UK Politics: Brexit, Tories, Labour, Scotties, IRA, etc.

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Shock Linwood, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. Hoss Bonaventure

    Hoss Bonaventure I can’t pee with clothes touching my butt
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    A bippity boopity bippity boop.
     
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  2. Goose

    Goose Hi
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    Can someone write us an executive summary on each major European country’s politics?

    Preferably with bullet points

    Thanks and god bless
     
  3. theregionsitter

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    Basically the north (where all the money and industry is) hates immigrants

    The rest of the country also hates immigrants but has really bad economic issues decided to start voting for a quasi cult

    Bunga bunga

    No government
     
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  4. Goose

    Goose Hi
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    Sounds familiar
     
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  5. Frankie Carbone

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    The 2 parties (Eurosceptic, anti immigration) who won majorities in elections are forming a coalition within the government but the president shot down anyone being appointed from either party so they’re doing another election
     
  6. Wicket

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    Germany (proportional representation)
    - Centre Right party has been in power since forever
    - Classic left party has gone tits up
    - AfD is basically the new skinhead party
    - New left wing parties are also emerging and gaining popularity
    - "Wir Shaffen das" currently seems to be more or less true
    - Hugely aging population. The worker to retiree rate is climbing allarmingly

    France (proportional represenation but with elected president)
    - Presidents always have weird sexual stories. This one is married to his former high school teacher.
    - President chosen from a relatively small centre party just because the other candidates were to unpalateable
    - Their edition of the racist party actually has a woman in charge
    - Current ruling party & prez really pro business
    - Labor unions are REALLY strong still. Despite that productivity is one of the highest in the civilized world. Institutional memory and such.

    Spain (proportional representation)
    - Catalunya want independence, which really is quite silly from the outside looking in
    - Spain is still ruled by a generation who grew up under, and are used to, dictatorship. So speaking of things like independence is considered treasonous in the rest of Spain
    - King is powerless/harmless but exceedingly stupid nevertheless
    - Basically a 3 party system with some small stuff scattered around
    - Like in the entirety of Europe the old left wing party is pretty much dead. Centre right party has dominated politics with the new innovative left party gaining votes fast.

    Ill add more later but this is
     
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  7. AIOLICOCK

    AIOLICOCK https://www.antifa.org/
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    Odds Russia is fomenting discontent in Italy?
     
  8. Gallant Knight

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    Pretty low? Their citizens are just super anti immigration. It makes a little more sense for them considering how homogenous Italy is
     
  9. VaxRule

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    I think you need to read up on Berlusconi
     
  10. Where Eagles Dare

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    Basically they are all left of center and their conservative parties have been in line with our true moderates/seeing voters.

    Now true nationalists have been surging for a few years across Europe mostly in the backs of anti immigration and racist/nationalist views
     
  11. three stacks

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    even the far right nationalist parties of Europe still advocate for maintaining of a state backed welfare system; just not for anyone who doesn’t look like them. the American GOP is the most far right of any party in western democracy
     
  12. Where Eagles Dare

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    Yes, I was trying to say that

    Our right wing is not like Europes right wing
     
  13. (Z)

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    Um, no.

    He shot down a single person for a single job.

    It still probably was not a wise thing to do, as it's likely to cause a spike in support for Lega.
     
  14. Jay Jay Okocha

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    Plenty of centre/right of centre parties in power across Europe. Of course as mentioned the definition of right wing is different elsewhere.

    The Tories in the U.K. are right wing, but as cutting the NHS isn’t popular they don’t really touch it with cuts and go at other things in more extreme ways. They are also naturally more inclined towards neo liberal policies like Free Trade but have had a few decades long breakdown over giving power to Europe in doing that and hence Brexit. Immigration is the other big headache.

    Macron is to the centre and is pushing for labour reform.

    The CDU are to the centre. But where they have pushed immigration, Merkel voted against gay marriage last year.

    There is an awful lack of genuine fiscal conservatives in Europe. Even the term austerity annoys me. I would say the Tories would be closest in disposition but they have their sacred cows mentioned above.
     
  15. Lyrtch

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    england is also destroying itself with austerity measures
     
  16. Bruce Wayne

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    100%
     
  17. (Z)

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    What? They're running up huge amounts of debt every day.

    If that's austerity, what's largess?
     
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  18. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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  19. (Z)

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    You won't get any argument from me that they've made cuts. And often in stupid ways. And beyond welfare, the state of the UK military is ridiculous. They continue to spend tons on Trident while reducing their conventional forces to a tiny amount. But, I just can't look at a fairly high deficit each year as being austerity.

    You'd think the Labour party would be in better position.
     
  20. Frankie Carbone

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    You really think Mattarella would stop there? Look at his reasoning for it, it’s quite clear he doesn’t want either faction in parliament or involved in any government duty

    It’ll go either way as M5S had the most votes on Election Day. They are more conscious of the issues seeing that they want nothing to do with Berlusconi and won’t operate with Lega unless they remove him from their ear
     
    #2070 Frankie Carbone, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  21. Jay Jay Okocha

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    Because Corbyn is an awful leader who isn't particularly smart.

    The hard left snuck their man (and he only got on the ballot as the token hard left candidate nominated by MPs who wanted a "debate") into the Leadership through flooding the party with membership applications and taking advantage of incredibly stupid appointment rules brought in by Miliband. He is now kept in because they know they will struggle to get another one of their lot in ever again. They use social media to great advantage with naive millennial framing into as an Establishment vs Upstart story but he is toxic across sections of Britain.

    The only reason this charade has gone on is because of the shitshow that is Brexit. May herself is a lameduck PM who is the useful idiot for both sides of that party to blame when the shitshow lands.

    The real question you have to ask yourself is why the Brits do not vote for the Liberal Democrats.
     
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  22. Fran Tarkenton

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  23. (Z)

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    He already had approved a person with no business being PM. I'm sure he wanted no part of that government, but he vetoed a single minister. There is no doubting it.

    Salvini is just playing it for all its worth. New elections would be a huge boost for Lega.
     
  24. (Z)

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    #2074 (Z), May 30, 2018
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  25. Fran Tarkenton

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    well yea, you can find segments of a lot of stuff everywhere that arent representative of the whole. Not what I was asking.
     
  26. (Z)

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    I know. Which is why the whole sentence comes out to a "yes"
     
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  27. THE REAL GUBBERJK

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    wow :ohnoes::gfa::gocho::ohgosh:.
     
  28. Frankie Carbone

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    And he would veto anyone else they’d push. Trying to simplify it to just one veto when the reality is he’s doing all he can to keep the formed coalition out of power is naive and not true of what’s going on over there.

    For those that are interested, M5S and Lega (majority seats in parliament) are looking to align with Fratelli D’Italia (another Eurosceptic, anti immigration party) making things more interesting because the Eurosceptic rhetoric took a backseat post election for the 2 parties initially
     
  29. (Z)

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    What basis is there for saying he would veto anyone else they'd push when he accepted every other cabinet nomination? He specifically stated that he asked them to come back with someone different.
     
  30. Frankie Carbone

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  31. (Z)

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  32. Frankie Carbone

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    Are you purposely being disingenuous? Whoever the coalition pushes in a role that can make changes within Italy will not be accepted. The president won’t allow Italy to be out of the EU in any form so the point of allowing the Prime Minister to be elected doesn’t mean much, especially since that prime minister just resigned because of the president
     
  33. (Z)

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    No, I just think you've read 2 articles about Italian politics and don't really know what you're talking about.

    The President was willing to allow Matteo Salvini to be the interior minister of the country for goodness sake. The only thing he wasn't willing to do was allow an appointment which he felt would potentially lead to Italy leaving the single currency via stealth--a position which Paola Savona advocated in the past. He said if Italy was going to leave the Euro, then the parties needed to explicitly campaign for that--something which M5S and Lega explicitly drew back from and did not do during the election campaign.

    There is zero evidence that the president would not have allowed someone from Lega/M5S to be the finance minister. To say otherwise is to spout conspiracy theory nonsense with zero factual support.
     
  34. Frankie Carbone

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    :laugh: I have family there

    Again are you being disingenuous on purpose?

    Salvini as interior minister wouldn’t have any impact on Italy’s EU standing. Most feared the anti immigration stance should he hold that power so that doesn’t prove anything except that you’re continuing to minimize what the veto really means.

    Both parties never hid their intention on keeping Italy, or lack thereof, in the EU, regardless if their rhetoric took a back seat with elections. Fact of the matter is the PM doesn’t resign unless he knows their attempts at changing the status of being in the EU with the current president in place is futile. Any REAL change the voted in coalition wants to do is going to be shot down, case in point with Savona.
     
  35. (Z)

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    Um, yes they did.

    They completely changed their entire position on the Euro and the EU during the election. The 5SM stop calling for an illegal referendum on Euro membership. (5SM has never advocated for Italy leaving the EU). In the past, Lega has advocated leaving both the Euro and EU and completely changed that to advocating a renegotiation of EU treaties.

    And again, the president said that he would have accepted another nomination from Lega or 5SM for finance minister. Not a single person, even Salvini, has disputed that. Salvini just insisted that it had to be Savona. You're completely fabricating his position.
     
  36. Frankie Carbone

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    Want to try again?

    Article from 2014
    h ttp://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-30031810/italy-s-beppe-grillo-calls-for-referendum-on-leaving-euro


    Article from 2018
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ex...o-european-union-referendum-euro-italexit/amp

    You may want to research what the M5S movement is about and why they were ok with partnering with Lega when they turned away every other party that tried in the past. Look into Fratelli D’Italia as well. Or just chalk it all up as a conspiracy I have
     
  37. (Z)

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    It's almost like you can't read.

    The sentence before the one you bolded explicitly stated that the 5SM used to call for a referendum on the EURO but then dropped that during these elections. You do know that the EU and the Euro are not the same thing, right?
     
  38. Frankie Carbone

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    When was the election? Now look at when that last article was published. M5S never changed their stance like you’re trying to claim, the rhetoric only took a back seat during the election. If you’re going to follow Italian politics as a hobby be a little more informed before throwing out statements that don’t hold much weight to what’s going on over there

    Hopefully you’re not that dense to think by dropping out of the EU you’re at the same time going to use currency from that union as your own and vice versa. They kinda go hand and hand.
     
  39. lechnerd

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    Solid debate guys.
     
  40. (Z)

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    LOL. Yes they did.

    Oh wait, here's the leader of the party in January saying that leaving the Euro is no longer a goal of the party and that he no longer thought it was the right time to leave the Euro. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-longer-time-to-leave-the-euro-idUSKBN1EY21Z

    Oh yeah, and here's an article one month before the election, where the leader of the party said it wouldn't even contemplate the last resort option of a referendum on single currency membership. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/m5s-leader-di-maio-on-eu-referendum-says-its-not-an-option.html

    That's a complete change in policy, not rhetoric taking a backseat. Lega didn't really change its policy, but lowered its rhetoric. But claiming the 5SM didn't change is asinine.

    And your last paragraph makes 0 sense. They in the past advocated doing the reverse of that--leaving the Euro but staying in the EU, which is a form of membership which several countries currently enjoy including Denmark, Sweden, Czech Republic, and Poland.
     
  41. Frankie Carbone

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    Keeping in mind that 1/4 of their voting base claims to be left/center left, that was pure politicking to garner the votes.

    Those countries are an apples to oranges comparison, especially now. Look at what the coalition wants to do in regards to both
     
  42. (Z)

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    Oh, and look. Mattarella has given the coalition further time to try and come up with an agreeable minister to all parties. Wonder why he's doing that since he's going to veto whomever they choose.
     
  43. (Z)

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    So now you're admitting to something that a few posts earlier you denied ever happened? Good to know.
     
  44. Frankie Carbone

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    Not at all
     
  45. (Z)

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    Well, M5S and Lega government going to be sworn in tomorrow. Looks like this was nonsense it was just an objection to a single person in a single ministerial portfolio after all.
     
  46. Doc Louis

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    So France is a lot like America with a racist bitch in charge. Got it.
     
  47. Frankie Carbone

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    A fairly big position but the pressure that was being put on him by both parties surely got his attention
     
  48. steamengine

    steamengine I don’t want to press one for English!
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  49. THE REAL GUBBERJK

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    I agree with taffy.