Another Boeing crash

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by NineteenNine, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Airline pilots are over paid bus drivers, nothing more nothing less
    The only decision they make is if they are going to hit snooze or get up on the first alarm in the morning.
     
  2. THF

    THF Banned From Hogville for Being an Ass
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    At least this will be where all the good bands end up.
     
  3. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    I had a Chuck Yaeger flight sim back in like 1988 on whatever slow ass PC existed then. AMA.
     
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  4. laxjoe

    laxjoe Well-Known Member
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  5. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    Yeah, that’s a problem.
     
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  6. Bankz

    Bankz I'm a sick guy
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    why would they put engines that are to big for the plane on the plane? Seems like a lazy and beyond costly mistake. Was just a way of not having to manufacture another engine?
     
  7. Llama

    Llama New Member
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    The bigger fans were more efficient
     
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  8. dallasdawg

    dallasdawg does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
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    is it basically the same engine on the 787s? because lol if true. those things are monsters
     
  9. HoosDaMan

    HoosDaMan Grumpy
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    I’d murder the person that made that decision had I lost a loved one.
     
  10. THF

    THF Banned From Hogville for Being an Ass
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  11. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Billionaire Playboy
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  12. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    “The result is that we have a runaway trim checklist—and a procedure” to work around it. You turn off the electric trim and go to a manual reversion. It’s something we train for. It is true that Boeing didn’t tell anyone about it [MCAS]—so that is problematic.”

    He noted that the control yokes on models with the new technology have a lighter feel than on previous 737 models and can be touchy at high angles of attack. “The idea of the new system is, if it trims a little down, you’ll pull the same [force] as in the old airplanes.” In previous versions of the 737, “When you pull five pounds of force on the yoke, you get five degrees of pitch change, and when you pull 10 pounds, you get 10 degrees” of pitch change.

    However, “On the MAX, it only takes about a 10-pound pull to get 15 degrees of pitch” because the aircraft responds quicker to input. “The trim system dials in about 2.5 degrees of nose-down trim in a little less than 10 seconds,” he added. “On the ground it feels different on the nose and the sight picture is a little different” from previous 737 models. “It’s [enough to be] noticeable,” the pilot said.

    So not only did they add a new system, they changed the way the controls feel. This seems like a bad idea.
     
  13. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Billionaire Playboy
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    The bad idea was doing that and then not telling anyone
     
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  14. Randy Dangus

    Randy Dangus Comanche Indian
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    Found this thread and thought it was pretty interesting summation from a software engineer.

     
  15. Goose

    Goose Hi
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    FarEastJets
     
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  16. FarEastJets

    FarEastJets Old guy trying to hang out with the cool kids.
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  17. laxjoe

    laxjoe Well-Known Member
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  18. Handcuffed

    Handcuffed TMB OG
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  19. Seavie

    Seavie Loading tweet...
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    Nevermind
     
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  20. TC

    TC Tell me about your dream mosque
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    “Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment
    in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.”
     
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  21. GoodForAnother

    GoodForAnother I got a little problem with you not fuckin me
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    The engines aren’t “too big” for the airplane. They are mounted forward a bit more leading to the possibility of a stall condition in certain angles of attack. The failure by Boeing was the failure to adequately train pilots and errors in the software. Every single plane in the sky can get into a stall condition, but if the pilots don’t know what’s going on and how to fix it, that’s a big problem. So not really an engineering problem but a problem of lack of training in the pursuit of gaining an edge by not requiring training. If they knew about it and trained on it they’d have known what to do when the system failed.

    Anyone who thinks a bunch of aeronautical engineers at a company with the resources of Boeing would accidentally choose engines they are too large needs their head checked
     
  22. Artoo

    Artoo Ah Skywalker, Missed you I have.
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    Don't be a moron.
     
  23. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    From what I've read, they are physically too big to be mounted where the old engines were. The rear landing gear can't be made taller so the engines had to be pushed forward bc they wouldn't fit. Every issue and fix started there.
     
  24. LionInMD

    LionInMD Well-Known Member
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    The 737 was originally built back in the day when there were no Jetways or motorized luggage loaders. So boeing decided to make the 737 lower to the ground so that it was easier to load luggage and move passengers off the plane easier. The 737 used to have those long jet engines so clearance wasn't an issue. When newer engines were added to the 737, there had to be something like 17 inches of clearance and to get that done they had to make the bottom of the 737 engine flat, thats why you see the odd shaped engines on 737s
    [​IMG]

    With the Max engines, even bigger but more efficient, they could'nt get the 17 inch clearance without moving them forward. Like someone mentioned, you are putting new world engineering on an over 50 year old design. Seems lazy, greedy, and a really poor decision by FAA to allow it.
     
  25. Redav

    Redav My favorite meat is hot dog
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    The same thing happened with the Airbus and the Air France flight that went into the ocean like 10 years ago. There was nothing wrong with the plane but the pilot was confused, thought it was stalling and essentially flew it into the ocean.
     
  26. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Billionaire Playboy
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    tfw you see the 797 engines will be even bigger :warn:
     
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  27. CaneKnight

    CaneKnight Fuck Donald Trump
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    Are you unaware of how capitalism works good sir? Immediate Profits >>>>>>>> human life
     
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  28. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Billionaire Playboy
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    The pitot tubes had frozen over resulting in inaccurate speed readings that forced the autopilot to be disconnected, but correct- there were no mechanical failures and the storm they were flying through at the time was not too severe as to be a danger to the aircraft.
     
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  29. Redav

    Redav My favorite meat is hot dog
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    Been a while since I've read up on it but I believe the data recorder said the co-pilot who initially reacted to the stall warning never took his stick out of the forward position the entire descent.
     
  30. NineteenNine

    NineteenNine Divers are, in fact, wankers. It's science.
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    [​IMG]
     
  31. bwhit21

    bwhit21 Well-Known Member
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    That was a messed up crash report. I don’t understand why the most experienced pilot that was napping didn’t get the youngest out of the chair when he returned to the cockpit.
     
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  32. LionInMD

    LionInMD Well-Known Member
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    think it was literally too late when the Pilot got back to the cockpit
     
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  33. Redav

    Redav My favorite meat is hot dog
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    It was insane that something like that caused the crash. The pitot tubes were only giving incorrect speeds for like a minute iirc.
     
  34. GoodForAnother

    GoodForAnother I got a little problem with you not fuckin me
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    Too big to be where the old engines are doesn’t mean they are too big for the plane. If they were too big for the airplane every single 737 Max 8 would either not fly or immediately crash
     
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  35. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    speaking of giant engines we had to ride the bus from the plane to the terminal at LAX (had to do way off site gate due to guy dying) and we had to let an a380 go by so was extremely close on ground level to one

    its stupendously cartoonishly what the fuck large
     
  36. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    "Too big for the plane" means "Too big to be a plug and play so modifications had to be made and those mods led to issues." I figured that was assume but I hope that helps the "Too big for the place" comments.
     
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  37. THF

    THF Banned From Hogville for Being an Ass
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    Seems a pilot riding on the Lion airplane which crashed was able to save it the day before it crashed.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...in-cockpit-saved-a-737-max-that-later-crashed

    The question is why weren’t pilots able to do this both in the Lion air crash and if the same scenario occurred in the Ethiopian crash; why they werent prepared for it and didn’t execute a checklist they were required to memorize?
     
  38. Tobias

    Tobias doubtful...not with brexit
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    excerpt for those who don’t wanna read. nuts

     
  39. Tobias

    Tobias doubtful...not with brexit
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    there is a great longform on this that i will have to find when i am in front of a computer. it’s scary to read. just a normal flight and then boom straight into the ocean
     
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  40. bwi2

    bwi2 Not affiliated with BWI
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    So even though this shows that a third crew would have put the plane into the ground, THF thinks the article means there isn’t any systemic problem with the plane or the training provided to fly it.
     
  41. Tobias

    Tobias doubtful...not with brexit
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    you know what they say...four strikes and you’re out
     
  42. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby I don’t cry. I Saab.

    When there was only one set of footprints in the sand, it was then that some random interloper, catching a free ride home, had read the materials that Boeing hath not disseminated.
     
  43. THF

    THF Banned From Hogville for Being an Ass
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    This shows that if you don’t follow the checklists, simple problems can doom any aircraft.
     
  44. THF

    THF Banned From Hogville for Being an Ass
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    While I agree with this; the process of fixing the undisclosed system was the exact same checklist for fixing what is called “runaway trim”. That’s nothing new to any 737 pilot.
     
  45. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby I don’t cry. I Saab.

    They actually only doom the 737 Max 8
     
  46. TC

    TC Tell me about your dream mosque
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    ABC another Boeing crash
     
  47. Clown Baby

    Clown Baby I don’t cry. I Saab.

    I’ve got no beef with you, THF, but do you work for/with Boeing?
     
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  48. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Teardrops on my Aioli.
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    No, his dad just had the right stuff.
     
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  49. THF

    THF Banned From Hogville for Being an Ass
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    Not even a shareholder.

    I simply think it’s ridiculous how this story has changed and been shaped. When the Lion air crash happened so many talked about how poor their maintenance and training was and it was a non starter.

    Now with the second crash it’s become a giant conspiracy and coverup. Boeing needs to answer for any corners they cut and the FAA needs to be evaluated for their impartiality.

    My personal opinion is Boeing makes a much easier and operator friendly aircraft than Airbus. I fly quite regularly and think it’s ridiculous the arm chair QBs calling the engines “too big” or the MCAS system a horrible idea when similar systems are used in other aircraft without issue.

    A lot of people in this thread are talking out of their ass. But hey this is a message board. I don’t claim to have all the answers.