EPL 2019-2020 - Where VAR is run by a 12 year old

Discussion in 'Soccer Board' started by Wu, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    which year
     
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  2. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    Final day 2011-12. Joey Barton was just sent off. What a turn of events, should be smooth sailing from here for City
     
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  3. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    Make sure to tell freak but don’t spoil it
     
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  4. Andy Reocho

    Andy Reocho Please don't get lost in the sauce
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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    Mario coming on!
     
  6. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    Love bites and everything

    soon
     
  7. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    cant believe you guys bottled it and gave United another title. Ferguson is probably going to be with united and keep them winning titles for another decade
     
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  8. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    It’s so funny watching 4 strikers on the field
     
  9. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    “Where will they hide tonight? Where will they go? How will they find the moral fiber to get up in the morning?”
     
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  10. TheFreak55

    TheFreak55 He should keep his mouth firmly shut
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    You’re an absolute cunt
     
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  11. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    Neutral venues, testing & tension between clubs: Premier League return explained

    Matt Slater, David Ornstein, Laurie Whitwell and Adam Crafton

    It’s been another long and complicated week of Premier League politics, with various parties briefing their preferred outcomes and the 20 clubs getting together yesterday to thrash out a return after coronavirus.

    Here is our understanding of the key issues as they stand…

    What was discussed in Friday’s meeting and who was there?

    All 20 clubs were present and views were aired at the three-and-a-half-hour meeting: finishing the season at neutral venues was the key theme. Different clubs are in different circumstances, with different challenges, so they’re naturally not singing from the same hymn sheet all of the time. But all 20 are committed to wanting to finish the season… for now. The call was done over Skype but without video, although the participants were shown some slides.

    Do clubs want to come back and play?

    It has been clear from the moment the pandemic broke out that certain clubs were searching for a way out of the current campaign. West Ham’s Karren Brady, for example, floated the idea of null-and-voiding the season in a national newspaper. Other clubs who would avoid relegation in the event of the season ending now — either by voiding the campaign or establishing a points-per-game model — have privately argued for these resolutions. Initially, such views were dismissed by rivals as blatant examples of self-interest but the mood is shifting. Just as the rest of us have grown wise to the perils of the pandemic, club executives, coaches and players have become very sensitive to the public health arguments. The idea of calling time on the season now is no longer confined to those clubs who stand to gain by not finishing the fixture list.

    The Athletic is aware, for example, of a senior member of a leading Championship club’s coaching staff who believes the decision to start playing again is “reckless, dangerous and prioritising economic health before public health”. This is not as simple, therefore, as football tribalism and there are divisions even within dressing rooms. The most clear argument across the Premier League, however, has always been that if the season can be played to a conclusion, it should be. Otherwise, the clubs may have to repay £762 million to broadcasters deprived of their usual coverage. This, arguably, is the crux of the issue.

    One well-placed source said on Friday night: “The Premier League now wants to restart and there is a clear majority for this. They will have a proper crack at getting this over the line. The discussions were less a debate and more information, led by Premier League officials and the government, detailing how they can restart. Clubs will continue to brief and leak stories to suit their own agendas. But within the meeting, it felt like football was working its way back.”

    An executive from a club thought to be in the neutral camp, in regards to calling it off or carrying on, said there was confidence play will resume, barring any major medical complications or new developments. But they added an important proviso: if the coronavirus curve goes in the wrong direction again, the appetite to resume would disappear and players and staff would rebel.

    One continuing concern for clubs is what will happens if, midway through the resumption, a significant number of their staff and/or players are struck down by the virus and have to be quarantined for 14 days. Would the club need to bring their reserves or youth team players back to training just in case? Would games be postponed if a certain number of players became unavailable? These are questions that are yet to be answered.

    Any tensions?

    Aren’t there always? An executive at one Premier League club has told The Athleticthat his club are against the prospect of games being played at neutral venues, and that “half the league are against it”. He also questioned the logic of matches being played at neutral venues to prevent fans from congregating outside the stadiums when the biggest clubs have fans all across the country, not just their home towns.

    “It’s being driven by the clubs with a lot to gain and not a lot to lose,” he said. “The bigger clubs are pushing for it because they know the only way for them is up in terms of glory or money, no risk.”

    The chairman of another Premier League club, unhappy at the prospect of games being played at neutral venues, told The Athletic: “I think the integrity (of the competition) was lost a long time ago, this just seals it.”

    It has also been claimed that the PFA are yet to be consulted on the plans, which will likely re-open the battle scars caused last month as clubs tried to agree wage deferral deals with their players.

    I’ve heard a lot about ‘Project Restart’ this week. What is it?

    OK, the title could do with a bit more thought, particularly when you consider how good the Premier League usually is at marketing, but there is no disputing the amount of effort that has gone into the English top flight’s grand plan. And if it comes off, nobody will complain about the name.

    Work on how to keep playing during the coronavirus crisis started at the league’s west London headquarters at the start of March, a week before the season was suspended. It was initially hoped the Premier League might be able to copy Serie A’s example and play on behind closed doors for a while but the speed of contagion in both countries soon made that plan unworkable. Leicester’s 4-0 thumping of Aston Villa and Sassuolo’s 3-0 win over Brescia on Monday, March 9, were the last action either league has witnessed. Two days later, Manchester City versus Arsenal was called off when Mikel Arteta became the English game’s first patient, and two days after that the whole season was confined to bed.

    Once the initial shock had passed, Premier League HQ started on a resumption strategy. According to sources, almost every member of staff has contributed, with clubs, broadcast partners, medical experts, police and friends overseas all pitching in. One part common sense, one part best practice, two parts blue-sky thinking, with a twist of good luck, it is a cocktail for these strange times. The clubs were given a first taste at the previous league shareholders’ meeting a fortnight ago, and were emailed a more detailed recipe earlier this week, but Friday’s Skype call was the first time league bosses and medical adviser Dr Mark Gillett talked them through it in detail. They were shown the return to training protocol, a medical strategy, the testing regime and the idea of using eight to 10 carefully chosen, neutral venues around the country.

    These were the main items of discussion on Friday but delve deeper into the dossier and the clubs will find details on how many people will be allowed to attend the games, how they will get there, where they will get ready, how they will leave, where they will stay, how they are expected to behave and how long it will take to complete the 92 unplayed games.

    There is, of course, one word missing from all of these best-made plans: provisional. None of this happens until the government says so and the key date here is Boris Johnson’s announcement on May 7, when the Prime Minister will announce if the UK can follow the likes of China, Germany and Italy in relaxing the current lockdown conditions and returning — even if only for a few months — to something closer to normality.

    Why neutral venues?

    The reality is the Premier League is not going to get necessary police approvals and Sports Ground Safety Authority licences to be able to play games at 20 stadiums. There are significant concerns about the possibility of large numbers of fans gathering outside the grounds, as was seen when Paris Saint-Germain played Borussia Dortmund and Valencia hosted Atalanta in the Champions League in March.

    So, instead, the league is looking at eight to 10 “approved” venues. Nearly all of them will be Premier League stadiums but nobody will play a game at home. Stadiums that are close to large residential areas are likely to be discounted and local infection rates will also be taken into consideration. The plan does not include non-football grounds such as Twickenham at this stage, and The Athleticunderstands Wembley is also currently not under consideration.

    The list of potential venues was not discussed in the meeting, although some clubs may have ruled themselves out of the running already, as Bournemouth, Southampton and Watford have all started extensive work on their pitches. One other that was about to start work has stopped after hearing they could be used as a neutral venue.

    The neutral-ground concept would see teams not even playing in their home city, so Liverpool would not play at Everton or Tottenham at West Ham. Plans still need to be formulated as to how you stop supporters congregating at their home ground even if there is no match. If Liverpool were to win the league in Birmingham, authorities need to know fans will not flock to Anfield. This fear was raised by Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson on Thursday, provoking an angry response from the club and its support.

    It is still unclear if clubs could play all their games in one stadium. The presentation at the meeting did not go into that level of detail. If a non-Premier League ground is used, VAR will have to be installed. A director at a Premier League club told The Athletic that the selection of neutral grounds was “a sticking point, expressed vocally by a number of clubs.”

    It is said that the bottom six were among the most strongly opposed the concept of neutral venues because they have crucial games coming up and see losing any home advantage as potentially damaging. Teams with less to play for — including Everton, Burnley and Crystal Palace — were generally more relaxed.

    The representatives of the “big six” clubs were said to have been particularly quiet on the call. It has been suggested to The Athleticthat they may have been briefed of the details discussed ahead of time, and there is even a suggestion that the Premier League’s elite clubs have formed a separate group to discuss the issues at hand.

    Would this need a vote to go ahead?

    It is unclear whether clubs are entitled to have a say in the proposal but one person involved in the call told The Athletic they thought the use of neutral venues would be a rule change, which requires a vote and the usual two-thirds majority — 14 of the 20 clubs. They added that they thought the vote might not pass. However, the clubs were told that playing in neutral venues is the only option. And without football matches, there are big question marks over that all-important broadcast and commercial revenue.

    Would teams train in these neutral venues too?

    No, they would prepare for matches at their own training grounds and travel to games. The World Cup-style training camps that some clubs suggested are not on the agenda. The Premier League will try to make travel time and distance as equal as possible across the league. Details of overnight stays and travel to games wasn’t discussed.

    Aren’t a lot of players worried about this?

    Yes, some players are scared and angry, and a big point that came across during the meeting was the need for the league to consult more fully with players and managers, so they buy into the plan and understand what they are being asked to do.

    Speaking to The Athletic on Friday night, Professional Footballers’ Association boss Gordon Taylor said he would not be issuing any advice until “a clear path” had been agreed by the government, their medical advisers, the Premier League and its medical advisers and all the club doctors. This plan would then need to be presented to the union, the League Managers Association and their respective members and delegates, so that a “full risk assessment, with full questioning” can take place.

    We are at the end of week six of lockdown and everyone is thinking about the here and now. But the proposed return to training, on May 18, is still more than a fortnight away, with the first game not pencilled in until June 8 — the country will be in a different place in terms of testing, the pandemic curve, people returning to work, using public transport and lots more by then. But, as we heard from the Manchester City forward Sergio Aguero and others this week, some players are worried.

    One prominent Premier League player told The Athletic “there’s no chance” he will train in a mask because he fears he would not be able to breath properly. And it is understood at least one club have already asked players to vote on whether they are happy to return to playing.

    Another player told The Athletic that although he would personally be willing to play were it deemed safe to do so, he was curious as to what would happen if the majority of a club’s players agreed to return to action, but a smaller group were reluctant. He also questioned exactly how much the decision-makers cared about the safety of players, staff and anyone else who would be attending the games if and when they take place.

    Yet a director at one Premier League club said: “I think it’s perfectly understandable that if a player fears for his or his family’s welfare then that should be respected. Let’s say for example a player’s relative has had treatment for cancer and they live with them, why should they be expected to risk that? However, let them stay away, take unpaid leave and give their salary to the greater good and worthy causes in much need — not just NHS but local workers and small businesses. Let each club play with the players that want to play and not force anyone to put themselves at risk.”

    What about testing?

    The Premier League is clear it does not want to do anything that could be construed as football jumping the queue for testing or diverting resources from key workers and frontline medical staff. Not only would this be an enormous PR own goal but it would be highly unethical.

    But for the “sterile environment” plan to work, the players will need regular testing: at least twice a week and perhaps as much as every other day. The players and staff involved are likely to want that for their peace of mind, too.

    It is estimated that Project Restart will require 40,000 testing kits, which will be privately sourced from a Dutch supplier, costing the Premier League £4 million. One club has arranged its own informal test that involve a few pricks of blood taken from a finger and a result is almost instant. The league will also set up the required testing stations.

    Is what has happened in other countries this week significant?

    To an extent, yes. Premier League clubs have carefully followed developments in France, where the government effectively ended the current campaign when it said there could be no sport until August. Yet this has created a financial black hole. Several Ligue 1 clubs are already pleading for huge loans to cover losses. Furthermore, the decision to award titles and European places, as well as promote and relegate teams, has attracted legal threats from clubs such as Amiens, Lyon and Toulouse. The Premier League is unsurprisingly fearful of similar headaches.

    The top flights in Belgium and Holland have also brought the curtain down on 2019-20, although the Dutch are not awarding any titles or promoting or relegating anyone. They are, however, proposing to send their top two teams to next season’s Champions League and next three to the Europa League. This has provoked a furious response from AZ Alkmaar, who were only trailing Ajax at the top of the table on goal difference but had the wind in their sails. The top team in Holland enter at a later stage of qualifying and would automatically join the group stage if this season’s Champions League was won by a team that had also qualified via their domestic competitions. Other unhappy parties include sixth-placed Utrecht, who were only three points behind fifth-placed Willem II with a game in hand (and also in the Dutch Cup final), and the two teams clear at the top of the Dutch second division.

    What unites all three of these leagues, and Scotland — another one currently debating how to conclude their stalled season — is the fact they are all moving to new broadcast partners next season, so have an added motive for wrapping up this season and not compromising the prompt start of next season.

    Looking elsewhere, the fact the UK is slightly behind the Covid-19 curve of Germany, Italy and Spain is a blessing in terms of the league’s ability to plan. The English game can, essentially, take the successful parts trialled elsewhere and learn lessons from any mistakes.

    On Friday, it emerged that three players at German club Cologne have recently tested positive for the virus. They will now spend 14 days in quarantine but group training continues. Premier League clubs are expected to follow the same model, treating coronavirus as an injury, rather than letting a few positive tests bring the season to a halt again, as happened when Arteta tested positive.

    Is it possible to tell what the individual clubs are thinking?

    Yes and no. Contrary to what we have seen and heard from a few clubs in the EFL, no Premier League club has publicly laid out its position on whether to resume this season or not. Brighton have probably been the most transparent club in the top flight with their chief executive Paul Barber giving weekly on-the-record briefings but even they have been reluctant to show every card they are holding.

    This means we are relying on tells to work out what each club is thinking. Arsenal, for example, are understood to be eager to play on. They have been in isolation longer than most, as they played Olympiakos at the end of February and the Greek club’s owner Angelos Marinakis, who also owns Nottingham Forest, was an early Covid positive, so they are desperate to get out on the pitch again. As they are also losing four games’ worth of their substantial match-day revenue, Arsenal are very vulnerable to a potential clawback of broadcast money. And they, like others, have made their pay-cut and deferral plans on the basis of completing the season.

    Arsenal also, however, believe they had a strong hand going into the run-in, and had not given up on Champions League football. Do not forget, if Manchester City fail to overturn their UEFA ban, fifth place is good enough for a return to the big show and seventh place would be good enough for the Europa League, as Manchester City would not qualify via their Carabao Cup win. Arsenal are ninth, five points behind Manchester United in fifth, with a game in hand.

    Another team with a game in hand are Aston Villa, with six of their remaining 10 matches scheduled to be at home, an advantage they would have been counting on to get themselves out of the bottom three. But The Athletic understands they, too, want to play on and are convinced they have enough talent to get out of trouble on the pitch. Their midfielder John McGinn, so influential for them at the start of the season, is now fit and ready to go.

    Bournemouth are another example of an injury-ravaged squad now looking a lot healthier thanks to the enforced break. And then there are the clubs we cannot read. Liverpool have simply stopped talking in these meetings and maintain a Sphinx-like cool. Tottenham chief executive Daniel Levy is another who the other clubs are finding difficult to interpret.

    In terms of the table, Tottenham are in a similar position to Arsenal and they also will be losing huge amounts of revenue from not being able to stage games and events at their new home, so you would imagine they would be desperate to avoid giving back any broadcast money and determined to continue their run of European football. Some, however, think Levy is leaning to calling it quits on this season. Why? Nobody is certain, although Tottenham’s wage bill is one of the most incentivised in the league, with lots of bonus payments.

    Everyone has their own headaches.

    What happens next?

    As mentioned above, nothing really changes until Johnson’s speech next Thursday. Until then, the league is stuck in the same Groundhog Day pattern as the rest of us: get up, print off the kids’ homework, hold virtual meetings, make actual phone calls, get some fresh air, stay safe, repeat.

    But there was a second significant meeting on Friday that involved Oliver Dowden, the secretary of state for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, the deputy chief medical officer Jonathan Van-Tam and the top doctors from the Football Association, Premier League, Rugby Football Union, England and Wales Cricket Board and UK Sport, the government agency that funds Olympic and Paralympic athletes.

    This digital gathering focused on how professional team sports will resume training after what has already been in football’s case, the game’s longest break since World War II. The Athletic understands this meeting was positive and professional, with all united around a desire to get moving again, providing the government says go.

    So sport waits, makes plans and stays as loose and as limber as possible. What else can it do? To throw in the towel now would not look clever if anyone came asking for their money back. To not be ready to finish this season, as quickly and as fairly as possible, could look negligent if the country enters another phase of lockdown later this year.

    If Johnson says no, well, Project Restart might have to become Project Avoid Litigation, with the key details not being the number of tests you do or how long players must go without seeing loved ones, but which battles they choose to fight
     
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  12. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    [​IMG]
     
  13. roonskie

    roonskie Getting older every day
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    In nicer news:

     
  14. El_Pato

    El_Pato Nunca Caminaras Solo
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    Thank you
     
  15. Shiggityshwo

    Shiggityshwo Well-Known Member
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    Arsenal's up 3-0 in this "classic" match up and I'm terrified for them
     
  16. TheFreak55

    TheFreak55 He should keep his mouth firmly shut
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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Shiggityshwo

    Shiggityshwo Well-Known Member
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    Oh dang Big Ster used to be on Liverpool :warn:
     
  18. Shiggityshwo

    Shiggityshwo Well-Known Member
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    finally, 3-1 in the 76th minute, was wondering when this thing would start to turn
     
  19. Shiggityshwo

    Shiggityshwo Well-Known Member
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    well Liverpool's down to 10 men now with a precious few minutes to go and I'm starting to wonder why they're showing this
     
  20. Shiggityshwo

    Shiggityshwo Well-Known Member
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    4-1

    this is bullshit I want my money back
     
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  21. fattmante

    fattmante Well-Known Member
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    Gives me goosebumps and I don't even particularly like City.
     
  22. El_Pato

    El_Pato Nunca Caminaras Solo
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    I miss a good Joey Barton red card
     
  23. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    terrible people from top to bottom in this club

     
  24. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    Of course England has their own Alex Jones

    my thread continues to inform the masses
     
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  25. nexus

    nexus TMB’s TSO
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    When are they airing their European successes?
     
  26. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    don’t believe NBC has UEFA broadcast rights
     
  27. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    I can see when TNT is broadcasting the 1st leg of this years R16
     
  28. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    Haven’t gotten through all of it but reading an Athletic article on Project Restart and just saw this

     
  29. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    this is pathetic. there is zero integrity in the results if they start doing this shit
     
  30. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    zero class from top to bottom folks

     
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  31. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    lol. Wtf would the point of that be??
     
  32. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    as far as i can tell the main goal is encouraging lawsuits from any relegation zone club about the legality of altering the rules mid season
     
  33. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    Next Sunday would’ve been the regularly scheduled end to the season, so trying to salvage this one is pure fantasy

    just focus on preparing for delayed start to next season (at best)
     
  34. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    Just play out the season as a five-a-side tourney.
     
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  35. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    FIFA Sim
     
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  36. TheFreak55

    TheFreak55 He should keep his mouth firmly shut
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    void this bullshit and just start again in September
     
  37. Wu

    Wu Nope.
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    [​IMG]
     
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  38. TheFreak55

    TheFreak55 He should keep his mouth firmly shut
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    tobias liked it, Im going to shower
     
  39. Hogger

    Hogger Well-Known Member
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    Only thing i can figure is the players wouldn’t be fit enough to play 90+ minutes? I can’t imagine them actually going that route though.
     
  40. AUShyGuy

    AUShyGuy Unbridled Enthusiasm
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    Best guess, a lot of games in a short period.
     
  41. Owsley

    Owsley My friends call me Bear
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    Genius idea: if the players aren’t fit enough to play 90 minute games, maybe you shouldn’t be playing.
     
  42. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    obviously the length of games is the most dramatic version of it but there shouldn’t be any give on rule changes even if it’s increased subs or elimination of var. you can’t change the rules up mid season. what if a team gets relegated because of a late winner by a 5th sub? or a CL spot is awarded when a winner that was the same circumstances as a disallowed goal from october is awarded because they suspended var?

    to say nothing of the patent unfairness of robbing teams of home field advantage. city doesn’t win the league last year if they don’t get the pool game at the etihad considering how close those two teams were (save the city attendance jokes). since schedules are so differently staged there is no way to ensure fairness on that front either

    it needs to be voided to maintain any semblance of a fair and just result
     
  43. ohhaithur

    ohhaithur e-Batman
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    sports have in-season rule changes all the time
     
  44. TheFreak55

    TheFreak55 He should keep his mouth firmly shut
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    I mean 45 minutes and 3 subs has been pretty much set in stone
     
  45. ohhaithur

    ohhaithur e-Batman
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    I think so too
     
  46. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    gonna need some examples here because I can't think of anything major.
     
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  47. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    forgot about the NFL going to 7 on 7 after week 9 in 2011 and mlb going to 7 innings after the 1996 trade deadline you raise a good point
     
  48. CoastalOrange

    CoastalOrange Well-Known Member
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    Clemson TigersTennessee VolunteersBarcelonaUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    Let’s not act like your all for the nobleness of the sport. You’ve been clear from the beginning that you think it should be vacated completely. Claiming that nothing is allowed to change while ignoring that this is an unprecedented situation is a bit naive. There has to be flexibility. If the season is null and void, what does that mean for the Championship teams that were clear to be promoted. How abt the teams that were hot garbage all season and should be relegated? What abt all the tv money lost? How do the sponsors react to paying tens of millions for a season that now means nothing?
     
  49. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsAtlanta BravesCharlotte HornetsNew York GiantsManchester CityNational LeagueBarAndGrill

    city finally cleared a hurdle of sorts by winning away after trailing in a big CL spot. it could be our last chance for a while with the impending ban. we are 1a/1b with bayern as far as favorites. we may not have this shot for a long time

    i fully support abandoning that too because it’s the most fair and safe thing to do.

    it’s a shame liverpool fans can’t put their fandom aside like myself
     
    Ace Boogie, Dick Dollars and Owsley like this.
  50. ohhaithur

    ohhaithur e-Batman
    Donor

    I didn't say it's anything earth shattering but off the top of my head:

    MLB adding replay after the All-Star Break
    NHL outlawing screening the goalie after Sean Avery made a mockery of the game
    NASCAR changed its format on how races end under caution the day before a mid-season race
    NFL changed the fumble rules the day before the playoffs started last year (if you want to talk about mid-season changes that altered a season's integrity: replacement refs)
    NCAAF changed its clock rules week 2 because of shenanigans week 1 a few years ago