Great episode. Maeve and Dolores with different forms of consciousness are great story lines.
i was loving the episode but when that hit i lost my shit i still have no idea what i’m watching this season, but i fucking love it
It's amusing watching the writer defend his repurposing of Westworld characters and storylines. Funny watching another safe robbery unfold in the other world.
This. She’s on a mission and teddy letting the federales go when she told him to kill them (after the comment to the colonel saying whatever it was about her people doing whatever she asked) and him still holding on to that romantic side of just getting away together... teddy about to be reprogrammed into super soldier
Pop in and out of this thread so SIAP if been discussed - Delores plot line is so slow and deliberate it's starting to lose me. She seems more like a cult zealot than someone operating of her own free will. Any thoughts about this still being Ford's program, and not actually sentient like Maeve?
I’m apparently in the minority but I thought last nights episode was the weakest of the season so far. Shogun world just didn’t do much for me to be honest. I did love the fact that storylines are reused world to world, and the robbery scene is shogun is exactly the same note for note as the one in West world, so there were some things I liked but it just wasn’t my favorite.
Similarly, I found myself questioning whether the character has been so one-note as to be flawed, versus being reflective of a thoughtful depiction of the limits of a host's emotional range given its new self-awareness or sense of mission, if you will. But Maeve certainly stands at odds with the later possibility, and with all of that said - Dolores is becoming annoying to me. :/
My main complaint is when I get excited at "Nudity" and it ends up being some dead guys dicks instead of Dolores or the geishas Spoiler still enjoyed the dead dicks
agree with it not being my favorite episode. I think there were a couple important and interesting things that took place, but overall felt like an episode to stall the overall plot a bit. Shogun World in general didnt do it for me as much as I was hoping it might. Also, and this is more of a personal opinion, but I just see the idea of that world to be unrealistic in comparison. In westworld guns make sense as you can make the bullets not real, but how could you have a real sword fight battle and have it work logistically? Dont get me wrong, you have to suspend disbelief on alot of things with this show, but this one just bothered me for some reason.
This season has been heavy on the necrodicks and very very light (none?) on the living tit. If we didnt get it with the geisha, I'm guessing we're in the dick zone for the rest of this season.
We know Maeve is sentient because she was programmed to sneak out of the park, and chose not to. We think Dolores is because she shot Ford after some prodding to be 'awake' . Her shooting Ford with perfect timing in his speech plus her just being zombie like makes me think she's still running ford's program, instead of being fully sentient. Again, this has probably all been discussed. apologies.
Was Teddy not one of the dead bodies in the room that Bernard was staring at towards the beginning of the episode? After they fished him outta the lake?
I agree with everything said about Dolores. She was so complex last season and she’s really the exact opposite now. We are halfway through the season and she is basically in the same place she was in the first episode. Imo, her most intriguing storyline is with William. They need to get them together.
I’m with some of y’all on the Dolores storyline this season. I’m not sick of it, but more impatient with it. Like cmon get to the point we know.
Maybe because the leader was broken (leaking cortical fluid) she couldn't use Wi-Fi Direct to hack into him or the commands simply didn't work regardless? Not entirely sure. I enjoyed the episode but compared to last week it was definitely weak. It's tough to follow what was possibly the best episode of the series but the standstill of Dolores' story and the present day stuff (when the real cavalry has arrived and is trying to clean up and figure out what exactly happened) didn't help. Because of the way they chose to tell that story though with the 2 week jump post-gala massacre and back they can't progress either of those too much without giving away a lot of what is, given this pacing, going to be closer to the conclusion of this season.
Last week's episode was incredible. This week's episode was great, but really just so different from the season 2 episode road map. These first 4 episodes were like the slow and steady reveal from all of the stuff that was left open ended from season 1 with sparse morsels of unique season 2 additions. This episode felt just opposite. It felt like an early episode from season 1 because there was a lot of new discoveries and a whole new world arc to play out. Yes, it was revealed somewhat in the finale of season 1, but I really didn't think they'd delve in so deeply, spending the vast majority of at least an episode on it. I was expecting something similar to the time spent in the India Colonial world. As always, I really enjoyed the music a lot as it continues to be incredible. I do want Delores's storyline to speed up. There are parts of me that feel like we know the ending because of what we know, however, I know I'm going to be totally fooled which is why I love the show. I also keep waiting on the earlier Bernard timeline to catch up to the later Bernard timeline. It's really brilliant how they do that. I think you're onto something. Somehow they track down and get Bernard back, plant Teddy's brain in him, and wait for the world to burn.
How do you know that Maeve chose not to sneak out of the park? I don't know that we know that at all. Not that is means much but here is my take on that scene from the finale...at the time it seemed that some others itt agreed. Honestly I think at best it is unclear and we really don't know the answer to the train thing yet JMO but I find Maeve to be the far less sentient than Dolores. Dolores and Teddy realize that many of their feelings are not quite real. They are clearly struggling with whether their attachments,beliefs, and feelings are genuine or if they are programmed to feel certain ways. Dolores highlighted that by revealing that she has been uneasy and questioning about her feelings for Teddy. Maeve can't yet get around this. Despite the fact that she has been told countless times...seemingly every episode...that her daughter is not real...that she is a robot and clearly can't give birth...she does not seem to have the ability to comprehend that yet. Dolores and Teddy arrived at that point of understanding long ago, though Dolores obviously seems more liberated than Teddy.
If Maeve was programmed to never leave the park, then what is the point of her whole S01 story line? Just to create chaos?
This is my biggest issue with the show. Even though Dolores' timeline seems to lack direction, I can at least understand her motivation. She's been played a fool her entire life and is pissed off. Maeve's motivation makes ZERO sense. I hope they can reconcile it at the end of the season. Either she's a robot who is still programmed or, maybe, given the way the show has been trending, she's the "real person brain implanted in a host" that Bernard was sent to retrieve. Spoiler Though, through reading about this show too much, I'm worried it has been spoiled for me that the "brain" was Arnold's
I don't think we really know yet. Perhaps to illustrate/explore whether these androids can truly have free will? That seems to be a major theme of this season and one we are currently exploring If Maeve is truly 100% sentient then why is she totally incapable of understanding that it is impossible for her to have a daughter? Almost as if she's programmed to be that way and she can't shake it, no matter how many times she's told that it is impossible...
I also felt like last night was one of the weaker episodes of the series. I love this show but it is losing some steam for me. I would like a few more answers....trying to be patient but it is currently running thin. We spend most of Maeve's half of the episode following around some weird parallel situation with her and her daughter. It was somewhat cool, but I just didn't really care about that Sakura girl. I wonder it is may be a mistake to expand the world beyond Westworld this soon. I just feel like it's a bit soon to be bringing in an entirely new world and new characters when so much is left undone in Westworld. I would have been totally fine to leave the focus/setting there until a few more things are tied up and we start bringing in even more tangents. But we will see where they go with it...just seems a little soon for now. It felt to me like we spent 30-40 min watching the plot screech to a halt just to show off yet another God Mode power of Maeve. She currently has plot armor that would make Ramsay Bolton blush and I agree with southlick that it would be nice to have her face some real adversity for once. But now that she has added fucking mind control to her god-like powers I have no idea how she's gonna be stopped? Dolores' descent into this dark figure is also a little tiring. I understand her motivations but I'm not sure a character like hers going THIS black hat is really working. All in all I just need a little forward movement with the plot, and just a tad more answers, and all in all I thought we got very few of them on Sunday/very little movement forward. The payoffs have been worth it up to this point, but I am growing a little tired of every fucking thing on the show be shrouded in mystery. Again, trying to be patient, but it's wearing thin.
In regards to Maeve and a couple of the last comments made ITT - it was shown on the IPad computer in season one that she was programmed to do a "mainland invasion (or something similar). So its pretty much been confirmed that she was programmed to stay on the train and chose to go find her daughter - with her daughter, Maeve knows and understands its not her "real" daughter and that it was a narrative she was in. But the whole point, and its something that Lee continues to be astonished at, is that narratives, feelings and thoughts are evolving. Maeve knows she isnt her real daughter, but through the experiences, pain, love, anger and even deaths, she has a history with her and loves her because of it. Its similar to how her and Hector have fallen in love. They are becoming sentient and developing their own feelings, its her choice to love he daughter. - Lastly, I think that the show is making it a point to express the different ways a sentient Host can react to the world. Dolores was abused, used and murdered all those times. She is responding in anger and wants to destroy everything. Maeve is happy to be alive and is just looking to get the people most important to her and escape to a quiet life.
Spoiler Also, hate to spam the thread, but iirc weren't Felix and combover really shocked that they were able to set Maeve's setting far beyond what should have been allowed? Unless I am remembering that wrong. There is something very special about Maeve and maybe she is the 3D print human that some other poster was speculating about. Dolores apparently has a tablet rn and I guess doesn't have the ability to create another GodMaeve? For some reason Maeve was able to wake up on the "operating table" and have her abilities set far beyond what any other android should be capable of. That is why I think she is still some kind of tool for Ford...she was given these attributes for some reason and imo she is fulfilling some task that Ford or someone else wants her to do. All speculation but that is why I am on the "Maeve doesn't truly have free will" train.
Spoiler: My thoughts on the Bernard theory also, I am very against the theory that its Teddys mind in Bernards body in the flash forwards/present timeline. I didnt believe it to begin with, but after this last week it makes even less sense since she has basically lobotomized him. I do think theres a very real chance that its actually Arnolds mind in Bernards body when he wakes up on the beach. Its likely he and Ford knew that it was possible to clone minds and put them into hosts even back then. I also wouldnt be shocked if they had been experimenting with it. So him waking up on the beach, being self aware but also so confused at whats actually happened seems plausible
Yeah the bolded is a good point. Also the last bullet point is also a good one. Very similar to the first or second episode where MIB has to choose white hat or black hat. Seems like Dolores going big time black, Maeve maybe the opposite. I prob need to rewatch the last 3-4 eps of season 1 and the train scene to jog my memory. But iirc Felix/Combover's comments/connotations in the train scene is what make me think that she was meant to get off the train. But I'll probably have to rewatch.
Agree. I think it's very clear that Maeve is much more sentient than Dolores. Maeve knows the girl is not her real daughter and still loves her daughter and finds more truth in that love than freedom. She is willing to throw away "freedom" in order to be with what she perceives as her daughter. I believe that's a much more human emotion that just blind revenge.
Call me crazy but I find revenge to be much more “human emotion” than a nonsensical attachment to an idea that has no basis in reality. In reality, Maeve does not have a daughter. The idea that she has a daughter only exists in the code that she has implanted in her. That fantasy she continues to harbor is about as far from human as you can get but that’s just me I don’t know.... again just a lot of questions that reasonable minds can differ on that we don’t truly have clear answers for and that is what is becoming a bit tiring. Hopefully we get a little more clarity soon