Why do I think 9 betrayed the OT? Resurrecting Palpatine or making him never have died in the first place completely undermines the redemption story of 4-5-6. It also makes 7&8 not make any sense. It’s the shittiest plot point of the entire series and is wildly inconsistent with every other bit of storytelling in the saga. Add to that the god awful pacing that doesn’t give you a moment to breathe and you have a truly horrrible film. Also, he put Kylo back in the fucking helmet. Jesus Christ that’s a profoundly awful bit of filmmaking that is all about infighting with Rian instead of just accepting 8 and building on it. I really fucking hate 9. I’m just going to pretend the saga ended at 8 going forward.
I don't understand how it undermines the redemption story of the OT since that story wasn't about killing Palpatine.
It’s a real shame that Rey Jedi scene didn’t end with Samuel L Windu screaming “bitch, use the force!”
It very much is. The empire. The evil in Vader. Badness itself. All are embodied in the singular form of Palpatine. Destroying him is how all of those things are defeated.
Exactly. Otherwise it's like someone went back and re-edited shit figuring someone else would write a book or comic to have stories that filled in shit that could've been explained in the movie.
I finally found the critique that best summarizes my own about why all of the emotional elements fall so flat. The movie centers the viewer as the protagonist in their own love of the universe rather than Rey as the protagonist in a battle against evil or internal conflict. Almost all of the big story beats are aimed at viewer response rather than treating the characters as thoughtful, breathing creations. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...otter-box-office-disappointment/#748464eb261c relevant snippet: Spoiler Rise of Skywalker tragically puts plot over character and emphasizes the abstract over the specific. When Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part II had the ghosts of Voldemort's victims come back to push Harry through a grim moment, it resonated because Harry knew and mourned these people. When Dumbledore’s ghost came back to Harry in a kind of lucid dream and offered final wisdom, it mattered because Harry knew and mourned this man. When the “snapped” heroes return in the action climax of Avengers: Endgame, it means something because A) we know these characters and B) Captain America, Iron Man and/or Thor know these characters. Sure, not every Avenger knows every other Avenger (I’m pretty sure Steve Rogers has never met Stephen Strange), but there is a developed relationship between the surviving heroes and the resurrected champions. But when the ghosts of the Jedi speak to Rey to get her to “rise up,” it’s an abstract concept because she barely knows (or has even heard of) any of these folk. The wizard duel in Harry Potter 7.2 is a personal culmination of seven years of struggle between Harry and Riddle. For Rey, Palpatine is just an abstract final boss. When Han Solo appears in a memory/vision to Kylo Ren, it barely registers because A) we had no idea of what their relationship was before Ben became evil and B) it’s clearly there for elicit a reaction from the audience as opposed to the character. And when Lando shows up at just the right moment with legions of support ships, it’s an entirely different concept because, save for Lando and a few others, Poe and his Resistance pals don’t know these people. That’s why attempts to replicate Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part II and Avengers: Endgame fell so flat. So many of the plot turns, visuals and character reveals are intended to register with the audience, specifically original trilogy die-hards, as opposed to with the characters. The reveals that John Harrison is Khan in Star Trek Into Darkness (a much better J.J. Abrams sequel) and that Franz Oberhauser was Bofeld in Spectre meant nothing to James Kirk or James Bond but were meant to inspire audience excitement. It’s not unlike how Batman v Superman bet DC Films’ future that the mere idea of Batman and Superman teaming up with Wonder Woman (all in the abstract) to stop a giant monster would elicit cheers equal to when the Avengers, who knew each other had earned the respect of the audience, united to stop Loki’s invasion. Putting aside story decisions I disagreed with (like negating Rey’s whole “you don’t have to be important or have had parents who loved you to be special” arc or turning Poe into a jerk who kinda hates Rey), and the preponderance of things (like the story of Leia’s light saber) being explained or elaborated upon that required no such extra details (a problem shared with It Chapter Two), the thing that sticks out from The Rise of Skywalker, beyond the patchy construction of the movie itself, is how much of it is meant to elicit audience excitement merely from abstract tropes and theoretical Star Wars nostalgia as opposed to from what the beats mean to the characters. And, yes, this includes writing the film around Carrie Fisher’s deleted Force Awakens footage, which turns the first reel into Plan 9 from Outer Space. It’s the difference between the abstract (Batman and Superman are meeting up!) and the specific (Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Chris Hemsworth’s Thor are meeting up!), a lesson that DC Films eventually figured out. Come what may, Margot Robbie’s Harley Quinn, Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman, Zackary Levi’s Shazam and Jason Momoa’s Aquaman have all earned fans for their specific cinematic interpretations of those characters. Rise of Skywalker’s nostalgia-baiting traded the specific arcs of Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo for generic tropes and fan service, including characters and beats that meant more to the audience than the characters, at the expense of whatever story threads had been developed in the previous two episodes. They sacrificed folks who liked Last Jedi and, yes, Force Awakens both because and despite them being Star Wars films for fans who just wanted Star Wars in the most abstract. throw in the abstractions of the Chewie headfake and the video game-esque Macguffins chase and they should have just released this movie as a set of action figures instead.
This entire issue is succinctly visualized in one scene....the C3P0 memory wipe part. “I’m taking one last look...at my friends.” Your friends? The dialogue makes no sense because they never established a bound between them. If he says it to R2 or Leia, it works but what we got was a manufactured moment.
That’s what it felt like. Juxtaposed to the “Chewie....we’re home.” It’s just nonsense to pander to the anti TLJ crowd.
should go to before baby Yoda/after baby Yoda to honor the part of the franchise that isn’t a train wreck
Palpatine isn't in IV (and is barely mentioned), is a hologram for a scene or two in V, and finally shows up in VI. The OT is not about killing Palpatine. The decision to make VII-IX in the series did 100x more to undermine the original trilogy than bringing Palpatine back to life did. The decision to make VII-IX meant that destroying two death stars, defeating the emperor and Darth Vader and all of it meant nothing because another empire rose up in the lifetimes of Luke, Leia and Han, anyway. Once you start making the movies, the impact of the win in the OT is gone.
The empire still exists as known evil in the galaxy that must be fought after IV. The villain is not just Vader, Tarkin, and the Death Star - it’s the Empire headed by the emperor. Palpatine is absolutely the big bad guy of V and VI and the entire trilogy culminates with his death. The OT is about beating evil and that evil is singularly embodied in Palpatine. All of the heroic characters are working toward the goal of defeating Palpatine. And JJ took that victory from them because he fucking sucks.
I still really enjoy the first half of Rogue One. Love the very Star Wars places we get to see. the last half is peak Star Wars.
Yes. I loved the last hour. It cannot be overstated though how bored and uninterested I was in the first hour though
Thought the opening Erso family prologue was good. After that it’s ok...Saw and Cassian stuff don’t do a whole lot for me. Once they leave Jedha it really kicks up a notch. but first half is also a lot of close up shots of Felicity Jones and that is perfectly fine
It makes me sad that I was contemplating seeing it again tonight but I just kept talking myself out of it because I didn’t want to get depressed and worked up about it again
just saw it tonight... First question is- wasn't there a big controversy about Leia surviving in outer space from the last movie? Has the Finn and the space horses fight an entire battle in outer space on the deck of a battleship caused a shitstorm? Not bitching just laughed when I saw it and wondered if people get upset over it. Enjoyed the movie tbqh even though I have a LOT of questions. Kinda one of those that was entertaining but I'm not sure made sense.
That result in a movie is awful for the final portion in a 9 movie series. If it was a stand alone movie, I don’t think anyone is complaining about it
Solo was aggressively mediocre and forgettable. Its box office failure was more about the fanbase being divided over Ep8 (with those who hated 8 still so mad they swore of Star Wars) and a crowded May release. Star Wars stopped being an "event" after it went annual. Before Disney took over it was "three movies for a decade, once a generation." Suddenly it became "a new movie every year, with the big ones coming every other year." Once a franchise stops being special you can't expect any built-in goodwill to carry it with middle of the run quality and a busy release date. No one wanted Solo (apart from the most dyed in the wool, "I just want more Star Wars I don't care if it's Yoda shitting in Ki Adi Mundi's mouth for 2.5 hours" fans). No one was excited about Solo. The trailers didn't do anything for anyone. The production drama didn't inspire confidence. Nothing about it was pointing to it being any kind of a hit. The only thing working in its favor was the name "Star Wars" applied to it and, as mentioned, that no longer matters when it's an annual franchise instead of a "once in a generation" event. Solo should have been bumped to Christmas of 2018. It still would have underperformed but it would have had less competition. But no, Solo was not worse than the prequels. That's silly.