Alabama bans nearly all abortions - Riner gets obsessed with young boys

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by lechnerd, May 15, 2019.

  1. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    “Abortion bans for some but no abortion bans for others” is tying yourself in logical knots to not just be pro-choice.
     
  2. electronic

    electronic Fan of the Seahawks and no other teams of note
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    I think anything that is human and alive is human life. Sperm is human life. I’m not sure how sperm would be otherwise characterized.
     
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  3. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    like I said, apply that to anyone who has ever murdered anyone. You can't possibly understand the experience of someone that finds themselves in the situation of having to consider taking a human life and therefore shouldn’t be making their decisions about how they handle that decision. Right?
     
  4. AlternativeFactsRule

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    Every cell in your body is human life. You end human life every time you eat.
     
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  5. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    so skin cells are human life?
     
  6. electronic

    electronic Fan of the Seahawks and no other teams of note
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    Sure. How do you define human life?
     
  7. Stagger Lee

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    Then I question your reading comprehension
     
  8. AlternativeFactsRule

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    No. I can understand the impulse to murder. I just explained that with respect to Urban Meyer. That’s a fundamental difference. We’ve all been incredibly angry at some point in our lives. We’ve all wished death on someone else at some point. We understand what it is to want to kill another person and we decide not to do it.
     
  9. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    That's the million dollar question that I don;'t have a great answer to. I don't thin skin cells are human life though.

    the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms,being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
     
  10. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau

    Look at your next fucking sentence. You go back to "when does life begin", which you've said numerous times before, as if it's something profound. It isn't. It isn't even useful, because it's the wrong question.

    As for when that mass of cells acquires sufficient humanity, that's best left to those who specialize in medicine and biology, and the ethics of what it means to be human. Others will likely focus on superficial characteristics like fingers or a heartbeat, which may have nothing to do with inherent humanity. Personally, I tend to suspect that transformation occurs in the weeks following the end of the first trimester, even though the fetus is nowhere near viable. But that's an informed layman's opinion, nothing more. The scientific, medical, and ethical community can set specific criteria (probably tied closely to brain development, which we like to think sets us apart from the rest of the animal world) and give way more than merely opinion.
     
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  11. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    The federal government’s is limited to specifically enumerated powers. It does not and should not have sweeping jurisdiction over any matter declared to be a fundamental right.
     
  12. electronic

    electronic Fan of the Seahawks and no other teams of note
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    Why aren’t skin cells human life? They are certainly human. They are alive.

    Your definition is entirely arbitrary.
     
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  13. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    But some people HAVE. That's why you don't fully understand it, and can never really understand it.

    You are describing broad similarities. I could do the same. We've all had to make life-changing decisions, been depressed, felt trapped and scared and frozen with fear and guilt and pain, and made choices that impacted the rest of our lives, positively and negatively.

    That I've never actually been impregnated is akin to saying while you've felt similar feelings, you've never actually been in this specific situation (fill in the blank with whatever actual murder that's happened), and never actually murdered anyone.

    I support the abortion of Urban Meyer, and I think it's murder, and I'm ok with it.
     
  14. AlternativeFactsRule

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    You can quibble about whether or not enshrining abortion as a constitutional right was appropriate at all or whether doing so via a Supreme Court ruling was appropriate. But arguing that the federal government shouldn’t have the authority to ensure the fundamental rights of its citizens is a radical interpretation of civil rights. It’s akin to arguing that even though the constitution guarantees a woman’s right to vote, the federal government shouldn’t interfere if a state wants to prevent women from voting.

    If your argument is that abortion should be a constitutional amendment if we wish to prevent states from banning them, say that. Don’t say that the federal government shouldn’t be protecting the fundamental rights of American citizens.
     
  15. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    ehhhh my definition was literally text book

    I'm not entirely sure, personally. I think brain activity could indicate human life.
     
  16. AlternativeFactsRule

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    This is the flaw in your argument
     
  17. theriner69er

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    you are saying: no, I understand murder, I've felt that way, I've been angry and wanted to kill someone. Ok, if that's your position, then I can apply that to pregnancy as well, and do everything I can to apply how I've felt similarly in the past, and understand how that must feel. Frankly, any guy who's knocked a woman up should have some understanding of those feelings, right? The same way you have a good understanding of what a murderer feels.

    If your counter is: yea but you don't really know how it feels to be pregnant because you are a man, you have never actually been pregnant, etc. etc., then I think that also applies to your understanding of how a murderer feels. Unless you've murdered someone you don't really know what that feels like and can't really relate.
     
  18. AlternativeFactsRule

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    No. You can’t.
     
  19. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    No. You can’t.
     
  20. AlternativeFactsRule

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    Keep posting dumb arguments. I’m getting there
     
  21. superfly0212

    superfly0212 Where are my testicles, Summer?
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    [​IMG]
    So which one is considered life? I’d have to go with around stage 19. I have no reason or way to back it up.
     
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  22. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Umm I'm posting your arguments. You think you know what it's like to murder someone because you've been angry before.
     
  23. Eathan Edwards

    Eathan Edwards Well-Known Member

    Maybe I'm entirely obtuse, but I also find it weird that more people in both parties aren't aggressively focused on just reducing unwanted and/or non-consensual conception, seemingly more focused on arguing the allowance specifics of terminating a current pregnancy.

    Seems like helping people that didn't want to father/birth a child - to not ever conceiving one - would be a solid win for all involved.
     
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  24. AlternativeFactsRule

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    How do you think the Democratic Party is working to undermine adequate sex education and access to contraceptives? This isn’t a both sides issue.
     
  25. Eathan Edwards

    Eathan Edwards Well-Known Member

    Not claiming they are - but as I mentioned before, the ACA not covering vasectomy is my one personal annoyance.

    But moreso I was just making the statement that I certainly never hear anyone pitch that angle in my minimal political reading/viewing.
     
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  26. Stagger Lee

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    Show me in where in the Constitution a branch of the federal government has the power to protect any fundamental right or even defines what rights are indeed "fundamental"

    The Constitution does protect a woman's right to vote. The 19th amendment expressly does this. Even without the 19th Amendment, the right should be secured by the 14th amendment's due process and equal protection clauses, which would effectively prevent states from outlawing a woman's right to vote because there is no conceivable state interest sufficiently compelling to support such a law.

    Under the text of the Constitution, I do not believe the federal government has the power to protect or to outlaw abortion. When we start ignoring the text of the Constitution, even for good intentions or to support laws that most or all support, we still create bad precedent that can lay the groundwork for future bad laws and federal overreach. See Donald Trump.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact. If it fails in any respect then it can be amended following the procedures that were originally ratified by the states.
     
  27. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
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    One party/side is trying to go that. The other side/party isn’t.
     
  28. electronic

    electronic Fan of the Seahawks and no other teams of note
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    No, and it’s monstrous to be required to do so in every circumstance. If we requiring “life saving/extending” intervention for every human life, we’d end up performing shitloads of resuscitations and/or prolonging the suffering of thousands of people who have no hope of recovery and are suffering from multiple co-morbidities.

    People who are dying of cancer shouldn’t be forced to “live” additional days, weeks, or months because a ventilator and feeding tube can technically keep an electric pulse firing from time to time.
     
  29. AlternativeFactsRule

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    The Democratic Party is likely to have a platform of universal healthcare in 2020. The Republican Party still thinks how much money you have should determine the medical care you should receive. The Republican justices on the Supreme Court decided to undermine the ACA’s mandate that employers cover contraceptives in their healthcare plans. This is not a both sides issue.

    The Republican Party is as uniformly anti-science in its sex education and contraception stances as it is in its abortion, climate, immigration, and economic positions.
     
  30. AlternativeFactsRule

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    So you’re conflating three arguments.

    1. Abortion should/shouldn’t be a constitutional right
    2. The Supreme Court should/shouldn’t confer a constitutional right in its rulings
    3. The federal government does/doesn’t have the authority to protect the fundamental constitutional rights of its citizens.

    My initial discussion with you was only about argument #3 - not #1 or #2. As for the philosophical justification for the federal government’s role in protecting the liberty of its citizens, you need read no further than the preamble of the constitution.
     
  31. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    if abortion is a safety net, you allow for some wiggle room, some thinking of well, worst case scenario abortion is a last resort option. When that's off the table, you damn sure better make sure you are doing everything you need to do to not get pregnant if you don' want a kid.

    But that's too much to ask. You can't ask grown adults to be responsible, you just can't!
     
  32. electronic

    electronic Fan of the Seahawks and no other teams of note
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    Should men be criminally/civilly responsible if women they impregnate get abortions?
     
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  33. AlternativeFactsRule

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    “No safe sex method is 100% effective”

    Riner: “yeah okay, but lets just ignore that for this discussion”

    “Rape is a thing that still exists.”

    Riner: “yeah okay, but lets just ignore that for this discussion”

    “Not everyone that gets pregnant is a mentally competent adult”

    Riner: “yeah okay, but lets just ignore that for this discussion”

    Pretending real life doesn’t exist may be fun but it doesn’t strengthen your arguments.
     
  34. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    I mean...none of these are really my position, but ok.

    If you REALLY don't want to get pregnant or get someone pregnant, don't have sex. That's 100% effective. but wahhh I want to fuck, don't tell me what to do. Ok, fine. Consequences, how do they work?

    If you are willing to assume the risks, then a woman having sex should be on the pill and a guy should wear a condom. The combined effectiveness of those is near 100%. and/or use a diaphragm. get the shots. track your periods and make educated guesses as to when you ovulate. There are fucking apps on your phone that give you at least SOME idea of your ovulation schedule. I'd never, ever trust that as the lone method of brth control, but add it to the mix, right? And any woman on the pill, getting shots, using a diaphragm should know it doesn't protect against STDs anyways, so condoms should, theoretically, be a must every time. Ohhh but that dick feels so good! cool, consequences, how do they work?

    Rape is awful. There are children who were born because of rape. Ask them if they would have preferred to have been aborted. t's not an easy topic and there is no "good answer to what to do after someone has become pregnant because of rape. Your answer sucks. My answer sucks. They all suck. It's all bad. I'm not ignoring anything. You just don't agree with my answer, so you'd prefer to misrepresent it.

    Facts: I know what it's like to murder people because I've been SUPER mad before.
    Also Facts: Pretending real life doesn’t exist may be fun but it doesn’t strengthen your arguments
     
  35. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    This is your daughter:

    Are you going to force her to have the child?

    I don't need a novel. A simple yes or no is all I want.
     
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  36. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    I already answered your question, and my answer is I don't know.
     
  37. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    You're a sorry excuse for a father if you force your 11 year old daughter to have a child bc she was raped.
     
  38. Duck2013

    Duck2013 Fake Ass Teeth
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    If you’re struggling to answer the question of whether or not you would want your own daughter to give birth to the child of the person who raped her you need to be dropped off in the trench we dumped bin laden in.

    It’s that simple.
     
  39. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
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    Now imagine it’s an 11 year old.
     
  40. Duck2013

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    Sick fucks.
     
  41. Aaron Nevilles Pet Tick

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    Have we addressed how this bill will affect Alabama recruiting going forward...
     
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  42. DistantFactor

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    Most of the things you quote here require money & not all are covered by health insurance. So in other words you are ok with people of means having sex but poor people without access to these shouldn't.

    Coincidentally the majority of abortions are to people of low economic standing without access to the above.

    Yet the same pro-life people want to restrict access to these things, particularly low income people.

    Why do you want to make sex something only people of means can enjoy?
     
  43. Duck2013

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    Imagine a world here in the US where it was law that you had to be handcuffed to the individual who killed your love ones. No way out of it.

    By not allowing abortions when rape and incest is involved that is essentially what we would be forcing women to do. Become handcuffed to that trauma and pain forever.
     
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  44. Aaron Nevilles Pet Tick

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    It depends. What was her attackers Height, Weight, & 40 time?
     
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  45. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    if my 11 year old is raped and impregnated by her uncle, I may welcome being dropped off in that trench. This was my answer the first time I addressed the question

     
  46. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    because if they abort the baby, the pain and trauma is removed.
     
  47. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Not having to see the kid every fucking day for the rest of their lives makes it easier to block it out and move on.
     
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  48. ButchCassidy

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    Nah, just simply give the kid up for adoption :hurfdurf:
     
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  49. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    People with means? We aren't talking about buying a summer house in the Hamptons here, it's $50/month (tops) for the pill, condoms cost $1-$2. The ovulation tracker is free. How much are you fucking? Maybe cut it back if it's becoming a financial burden to not get pregnant.

    And how much does an abortion cost??
     
  50. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Yea, a lot of times that's what is recommended; block it out and move on. That's healthy. What could go wrong?