tell me again at how great the EU is at producing trade agreements http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37749236 "Mr Michel said he had told European Council President Donald Tusk that Belgium could not sign the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (Ceta). The other 27 EU governments want to sign Ceta, which has been in the pipeline for seven years."
Plus it's one French-speaking area of Belgium that is preventing the whole country from signing (which is preventing the whole EU from signing). I think that they've given them until Monday to get on board, though.
Belgium has always been a split country. The francophone Walloons are 41 percent of the population and the Dutch-speaking Flemish are most of the rest. They had to switch from a consolidated government to a federal system a couple decades ago to stave off separatism, but the two regions have always had different attitudes.
right, what i'm saying is that this has always been a problem with the EU. if it's not the walloons it is luxembourger bankers or french dairy farmers or italian manufacturers. There's always some constituency who is dead-set against trade liberalization.
meh, still gonna happen now just more complex -- Experts say parliament is unlikely to block Brexit outright. But the ruling could mean Brexit is delayed, particularly by opposition in the upper chamber -- the House of Lords. Lawmakers may get a chance to influence what kind of deal the government negotiates with the EU. The main opposition Labour Party has already said it won't try to block Brexit and instead will use the ruling to push for a Brexit "that works for Britain, putting jobs, living standards and the economy first."
I really hope EU negotiators are downright spiteful in their stance. All the leverage is on one end and it should be played accordingly to me
Why on earth would anyone want to be spiteful? No benefit to the EU to be spiteful. EU certainly has more leverage, but if Britain leaves on WTO terms, it will be damaging to EU as well. And another why? Doesn't look like it's going to happen. Super nationalists are trying to play it up but polls consistently show small minority of Scots want a second referendum.
Thought this article was pretty interesting. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39409513 Is NI further along the path of independence? Apologies for being super ignorant on the topic.
Because nationalism is fucking stupid, and I hope that the rest of the world sees how bad it is on a small scale so that it doesn't cause more instability worldwide. And also to fuck England for leaving the EU.
So you want to punish nationalism in the U.K. as a whole by encouraging nationalism in a constituent nation. Not sure I see the logic in that. Don't understand why them leaving is a bad thing. Britain has always been a very unnatural member of the EU and the British public has never supported the ever greater union aspect.
There's no push for NI independence. And there's no chance anywhere in the near future of a border poll to unite with Ireland either.
I want to disincentivice nationalism on a worldwide level by having England experience a bad outcome. Honestly, speaking of logic, there is no way that England can simultaneously take the position that leaving the EU is good, but breaking up the UK is bad. The EU is a stabilizing force in Europe and the UK is the second largest economy in it. If the UK leaving the EU is the only thing that happens, I would agree that it isn't a big deal ultimately. However, you'd have to completely ignore what is happening in France to take that position. I was relieved to see that the Dutch had a backlash against nationalism. I want to make sure that response is supported.
This is almost as blind as when you said Russia was not interfering in Europe/American elections. Very well will remain the minority view, but there is some % of a 'push'. And saying summarily there will be no push in the future once the economic realities of brexit negatively impact NI? Hah.
They've been a net contributor, not beneficiary for their entire membership. For a long time, they paid in something like more than 4 times what they got back. Until Margaret Thatcher negotiated a rebate which left them with only a 33% gap. Very interesting report by House of Lords committee, not composed of Brexiters, concluded that nothing was owed. Will be interesting to watch.
Never said Russia was not interfering. I specifically stated that accusations of Russian financial support for radical right parties in Europe has little to no evidentiary support. Of course they meddled in our presidential election. And no, there is no push for Northern Irish independence at all. No party in the province pushes for such an option.
Not so sure they did. Thankfully Wilders didn't break through, but Mark Rutte turned into Wilders lite in order to solidify his vote. It was pathetic.
When Britain first, at Heaven's command Arose from out the azure main; This was the charter of the land, And guardian angels sang this strain: "Rule, Britannia! Britannia rule the waves: "Britons never never never shall be slaves."
I'm not convinced that would affect the logic behind it, but I don't know enough about the topic to debate it intelligently.
i think it comes down to self-interest on England's part. They believe the UK acts in their interests (naturally, since they basically control it), and the EU doesn't.
Your argument boils down to saying that if someone were to say that the U.K. leaving the EU is "good," then that same person would have to say that any territory or group of peoples seceding and founding a separate sovereign nation is also a "good." But that's not true
No, my argument boils down to the position that if England believes that they should leave the EU for the benefit of England, then they should also respect Scotland's position with regard to the UK.
Personally I've never considered the idea of France, Netherlands, etc, leaving the EU to be a serious threat. I always believed that they were in a fundamentally different position than the UK. These continental european nations were always economic protectionists, competing against their neighbors, militarizing their borders, and generally behaving in very small-minded ways. The EU is great for them because it forces them to open up with one another and harmonize their regulations. However, the EU is inward-looking, and consistently fails to negotiate deals with non-European nations. The UK, by comparison, doesn't need what the EU is providing. It was the center of a maritime empire. They basically invented free trade as we know it today, and the British Commonwealth has about 2.4 billion people. If anything, the EU forces the UK to be more small-minded and "European", and less global.
"Respect" is different than whether it's objectively beneficial or not, which is what I thought we were talking about. You said "good" and "bad" originally.
I agree this isn't comparable to leaving a sovereign state, but lol at comparing this to an expiring contract. This is leaving mid contract. It will be interesting to see how the EU handles this. If they stay strong, as they shou, UK is boned.
Britain leaving the EU is an aim for the Russians and anti-western govts. Disrupting the economic and political union in Europe only serves to undo the post-WWII order that has largely brought peace/stability. Youre either a far right/left extremist or were never taught World War 2 history to be anti-EU.
taking a bit of a hit in the short term does 2 things 1 it sets a precedent 2 It would take a bunch of the financial instutions from the UK to mainland europe in the long run. I legitmately think the amount of economy that can be taken away from the UK is worth more than the losing of a trading partner in the long run but mainly the point is that the UK has been getting special considerations all the way, theyve profited more than almost any other region from a bunch of the subsidies as well as the business interest it accrued on the back of mainland economic development so if they choose to fuck off because they think they can pick whatever part of the grand scheme of deals they want they can just go screw themselves. I for one will be laughing if they go so broke they have to ride rovers again