Yes, that's why Aemon thinks they ignored Dany as AA reborn. Also I never really thought about who would fight Robert Strong. It's certainly interesting.
If this has already been brought up and I missed it, fuck it I'm not going to apologize. Jon Snow is dead. Spoiler Melisandre will bring him back as Azor Ahai reborn.
Theories on what happened/will happen to these somewhat lesser characters? - Rickon & Shaggy Dog - Nymeria - Sansa - Gendry - Syrio - Patchface - Who is the pretty girl from the prophecy that will fuck Cersei's life up? Marg? Sansa? Dany? *Haven't frequented this board much because I was scared to have something spoiled. Done with the books, ready to speculate.
I thought Varys was disguised as the gaoler only when he needed to be down there. There's no way he spent 15 years showing up to work every day, is there? He would have needed to be in too many places at once, even for him.
Nice write up. Thank you. But can someone clear up for me how Jon is a Targaryen? I don't quite get that lineage.
dude, how could you not know the R+L=J theory? hold on let me find you a link. you have some reading to do.
make sure to change the scope at the top to all five books. http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html
Thank you. That was quite informative. I guess I just don't contemplate everything that I read enough. I put some of that stuff together but never put it all together to form a complete picture.
At this point, I would be shocked if R+L didn't = J. There's just too much in the books that suggest it.
Rickon and da dog - Went to Skagos (note how shook Davos is when Manderly tells him where to find the boy Nymeria - clearly the big 'she-wolf' that keeps getting mentioned as terrorizing the riverlands with the huge pack Sansa - not sure what's to theorize about. Littlefinger plans to marry her to the heir of the Vale and likely run things behind the scenes and have power in Harrenhall, Winterfell and the Vale Gendry - he joined the outlaws and I doubt we see him again. He doesn't seem to know he's Robert's bastard so I don't see what role he plays unless he runs into Jaime and Brienne Syrio - he dead Patchface - I wish he died Pretty sure Dany is the queen that will kill Cersei. She was so dismissive of her when the counsel brought her up that it just solidified it for me
That's a bit of a reach. With Edmure and the Blackfish still alive and Edmure having a kid, Sansa's claim is almost nonexistent
I hope he's not the type of person to change it now that most people have figured it out. I doubt he was expecting the type following and analysis the series has today when he started it 15 or so years ago.
Refuse to believe it. Or Littlefinger can have some sick twisted plot for her. I thought I remembered reading that he originally planned to marry her (dont know if it meant to himself or another). I thought she, Sansa, was/is going to be the one to fuck Cersei's world up (ie the prophecy) because of the constant references to how beautiful she is throughout the entire series (they even go out of their way to say such in the HBO series). But now I see how Dany fits the mold.
Sansa is going to marry Harrold Hardyng (Heir to the Vale) and be revealed as Sansa Stark. only question is whether Littlefinger disposes of Robert before or after.
At the very least, I bet it definitely will make it more difficult whenever he presents it to the reader. In one group you have people like us who aren't going to be surprised and thus will be annoyed if he puts too much focus on it. But in another group you'll have people who didn't see it coming at all and will think "How the hell can he just gloss over something like that?!?!?" if he doesn't emphasize it enough.
just started this book and can already tell itll be way better than the 4th. jon snow, tyrion, and dany?
I can't stand Dany's story line in this book. Woe is me. Drogo is my sun and stars but I'm a whore and going to fuck the guy with a gold tooth? Oh no now I have to get married to help my shitty city. The only redeeming quality about Dany was her dragons and the only mention of them in the book so far is how they're chained up and no one really knows where Drogon is?
Oh what do you know, the king opens up the fighting pits 2 interesting things happen. Tyrion makes an appearance and Drogon comes back. Dany is only interesting when a man is making the decisions. So she's been interesting for all of a book and a half out of 5. I like the thought of Cercei in prison garb.
There is 0 hard evidence supporting his death, as the book ends mid-attack. As far as soft evidence, 2 of the visions/prophecies suggest that he is alive or will be returned to life in the future. Mel's vision on pages 407-08 opens up the possibility of Jon warging into Ghost and then back into his body: The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half- seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Also, the prophecy that Azor Ahai is reborn amidst "salt and smoke" coincides with the salt of Bowen Marsh's tears and the smoke rising from the knife wound. Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. “For the Watch.” He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it. Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold . . .[/i] Edit: I thought you were talking about Jon, my bad. Anyway, I'll leave this up because I saw the Ghost-warg theory mentioned earlier but didn't see anything on salt and smoke.
Completely agree. CANNOT STAND Dany in this book. Also, will someone explain to me this whole "Mereneese knot" thing ? Am I just missing it ? (more then likely the case)
One of the reasons ADWD took so long to come out is because GRRM wrote himself into a corner regarding Dany in Meereen and it took him a long time to figure out how he wanted things to play out.
It's gotta be the hardest thing to write for him (I know he said writing Bran's perspective was hardest bc he is a kid). Dany has this firey side to her that hasn't fully been awakened yet (although we get glimpses of it) coupled with a unique ability to lead from an objective point of view. She truly is a ruler for the (her) people. The chipping away of her sheltered life and innocence is almost complete. I think from here on out we will see a completely confident Dany who doesn't pussy foot around. All of these character traits have to be taken into account with every chapter he writes with her because it's the only character he creates that truly has evolved in front of our eyes. Plus having her stranded in BFE: caring for useless people nobody gives two shits about, getting experience as a ruler learning more and more about herself and mankind as a part of the bigger picture to provide her and the reader with a basis on how she will rule (fairly imo) once she sits the Iron Throne. It's no help to providing the instant gratification that everyone wants with her chapters (ie talking about how she will take the Iron Throne with fire and blood, having convos with Selmy about the past, and her dragons murking people). But for someone as complex and deep as her, it needs to be done.
If Edmure and his kid are dead, I'm pretty sure Sansa is next in line as the Blackfish has no interest in Riverrun.
Edmure is hostage at Casterly Rock and that baby is well protected by the Freys. not sure why you think they're both going to be dead anytime soon.
Was really hoping that when Davos was "dead" in White Harbor and big fatass Manderley (?) had those two Freys visiting, was hoping to read a detailed account of their gruesome murders. Instead we just got just a tiny little side note that they were set upon the road and never made it to whereever they were going.
Yeah, I know he actually did manufacturetheir deaths but I was really just hoping for more than a mere mention on it. I was hoping for, I don't know, I just want all those Freys to die and I want it to be told to me in gruesome detail. They all deserve to be put in Theon's position as Ramsey's pets and flayed and tortured for fun til they die. Fuck em all
I completely agree. I HATE the Freys and Boltons. I wish he would have went into a little bit more detail as well, just because of my dislike for those two. It was still cleverly done though, you had to pay attention to even catch it. During that scene was Manderly eating the freys in those pies as well ? What a fat bastard lol
I love it when Marting does that in the books, just casually mentions something that is semi important. Like in AFFC when it is just mentioned in a Cersei conversation that Davos has been killing in White Harbor. I read that and was like "WHAT!? Give me a little more information here, George. You can't just drop a bomb like that without further explanation!" Of course we all know what really happened but at the time it was crazy. There a a few other examples of shit like that too. One of the reasons I love this series.
just finished this and have no idea what to do now, been reading these books since spring. i assume jon is dead but i thought brienne was dead twice now and both times she survived. was so surprised to have varys show up at the very end, and to kill kevan like that. kind of forgot about him tbh and didnt even think he would know about aegon
I read the first four super fast, but got a new job and just finished the fifth. Loved em all so far. Read this whole thread, think some people jump to conclusions about the "boring" parts. GRRM sets up everything, and don't think he writes anything without a purpose. Loved reading all the theories. I think we all agree, but no way Jon is staying dead. There's been so much building and backstory to him, he's not close to done yet. I actually think since he was killed so early on, he'll live through the climax of the book now. Hope he gets separated from nights watch, the vows have really hindered him from fucking shit up. Thanks for all the discussion and info. Good reads.