Yes. Almost. What’s happens if a carpenter gets injured and no long can do carpentry. He’s almost screw unless he goes back to schools. There’s no flexibility for an individual really outside that one trade. People running businesses demand BS degrees. It is basically a barrier to entry.
My main point is I just want everyone to be more educated. We always complain about how dumb our country is and people advocating for trade schools over higher education is contributing to the problem. The current economics of the situation make it a rational choice for many. Which is why we need to change the economics. Just telling people to learn a trade instead ain't it
This will not go over well at all. If things don’t change, I just can’t see the Democratic Party galvanizing support in the midterms
Yep public option to do so as cost can be prohibitive for ppl who want to. However, it seems there’d be a fair amount who would forgo regardless. seems like the investment in job investment tweet from Harris should apply to people at any point in their careers. If we have a paradigm shift in cost burden then I wouldn’t be surprised if ppl did delay making money immediately but it’s obviously just a different path.
Depends on what becomes the education standard in the industry. If a bachelors degree gets you a leg up on an associates degree and it's free people will start doing it to stand out from the crowd and then it'll just become the norm imo Either way it should be an option
I don't read this as an abandonment of those promises, but a delay in order to get this current bill passed
I don't really know what they've been doing this entire time. They passed Cares and I guess that's all they're going to do??? Going to get absolutely nothing done
I mean that is happening right now with Software Development. There are a ton of coding bootcamps, which aren't all equal in how well they prepare you, where people are winding up paying for that like a trade school and making good money afterwards if they can land that first job. This is basically a trade in my mind because so much of web development is the same patterns implemented over and over, not everyone needs to become a super senior developer or architect and you can still make good money as long as you keep learning. Basically we should be subsidizing this as much as possible because people (shockingly!!!!) get tired of their careers and want a change or want better pay and they seek that out if they can afford the upfront cost.
I thought the plan was to go pretty vanilla to pass something and the use reconciliation for other things or is that reporting unrelated to this?
Everyone needs postsecondary training. That doesn’t always mean in a university or community college setting. Post-high school trade and technical schools are colleges too and should be treated as such. They shouldn’t be discounted as less than.
Vote to return a filibuster to what it's supposed to be. It's not an email chain saying that we (Rs) indefinitely filibuster anything we don't like. If you don't do that (Ds), you're not serious about doing anything.
Agreed on the business part. But you don’t need a whole degree to learn that. Specific classes and micro-credentialing courses can solve that without encouraging everyone to get a bachelors degree. That’s what got us into this student loan mess in the first place; an over reliance and requirement of bachelors degrees. Some people have no interest in learning about history, art, or other subjects.
One of two things have to change. Either the cost or barrier regarding education or the enormous toll health care cost put on families. I don’t care which one at this moment. But having those two together has almost tied an anvil to the mobility of the middle class.
“people advocating for trade schools over higher education is contributing to the problem” Postsecondary trade schools are institutions of higher education.
Our student loan mess is because states quit subsidizing the cost of a college degree. It's not because of everyone going to college. And I don't discount trade schools but they probably should learn about those things even if they don't have an interest. Makes a person more well-rounded. We need to have free public college like we do high school.
Joe Biden is a weak leader until I see him making fun of manchins wife and then witness Manchin voting for his agenda the following week.
True. Some people are really intent on learning a trade and passionate about the work they accomplish with that. It’s not their last option bc studying philosophy was too expensive.
We don’t need people paying to go to a university to learn about things that they have no interest in. I understand your point about it being free, but people still may not go. We have tuition free community and technical college in Tennessee and people still won’t come, in some instances.
This sounds kind of elitist, no? I think school curriculum needs to dedicate years to identifying logical fallacies. Peoples biases exacerbate the “stupidity” of the world, let alone our polarized country.
That's their prerogative. They don't need to pay to do any of it because it should be free. And if they don't go they don't go. But more education for a society is better. That's an objective fact. So cost shouldn't be a barrier to entry. And if colleges had degree programs for trades even better.
We should have realized nothing was gonna change when we went with a career politician with no backbone since Nixon was president
right? tout your trade-skills program (which is objectively a good and cool thing) without framing it with the “four year degrees aren’t the only pathways to success” bullshit. ella goes to private arts college
THEBLUERAIDER do you think most business majors give a shit about art history? No. But it makes a person more well rounded and education isn't supposed to be just job training.
Better rhetoric starting with leadership is important. I guess I was being obtuse, but I knew what she meant and didn’t read as much into that sentence. Education as a means to an end is a cultural problem.
Biden is FAR exceeding expectations if we get CARES/Infrastructure/AFP...or are we just mad because we’re assuming dems are going to fail at the latter two?
ya, it was one sentence: He’s suspicious of the generous college debt forgiveness plans that have sprung up on the left. “The idea that you go to Penn and you’re paying a total of 70,000 bucks a year and the public should pay for that? I don’t agree.” He didn't say he disagrees with forgiving student debt, just a certain iteration of the policy. And the framing of "left" is all Brooks.
yeah. The bourgeois notion of the liberal citizen means studying a range of topics from the natural world to the people in it. You can scrap all that for consumer choice but don’t be surprised when the democracy doesn’t function properly.
It's in these situations where it really helps to look around at other countries and see how they do it. Germany comes to mind with a fairly similar education structure but they put much more emphasis on STEM and critical thinking in their elementary and secondary education than we do. Thus they have some of the best engineers in the world and fairly robust and educated blue collar workforce.
Also a key thing to get a more educated population would be to pass the infrastructure bill and replace lead pipes in peoples homes.
I will say we're better off now in elementary ed than we've ever been as a country. We're at least a year ahead in learning than when millenials went to grade school. Maybe 2 or 3 tbh for kids with the means to go to decent preschools.
Basically everyone chooses a trade in high school too, even if you know you’re gonna be a rocket surgeon. It’s cultural and will literally never happen here.
if manchin was a republican holdout, they would paint him as public enemy number 1 and the reason the country is broken even more than the democrats and he would cave to the enormous pressure. Also manchin gets way to much hate compared to sinema. Manchin is at least in a state that no actual democrat could win in. Sinema is in a tossup state and has abandoned a lot of what she claimed she stood for soon after she got elected.
yeah like the working class is all the people in the US but a few hundred billionaires but let’s make sure it just means uneducated reactionary white guys
I don’t disagree, by any means, that more education is better. It is imperative. What that postsecondary education looks like, though, isn’t a one size fits all situation. For those wishing to earn a bachelors degree, I agree the incorporation of hands-on learning/trade training would be ideal. I think engineering students would be better engineers if universities incorporated some industrial maintenance training into the curriculum.
I think that is a waste of time and other resources, honestly. I get the well-rounded individual anecdote, though. That’s also hard to quantify, so I would like to see some data on that, if any exists. I think the time and money could be better spent in courses directly related to their chosen vocation. I despise general education requirements that force people to attend classes with little to no value or interest to them. An elective approach would be more beneficial, in my opinion.