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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by teel, Mar 28, 2019.
Jim Crane is not exactly a guy who gives a fuck about his reputation
Giving full immunity was dumb. Threaten life suspension and get them to talk in exchange for only 81 games. With all of the video and audio evidence, you didn't need every player to crack and give up the goods. You already had Fiers willing to talk. A couple more would have. The ones that didn't, lifetime ban. Landis is rolling over in his grave.
I’m still shocked Brian McCann, self anointed protecter of the integrity of the game, allowed this to happen in his locker room
You don’t get to impose a penalty before you have sufficient evidence of a violation
Don't disrespect the game by watching your HR but totally ok to cheat to win a title.
This isn't a courtroom. The commissioner can do what he sees fit to protect the game. Between Fiers and the video/audio, there's enough there to show a violation.
You post so many stupid things that I have a hard time knowing when you're being serious
You think giving all players 100% immunity is the only way they could determine if cheating occurred?
According to a Rosenthal story earlier this week, McCann went to Beltran to say they were going too far and they should stop, but Beltran told him no.
It's not just him it's his entire organization. They paid a department to do something illegal but for all intensive purposes had no PR or moral compass. Just a quick timeline in my brain on recent stories.
Acquire Osuna literally because his cost was cheap, market inefficiency when you beat women yay.
Allegations are made against an exec who verbally attacked a female reporter made from a reputable source.
Dismiss all allegations, standby their guy and claim to donate a million a year to domestic violence in the area before even investigating the incident. (Complete fucking joke their donation was some number like less than .05% of their revenue clearly wasn't serious it was a ploy to check a box)
Fire said executive.
I get your point and I agree, Also owns a billion dollar operation who had no PR. Just mind boggling.
I don't hate the Astros but god damn were they fucking so stupid despite having such intelligence. Gross mismanagement.
I think threatening players with lifetime bans unless they talk to the commissioner would not have worked the way you're suggesting when the players in questions are protected by a union.
you think you have to give immunity to every single player involved to determine what went on?
Imagine if this is how criminal investigations were run. "Well, we gave everyone immunity, so no one was punished for the giant drug operation, but at least we found out what was going on and who did what!"
He can, and the players can file suit in a courtroom alleging a violation of the CBA.
II think treating players as untouchable bc of the union is a terrible precedent. They cheated. They should be held accountable.
Cool. I'm ok with MLB going to court to protect the game.
its not necessarily that he's dumb. its how proud of his idiocy he is. my favorite dbl-ism is when he argues legal stuff with a lawyer which appears the road we're headed down now with him and bwi
They would lose immediately
I realize you're a lawyer but you look really dumb when speaking in absolutes on a subject you don't know well enough to really comment on.
rip irony its dead and never coming back
What's an antitrust exemption? Asking for a friend.
Have you even read Articles XI and XII of the CBA? I’m not asking if you can go read them now and come up with an argument as to how collective punishment without evidence falls within the Commissioner’s authority, I’m just asking if you had already read them before making this comment.
The antitrust exemption wouldn’t shield them from a breach of contract action
Yes, I have. I assume you have not.
B. Conduct Detrimental or Prejudicial to Baseball Players may be disciplined for just cause for conduct that is materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of Baseball including, but not limited to, engaging in conduct in violation of federal, state or local law. The Commissioner and a Club shall not discipline a Player for the same act or conduct under this provision. In cases of this type, a Club may only discipline a Player, or take other adverse action against him, when the Commissioner defers the disciplinary decision to the Club.
Ah, yes. This feels familiar.
This article summed up my thoughts:
6) You didn’t mention the role of the MLBPA—wouldn’t it contest player suspensions?
Yes, the MLBPA would contest player suspensions. However, just because the MLPBA would raise a fight doesn’t mean their objections would succeed in altering the outcome. A prosecutor doesn’t decline to seek charges against someone who is believed to have committed a crime merely because that person will hire a defense attorney. Likewise, an employer doesn’t refrain from punishing unionized employees for workplace misconduct because the employees are represented by a union. The prospect of resistance isn’t, by itself, a reason to not try to hold wrongdoers accountable.
Also, Manfred might believe it is worth taking on the MLPBA in order to communicate to fans and media that he takes the controversy seriously. In fact, Manfred not punishing guilty players could make him seem weak and ineffectual.
"It didnt impact the game" when his players knew which pitches were coming reminded me of the type of thing a bad guy wrestler would say
Pretty sure Mike is reading this thread
Sorry I just can't get behind full immunity for all of the players. They could have gotten enough evidence without giving them all immunity. Hell The Athletic was able to expose it all. Yes, the Union would have challenged it, but tough shit. Completely backing down bc of the Union is a joke. It sets a terrible precedent. Manfred's job is to protect the game and he has the authority to do so. He failed.
The Athletic didn't expose it all. It exposed that the Astros cheated, and later mentioned that Cora was involved (I think). It didn't name a single active player as a participant or mastermind behind it. It didn't name a single player as "_ used it most, followed by _, _,, etc." If you're arguing for player penalties, that stuff seems important.
Did they really need to know how many pitches each player used it for? I don't think that's important at all. All of them knew. None of them spoke out. They are all complicit. You don't have to know every single detail. It's cool to have them, but not at the expense of every single player getting 100% immunity.
This is fucked up that the minor leaguers are in the game but get nothing for it.
You're right. Immunity is not necessary when your investigative strategy is "details aren't important." I guess this is the end of the road for us.
That is messed up. But that’s awesome as a player of the video game
Using this logic nobody should ever go to jail. Just give them immunity so you can get the details on how it happened. That's so dumb. We knew they cheated. They didn't have to give them 100% immunity to get the fine details. 80 games instead of 2 years? Ok, fine. But 100%? Fuck that. It's really weird that you're ok with "Well yea they cheated and got no punishment but hey we got details!!!" I'd be ok with less details and more punishment.
dbl is tough on crime.
You 100% have this sticker on your pickup truck.
ready to lean into it
Astros fans will be posting their lunch in this thread within a month
It's kind of like how the most homophobic pastors or Republicans are always the ones caught banging 16 year old boys in hotel rooms.
The ol' Penn State Football Fan Playbook
What part of that section allows for punishment for suspected conduct or the conduct of others?
I think it's allowable when the players in question defeated your favorite team in the ALCS twice in three years.
Baseball Players may be disciplined for just cause for conduct that is materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of Baseball
I just want to take this time to point out that I was not a part of that movement.
This is bad, even for you.
Apparently you can't dislike known cheaters getting zero punishment if your team lost to said cheaters. Neat.