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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Barves2125, May 28, 2015.
Like... I guess this goes here?
That guy needs to be put down
Yeah that’s definitely a bad cop.
The replies are good
Two police officers in Honolulu, Hawaii, who allegedly forced a homeless man to lick a urinal in a public restroom were charged with civil rights offenses, federal authorities said.
Weintraub declined to charge Zimmerman, ruling that the shooting was “neither justified nor criminal, but was excused.” The prosecutor noted that both the gun and Taser were holstered on the officer’s dominant side, his right, which he said was a violation of department policy.
He said he believed that Zimmerman, whose base salary was $96,383, was eligible to collect a pension, but said the amount had not been calculated by the state pension office as of Wednesday.
Cliffs: Officer gets let go from a police department then rehired in a smaller town close by and is now interim chief. The mayor of the town he is in now is also facing trouble as he has blatantly ignored multiple complaints about the officer.
Oh he also altered an accident report involving another officers daughter so she wouldn’t be at fault. He admitted to it as well.
The mayor admits to deleting complaints about the officer in the posts above because he didn’t want them to come up in a FOIA request. Officers in the department are now contacting the FBI.
Mayor Edwards: "What's sad is, it's was caused by our own people. How do you stop that? How do I keep that from happening in the future?"
Hence why they’re contacting the FBI. It’s a small town and has always been horrible but now the corruption is being brought to light.
That quote is so infuriating. What do you do? You fire him and have him charged for the crimes he committed behind the badge. It's not hard.
This shit is getting out of hand, this guy was straight up executed
Getting? It's way beyond out of control. He was putting it down, just as they told him to. No aggressive action at all.
That's not ok. He did exactly what they said. They have to be held accountable. I know they wont but damn.
It’s hard for me to blame the cops for shooting someone with a gun. He was lowering it but he could have easily changed his mind and shot at the cops. He shouldn’t have reached for it let alone been illegally carrying a concealed weapon. His actions directly lead to him being shot.
They told him to put the gun down and he was following their directions.
Yeah he did and they probably shouldn’t have shot him but it’s hard for me to completely blame the cops in this situation. He shouldn’t have reached for the gun and he shouldn’t have been carrying one. Those two things directly lead to him being shot.
They had no idea if he had the gun legally or illegally. With the gun laws we have, shooting someone for having a gun just can't be done. We have thousands of Bubbas that rude around with a shotgun in the truck window. How many of those end up dead?
How is he supposed to put it down if he cant reach for it?
He shouldn’t have reached for it at all. I got pulled over yesterday. I didn’t move my hands from the steering wheel. Not once did I reach for anything. I know the cops told him to put down the gun and they set him up for a no win situation but in this instance putting his hands up and ignoring that command would have been the smart thing to do.
By what I read it appears that the assumption that he was illegally carrying one is a safe one for me to make. I am not completely excusing the cops in this situation I just don’t think they are 100% at fault.
I dont even know how to respond to this. Carrying a gun, legally or illegally, isnt enough to kill someone. He didnt make any aggressive action toward them. He didnt raise the gun. Carrying a gun isnt a capital offense and if a cop cant handle seeing someone with one without killing them for having it, they shouldn't be a cop.
Again, thousands of Bubba's proudly display guns in their truck windows every day. How many of them die for it?
And at saying he would have been better off ignoring their commands. He followed their commands and ended up dead. You really think he would have lived if he had disobeyed them? I mean come on man.
I think I agree with you more than disagree. He shouldn’t be dead and they shouldn’t have told him to drop the gun. But, he also shouldn’t have been carrying one and he shouldn’t have reached. His actions along with the cops’ played a role maybe even a more significant one in his death.
Yeah I do think him not reaching for anything putting his hands over or on his head would have been a smarter course of action.
If we assume he wasnt legally carrying, I agree, he shouldn't have had it. He should have been arrested and charged for it, not killed. As for not reaching, he was literally following their orders. Literally. Blaming him doing that is absurd.
Let's be honest, that cop was petrified of a black man with a gun and was going to shoot him at first movement, regardless what that movement was.
Blaming the victim is wrong of me you’re right about that and I shouldn’t have done that.
This happened in NC where it is legal to carry without a permit, they never said that he possessed that gun illegally so I’m assuming he was in legal possession of the gun.
Also the cops are saying that because he did not reach for the gun sooner they were justified in shooting him ignoring the fact that he probably did not drop the right away because he knew better than to reach for the gun but when the cop continues to escalate he finally complied. He probably gets shot even if he never reached for the gun.
If you are disobeying a command, and you have a gun, I have no sympathy. But in this instance he was doing exactly what he was told. It was a close call though, as the guy was taking forever.
*didnt read the other posts yet.
Like I posted me blaming the victim in this situation was wrong. I stand corrected and unfortunately this man was damned if he did damned if he didn’t.
He could have disobeyed and sat there for 2 weeks with the gun in his pocket and he shouldn't have been shot. The ONLY time a cop should shoot is if someone makes an aggressive action towards them. Sitting still isnt an aggressive action.
another aspect that often comes up is officer positioning. Notice how the first cop is behind his car door. Then the shooting cop puts him/herself in a vulnerable spot. I’m assuming that the shooting cop handled it per their training. That is probably the best way in regards to making the suspect backdown. I’m not arguing that, but the victim doesn’t get shot if the cop isn’t worried about being shot.
I doubt they followed their training because I can’t believe that any department would train their officers to ask people to reach for their guns.
It would depend on the scenario/facts. If you have your hands on your head then maybe the LEO would just take the gun off the suspect.
but I would also say that “set your gun on the ground” is the most overused command in Hollywood ;)
Cc: Jack Parkman
Nope the training is to have them keep their hands on their head if they are standing
That way if they do try to reach for the gun their hands are much further away from the gun
So in a scenario where the person is squatting, wouldn’t it be better to ask them to stand with their hands on their heads as opposed to asking them to reach in their pocket and place their gun on the ground?
Maybe this is a question that should be answered by your commanding officer
I’m not giving any order that puts his hands anywhere but on top of or over his head. I’m also going to tell him, repeatedly, to not move his hands.
Didn’t read the whole thing but is this about the Charlotte vagrant?
I was commenting on the position of officers. One officer kept distance and used his door as a shield. 2nd officer walked up to suspect. My thought was that officers are trained to get front and center (clear shot) with a suspect, take control by command, but at a cost of leaving themselves vulnerable. I assume that I personally would be more likely to shoot a suspect if I was close and not shielded, ie because I know he could easily shoot me. But me and Mister Me Too weren't sure on the typical procedure/policy. Obviously it changes per agency.
Jack Parkman and NoleNBlue i said it would have been better for him not to listen to the cops and put his hands on his head or up. Would that have been better/smarter? TIA
We're taught to utilize cover whenever possible.
dblplay1212 as you see I was right thus continue to be undefeated on the internet
I forget which case but the Judge commented something like "common sense should always beat policy." Which is a thought process that applies to many arguments (safety over precision in driving, etc etc). And it just appears that in many instances the LEO wouldn't have shot if they weren't 5 feet from the suspect with no cover. There were multiple cars to use as a shield in this video for example.
but as usual we are arm-chairing it ITT and have no experience, just sucks someone had to die.