Detroit Tigers Thread: Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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  2. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Jesus fucking hell
     
  3. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Man that sucks. Probably pushes up the time frame for when we could see Funkhouser and Burrows this year.
     
  4. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Fuck that, the season is long enough.
     
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  5. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    I should have added that I would have the WS start the beginning of October.
     
  6. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Lose for Hughes?
     
  7. Brocktoon

    Brocktoon Well-Known Member
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    while not ideal, this isn't the end of the world. Fulmer getting this fixed and being set back 12-18 months while they aren't competitive won't hurt the team much and probably fits their timeline better anyway. Plus good recovery and he probably has more trade value than last year when teams began to question if he just isn't that good.
     
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  8. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    I get what you're saying, but...he's essentially missing the next 2 seasons. Even if "healthy" next year, his arm won't be near 100%.
     
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  9. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    Are we sure about that? TJS feels almost standard at this point. Guys come back pretty strong w/in a year I thought. Why cant he be pitching by June 20?
     
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  10. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Maybe he can. And I'm sure it's a lot better.

    But I can't imagine his arm will be at it's normal strength at that point or at any point that season. I could be way off though.
     
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  11. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Embrace the tank baby. This is a great day. Suck for whatever guy is top prospect
     
  12. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Scouts have been saying since Fulmer came up that he would be getting injured. He’s a fat fuck, with horrible throwing motion.
     
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  13. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    Fat fucks have no arm durability.

    - Mickey Lolich.
     
  14. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    This guy is a bigger fat fuck

    [​IMG]

    Is Fulmer going to be working at 7 Eleven in 15 years?
     
  15. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    Denny was lean when he pitched. And his durability was entirely based on steroid shots.
     
  16. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
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    Vin has never heard of Lolich. Give him a break.
     
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  17. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    Thing is his throwing motion looks pretty standard to my eye. Wonder what it was they didnt like about him, but then a really unorthodox RHP motion like Scherzer can pile up 200 IPs in to his mid 30s :idk:
     
    #6217 Joe Louis, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  18. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    Yup. Dbacks gave up on Scherzer because they didn't think they could fix him and he was gonna break down quickly. I still recall how pissed my Dback fan brother was when they flipped him to us.
     
  19. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    You can find scouts to say that that every power pitcher coming up is going to get injured because, at this point, most of them do get injured.
     
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  20. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    I thought it was 18 months until full strength, but that might be outdated.

    Does his service time stall?
     
  21. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    It's 12-14 months to be able to throw at full strength, usually. Seems like it usually takes another 6-12 months to get back to normal in terms of command and such.

    Don't think his service time stalls because they can't send him to the minors with the injury. He'll go on the 60 day and we get relief on the 40 man roster.
     
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  22. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    He’s probably out until at least July 2020. Any chance he’s non tendered?
     
  23. MG2

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    no
     
  24. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Tigers are cheap as fuck. And Avila has no idea what he’s doing.
     
  25. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    You've been pissed off all offseason about how they weren't cheap enough when signing these FAs to one year deals, and it seems like you're the one in favor of non-tendering him.
     
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  26. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    I guess if we can get him for $3mi or less that will be fine
     
  27. MG2

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    It will be less than $5M, and 30 teams in the league would pay that.
     
  28. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    He'll get a shitload less than a Tyson Ross did from us this year, and probably not much more than Matt Moore's $2.5M.
     
  29. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    It shouldn’t go up from this year. Tigers would win that easily in arbitration.
     
  30. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    That's not necessarily how arbitration works, but I'm not exactly sure what happens in these situations so I don't know for sure.
     
  31. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    It would take a heap of balls for the Tigers to offer less than they offered this year, and a heap of balls for Team Fulmer to ask for more than he got this year.
     
  32. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Arbitration works to keep salaries down. Your first year, you're supposed to make about 40% of what arb considers your market value to be. In year 2, it's around 60%. I'm guessing his team will argue that, even with the injury, his value from his first 3 seasons makes him worth more than $3M or whatever he got. I don't know how all that works, but arbitration isn't just a 1-year thing. Your entire career is part of it.
     
  33. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    Without knowing how it has been treated in the past, the argument that a player's value stayed the the same over a year passing where he didn't record a statistic for an entire MLB year while being paid and accumulating service time seems specious. So I guess the question is whether the downtime means his market value went down enough to offset the percentage increase. But part of his FMV would be his team control, and he just burned a chunk of it sitting out 2019 and getting back into it in 2020.
     
  34. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Arbitration is weird and you can only argue certain things, so I don't know how it would work in this case.

    If his agents are able to do this, though, they could argue that the value of pitchers coming off TJ in FA has gone up significantly in recent years. Garrett Richards just got 2/$15M this winter from SD despite them knowing he's going to miss 2019. Michael Pineda got 2/$10M a year ago from Minnesota in the same situation. If they can argue that, I would think that helps him.
     
  35. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    As I reported previously...

     
  36. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    Might kop in my dynatsy league. Have Manning too based on your rec :gfa:
     
  37. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Don't put that evil on me.

    I think Turnbull is at best a good set up man long term. I wouldn't expect much. Definitely seems like they like him, though, and his arm has really come on since the middle of last season after TJ and other arm issues earlier in his career. He's a former 2nd round pick, but he's already 26 and has been in the system forever.
     
  38. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    I wanted Manning anyways. Fits my window to stay competitive the next 2/3 years ...
     
  39. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Some draft stuff before the season. We pick fifth. There's a consensus top 2 currently, followed by a big group after them.

    Adley Rutschman, C - consensus top player, he's going #1 overall barring a massive change
    Andrew Vaughn, 1B - consensus #2 player currently destroying the Pac 12 (.414/.580/.793 with 7 HR and 8 K). He's likely going #2

    CJ Abrams, SS - HS SS likely to move to CF or 2B with a lot of speed
    Bobby Witt Jr., SS - Likely to stick at SS, but a lot of questions about his bat and he's really old for a HS eligible
    Bryson Stott, SS - UNLV kid likely to stick at SS who can hit well enough to be a top of the order guy
    Corbin Carroll, OF - HS CF whose profile reads a lot like Kelenic's from last year, only smaller with a little more speed
    Kameron Misner, OF - Mizzou athlete who was hurt last year but good to start this year and could end up at CF, RF or 1B
    Riley Greene, OF - HS corner OF who is a really good hitter, but some think isn't athletic enough and doesn't have enough pop
    Michael Busch, OF - UNC corner OF who is probably more polished than Misner, but not as athletic or projectable
    Josh Jung, 3B - Texas Tech 3B with power but might have to move to 1B
    J.J. Bleday, OF - Vandy corner OF who was really good on the Cape and in the top 10 range

    We haven't taken a SS in the first or second rounds in the last 15 years, I believe, so no one thinks we'll take Abrams, Witt or Stott right now. Current best guess would be one of Misner, Jung or Bleday, based on previous history, although Greene and Carroll are both interesting guys depending on what they're looking for. Currently there aren't any pitchers who would be considered consensus top 10 picks, let alone top 5.
     
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  40. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Are you a baseball America member?
     
  41. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Not anymore. They cover the stuff after the top 100 better than anyone, but I didn't care about enough of the stuff the other months to subscribe year-round. There's so much other stuff now with Fangraphs, Law, MLBPipeline and others for free or cheap.
     
  42. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Yeah I was just looking at fan graphs top 100. They have Stott at 5. I would take a SS in this draft class.
     
  43. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Quit saving your money for that Emily Waldon cam that isn’t ever happening and get your own BA sub.
     
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  44. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I would be surprised, but think that would be a good pick. If I had to bet on a guy right now, I think it would be Misner. The Tigers love the SEC and college hitters, although Misner has fallen off a bit after a really hot start.

    The guys I have the hardest time with them on are Abrams, Greene and Carroll. Carroll seems least likely, given his size, being from Washington and previous history. Some people really like Greene (fangraphs guys think he could be Kirilloff, while Law has him outside the top 15). Abrams' report reads a lot like Royce Lewis from a couple years ago.
     
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  45. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Box Score Girl get it right.
     
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  46. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    I’m already looking at 2020 mocks. Suck for Spencer Torkelson
     
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  47. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    Bro she she single handedly forced MLB in to paying minor leaguers more. Perhaps the most influential writer in all of baseball. Show some respect ...
     
  48. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Minor league baseball players make more money than Emily Waldron.
     
  49. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Avila says Mize is starting the season in Lakeland and high A ball. Hoping he bumps up to Erie quickly because a Mize, Manning, Perez, Faedo rotation would be fun.
     
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  50. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Fire Avila. What is this year 4 of the rebuild?

     
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