Alabama bans nearly all abortions - Riner gets obsessed with young boys

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by lechnerd, May 15, 2019.

  1. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    agreed. To counter, how much concern do the people willing to end those lives, or allow those lives to be ended have?
     
  2. NCHusker88

    NCHusker88 We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    The question is flawed on its face. To suggest that a pile of cells that is not a viable human life is the same as a living, breathing child and therefore deserves the same level of compassion is a false equivalence. There is nothing logically inconsistent about a pro-choice, pro-safety net position. The same can't be said of the inverse.
     
  3. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps Im being too cynacle but in a way Im glad Bama took this to it's logical conclusion.

    If the whole argument against abortion is that it's 'murder' , why should fetus conceived out of rape or incest have less of a right not to be murdered than a fetus conceived out of consensual sex?

    In both cases, neither fetus had any control over the conditions of their creation, but one should be legally allowed to be murdered, and the other shouldnt? It's an arbitrary line, inconsistent w their supposed beliefs.

    This all just shows how arbitrary and illogical The Pro Birth people are. Not that any of them will concede that, but I think it's obvious to most. This highlights it even more.
     
  4. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    If that's my daughter, I'm taking her to get an abortion. If you want to throw me in jail, so be it. I'd gladly sit down knowing I did the right thing for my child.
     
  5. Lyrtch

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    They aren't lives.

    Hth
     
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  6. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Isn't that a matter of opinion though?
     
  7. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    Legally and scientifically no
     
  8. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    we are all just piles of cells. What does "living" mean? is the breathing part essential to life? The question will always be, when does life begin?

    If you think it begins at birth, or viability, then yes, the question I asked is flawed on it's face. If you believe it begins at conception, or heartbeat, then it's not flawed at all.
     
  9. Ned Yocho

    Ned Yocho Please don't get lost in the sauce
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    Only if you think science is fake
     
  10. Redav

    Redav My favorite meat is hot dog
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    You're in luck!
     
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  11. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    so scientifically when does life begin?

    Legally can't people be convicted of murder/manslaughter in many states when they kill a fetus? Drunk driver crashes into a pregnant woman, and she loses the baby?
     
  12. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    I really want one of the guys that supports these type laws to address this.

    If this was your daughter, do you feel she should be forced to have that child?

    I know they'll avoid it bc we all know the answer. They are perfectly ok preaching to someone else but they wouldn't want it to apply to them. That's how people like that work. Preach how everyone should be but then don't live to the standard themselves.
     
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  13. Ned Yocho

    Ned Yocho Please don't get lost in the sauce
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    It's called projecting. Our president and his lackeys are the kings of it
     
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  14. Stagger Lee

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    As a matter of public policy and philosophy of law, I believe abortion should be legal

    As a matter of sound constitutional jurisprudence, I believe the issue of abortion should be left to the states.

    Ethically speaking, I believe abortion is evil, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

    I can understand the divide on the issue. Any honest person can agree there are two competing interests worthy of protection: (a) a child's life (if you accept the premise that a fetus is a human) and (b) the Mom's right to make her own decisions regarding her body. I believe tough issues like this are best left to the states where the people have better ability to direct the laws they want to live under. I also believe the structure of the Constitution directs issues like this one to the States.

    Can we all agree that no jurisdiction should have laws permitting abortion with respect to a fetus at a particular stage of development, if that jurisdiction would also permit a man to stand trial for double murder if he killed a woman carrying a fetus at the same stage of development. The law should be consistent: either the fetus is a person, worthy of legal protection, or it is not.

    This is my Ted Talk.
     
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  15. NCHusker88

    NCHusker88 We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    My point is that if you take what each side of this issue believes about when life begins, only one of them is logically inconsistent
     
  16. AlternativeFactsRule

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  17. NCHusker88

    NCHusker88 We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Do you believe that issues like segregation, Jim Crow, slavery, etc should also be decided at the state level? If not, what makes this one different?
     
  18. marcus

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    theriner69er , to answer your question, I am pro-choice and I believe life begins at conception. Wrap your head around that.
     
  19. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    there are a lot of "I wouldn't want to's" in that scenario. I wouldn't want my daughter to be raped. or pregnant at that age. I wouldn't want her to have to suffer through an abortion, and her knowing what that meant and dealing with the mental anguish that's sure to cause for the rest of her life, on top of the obvious issues being raped and impregnated by your uncle would cause. I wouldn't want her to have to carry a child to term at 11 years old and actually give birth.

    her life would be forever changed, no matter what, in mostly awful ways. If I really felt strongly about being pro-life, maybe the only positive thing she could take form that would be the ability to give someone a healthy baby to adopt. I am not sure I feel that strongly about it though, and not sure I wouldn't do the quick, easy thing, even if thought it was wrong.
     
  20. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    I can't! If you believe that, then you believe every abortion is murder, right?
     
  21. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau

    That is not the question. The question is: when does the right to life of the potential human outweigh the right to body autonomy of the woman

    If life begins at conception, and we know from medical research that about half of all pregnancies end with spontaneous abortion (most before people even know that they're pregnant), then that makes God the most prolific babykiller in history

    Potential humans are constantly being snuffed out in the early stages of pregnancy, let's not get all weepy about it

    The question, again, is when does that potential human's right to life outweigh the mother's right to body autonomy. The answer must be based on when we think that mass of cells acquires sufficient humanity to gain rights of its own
     
  22. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    as is protecting life
     
  23. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
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    Honestly, I put my blinders on for this one. Because truthfully, I think all dudes should be “no choice”.
     
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  24. AlternativeFactsRule

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    Actually that’s mostly relegated to the states (with the exception of national defense)
     
  25. Fran Tarkenton

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  26. DaveGrohl

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    JFC

    “We should leave it up to each state to determine just how much they want to discriminate against women.”
     
  27. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    The whole "god is a prolific baby killer" is an interesting position. religious people often believe god makes choices like that all the time. "it wasn't my time' or "god called him to heaven", etc., as if god makes the final call on every living person. In that way, god creates and ends ALL life. God is the undefeated murder champ. He's murdered everyone who has ever lived.

    I think the potential human's life outweighs the mother's body autonomy specifically when it becomes a human life. So that is the question, when does life begin?
     
  28. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    soooo that's a yes?
     
  29. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    :awesomeface:
     
  30. NCHusker88

    NCHusker88 We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    By this logic god is also responsible for every abortion so we should be in the clear
     
  31. AlternativeFactsRule

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    It’s probably a pragmatic realization that he can’t possibly understand the experience of women that find themselves in the situation of having to consider an abortion and therefore shouldn’t be making their decisions about how they handle that decision.
     
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  32. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    true dat!
     
  33. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau

    No, it isn't. At 7 weeks a human embryo isn't human, it has all the physical characteristics of a tadpole except for viability. We dissect tadpoles in high school biology class. We destroy life all the time. The question is when does that life acquire sufficient humanity that we protect it. You get halfway, then backtrack to square one again. It's not about life. It's about human life. When does that potential human become sufficiently human is a question best answered by the medical and scientific community, perhaps with input from ethicists
     
  34. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    he is saying abortion is the taking of a human life. So apply your logic to anyone who has ever murdered anyone. Does that make sense?

    The only way you can legitimately be pro-choice is if you don't think it's a human life that's being ended. Otherwise you literally are advocating murder, and I'm not sure that's a defensible position.
     
  35. Doc Louis

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    "Oh this stuff can be proved? Whatever I'm choosing ignorance."
     
  36. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    ugh, when I said "life" in this instance I was speaking about human life, obviously. We agree here, stop arguing.
     
  37. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau

    Then use your words correctly. It's all we have to go on.
     
  38. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
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    I guess I’m advocating murder then.
     
  39. Stagger Lee

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    The 13th, 14th, 15th amendments
     
  40. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    I literally said

    and you said: it's not about life, it's about HUMAN life

    you are being silly. we agree. When does human life begin? No one is talking about giraffe lives, we are talking about human embryos, human fetus, human life, and human abortion. When does THAT life begin?
     
  41. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    You're smarter than this.
     
  42. electronic

    electronic Fan of the Seahawks and no other teams of note
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    It’s human life, but I think the issue is when people treat a zygote in the same manner as a 2 year old.

    They are different. They should be treated differently. They are both human life, but they aren’t equal.
     
  43. Stagger Lee

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    Nice straw man, but I never argued that. For the record, the 5th/14th amendments do not permit what you're suggesting.
     
  44. AlternativeFactsRule

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    I became less pro-murder when Urban Meyer retired.*

    *position subject to re-evaluation in December.
     
  45. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
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    This helps. I’m floundering for a way to explain my position on it and this is pretty much it.
     
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  46. AlternativeFactsRule

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    No it’s about understanding what other people are going though.

    I think every woman that gives me a blow job should swallow, but I recognize that that’s not really a decision anyone can make until they’ve been in that situation.
     
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  47. DaveGrohl

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    I think you’re trying really hard to sound intellectual while supporting abortion bans.
     
  48. AlternativeFactsRule

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    I’m just talking about the philosophical basis of our government and not anything to do with abortion specifically.
     
  49. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    what do you mean it's human life? At what stage?

    I agree they are not equal, but if we consider something a human life, does it not warrant at the very least, protection of that life? We treat 2 year olds differently than 18 year olds, but at the most basic level, we protect their lives, as human lives. it seems to me that the instant human life begins, no one can, after that point, voluntarily decide to end that life. At that point, it's murder.