Campers/backpackers

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by racer, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. Paddy Murphy

    Paddy Murphy Well-Known Member
    Atlanta BravesCarolina PanthersWofford TerriersUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    I did 8 days in GTNP and Yellowstone last summer AMA. Buy some water proof or resistant trail runners as your all purpose shoe. A pair of sandals or Tevas for hanging out at camp.
     
    Room 15 and spagett like this.
  2. spagett

    spagett Got ya, spooked ya
    Donor

    Aren't you fucked if you get water inside the shoe though? I guess I don't understand the point of a waterproof low-cut shoe
     
  3. BayouMafia

    BayouMafia slowly learning that life is ok
    Staff Donor
    FulhamLSU TigersNew Orleans SaintsTexas Rangers

    Get canyoning shoes. I got the Merrell Maipo 2’s for waterfall rappelling and the water runs right out. Sure your socks get wet but you can change those or get some quick dry ones. I’ve done hikes as long as 9-10 miles in mine

    The Maipo’s are lightweight, incredibly comfortable, and have great traction in wet and dry conditions. Pro tip: replace the laces with Lock Laces and they are even more comfortable
     
    spagett likes this.
  4. BP

    BP Bout to Regulate.
    Donor
    Atlanta BravesGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Falcons

    Team Crocs for hanging out at camp.
     
  5. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    Chacos are good. Took me a while to get used to them, but I like them very much now. Personally I like the no toe loop version. I’ve worn mine desert hiking, rock scrambling, camping, river, kayaking, all kinds of stuff.

     
    BamaNug and Imurhuckleberry like this.
  6. Imurhuckleberry

    Imurhuckleberry Avid spectator of windmill warriors
    Donor
    Florida GatorsSan Francisco GiantsGolden State WarriorsSan Francisco 49'ers

    I get the toe loop but then pull it flat. It's great to have it those times when you really need it.
     
  7. Lefthook

    Lefthook token Oregon State fan
    Donor

    Idk if you're talking about where you have to walk in a stream ankle deep or whether you just need something splash-proof but in the rainy wet PNW I swear by these for getting wet and not ruining my day:

    https://www.salomon.com/en-us/shop/product/speedcross-5-gtx.html#color=20186
     
    Paddy Murphy likes this.
  8. Fargin' Icehole

    Fargin' Icehole 50% soulless
    Donor
    Atlanta HawksBayern MunichAtlanta FalconsGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Braves

    I have these and love them. I wouldn't use them for canyoning though. Chacos/Teva/Xero/etc hiking sandal is what I'd go with. I keep a pair of Xeros hanging on my bag for water crossings.
     
  9. Paddy Murphy

    Paddy Murphy Well-Known Member
    Atlanta BravesCarolina PanthersWofford TerriersUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    I read your post as hiking / exploring - not specific water activities like rafting or something. If you know you are going to be doing stuff where you will be in like knee deep water or something, then yes, trail runners are not your best answer, but for general exploring, I think you need to focus most on the best combination of weight and support and typically trail runners are the answer.

    buy hiking socks and good athletic underwear / compression shorts. You’re only as happy as your feet and your undercarriage.

    a couple of hikes I did were Delta Lake in GTNP and Osprey Falls in Yellowstone. Both were spectacular. As I’m sure most hikes are. I use the AllTrails app to research hikes and track the route.

    We rented an RV and drove that puppy to a new stop every night. Not sure what your plans are for “accommodations” but I was skeptical about the RV and it turned out to be fantastic. If you do go the car / RV route know that you can (and have to) reserve spots a year in advance, and some camp sites are first come first serve so you better be pulling in at 7 am when other people are leaving.
     
    spagett likes this.
  10. spagett

    spagett Got ya, spooked ya
    Donor

    Thanks.

    Trail runners sound like the way to go for hiking

    Is there some secret underwear I dont know about for hiking?
     
  11. Paddy Murphy

    Paddy Murphy Well-Known Member
    Atlanta BravesCarolina PanthersWofford TerriersUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    i swear by exofficio. I wear them every day, but they are designed for hiking. They do the job. I’m sure there are other (less expensive) options that are just fine. Just don’t wear old navy boxers.

    I’m wearing Dang Tough ankle high hiking socks right now that I got off Amazon and they did well on my trip.
     
    wes tegg, Lefthook and spagett like this.
  12. Lefthook

    Lefthook token Oregon State fan
    Donor

    the whole "cotton kills" thing is a bit overdone but I started wearing merino wool socks shirts and underwear for hiking and then realized I prefer it for the rest of life too. Not the end of the world but it is more comfortable iyam
     
    racer and spagett like this.
  13. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    All merino everythang
     
    Lefthook likes this.
  14. Weedlord420

    Weedlord420 Well-Known Member
    TMB OG
    Florida State SeminolesWashington NationalsWashington CapitalsOlympics

    I drape live sheeps over my back as my edc clothes
     
    wes tegg, THF, TheFreak55 and 2 others like this.
  15. Arliden

    Arliden Well-Known Member

    I don't know what type of shape your in/ if you like hiking but I did this hike with my lady last year and it was pretty cool. We did it up and back and then crushed beers and wings at Snake River brewery, great day.

    https://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/wyoming/table-mountain

    Trailhead is right outside of Driggs as well, definitely a challenging hike but you are rewarded with great views and a fun hike.

     
    spagett likes this.
  16. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksMississippi Rebels

  17. BP

    BP Bout to Regulate.
    Donor
    Atlanta BravesGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Falcons

    wes tegg likes this.
  18. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    My goal is to some day do JMT. I finally got serious about weight loss. Now that I’m getting somewhere I need to start thinking about what it’s going to take to work up to that. I feel like I’ve wasted 5 years by not getting into shape.
     
    BamaNug likes this.
  19. Paddy Murphy

    Paddy Murphy Well-Known Member
    Atlanta BravesCarolina PanthersWofford TerriersUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    JMT is a a big goal of mine. I work with a guy did it moving really fast in 17 days. Took two full weeks off work, that’s not a luxury I have so not sure when I’d be able to do it unless between jobs (not likely any time soon) or semi/full retirement.

    I think you have to be in serious trail worn shape to enjoy it. It’s a shot ton of mileage with a shit ton of weight.
     
    BamaNug, wes tegg and racer like this.
  20. UrsaGrande

    UrsaGrande wait, what?
    Donor

    I did the JMT in 17 days as well. Lots of hikes with decent climbs were done on weekends for a few months leading up to it.
     
    BamaNug, racer and wes tegg like this.
  21. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    I’ve been watching JMT videos and doing research all week. I am hyped. Need to start planning my next year worth of hikes with a target of July or August ‘21.

    Is it really as hard as they say to get a permit out of happy isles?
     
    Buenos Nachos and BamaNug like this.
  22. UrsaGrande

    UrsaGrande wait, what?
    Donor

    There's a lot of demand for it. Walk ups out of Tuolumne Meadows aren't nearly as hard if you can be a little flexible.
     
    racer likes this.
  23. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    What are everyone's thoughts on hiking/camping during the outbreak? On one hand, it seems to be fairly logical if you can leave your house, go straight to your car, and then out into the mountains. I have enough gear and dehydrated food to where I wouldn't have to buy anything. Hell, it'd be less human interaction than getting take out food.

    In a group chat with by buddies about it. They went backcountry skiing last Sunday, the 2 of them never came across another soul. They're trying to organize some other events -- not a big group, but 3-4-5 of us hiking/camping.

    I was thinking about trying to get in the mountains this weekend -- just a day hike to get outside. Am I way off-base here?
     
    racer, Fargin' Icehole and BayouMafia like this.
  24. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    Go. Just watch out. I’ve seen a few parks and recreation areas that had to close down because hundreds showed up to get away.
     
    #1274 racer, Mar 17, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
    BamaNug likes this.
  25. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    Inyo County posted to stay the fuck away from their towns
     
  26. BP

    BP Bout to Regulate.
    Donor
    Atlanta BravesGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Falcons

    Still planning on our backpacking trip in Saguaro this weekend. Think its a good idea in a small group or solo.
     
    racer and BamaNug like this.
  27. Room 15

    Room 15 Mi equipo esta Los Tigres
    Donor
    Auburn TigersAtlanta BravesAtlanta FalconsAtlanta UnitedUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    Yea I’m gonna try to go to some less popular spots around Asheville. I’m sure everyone is thinking the same thing around here.
     
    racer and BamaNug like this.
  28. BP

    BP Bout to Regulate.
    Donor
    Atlanta BravesGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Falcons

    To build on that a few people are bailing on thru hikes of the AZ Trail due to uncertainty of town stores being open
     
    racer likes this.
  29. Fargin' Icehole

    Fargin' Icehole 50% soulless
    Donor
    Atlanta HawksBayern MunichAtlanta FalconsGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Braves

    I'd go for sure if I didn't have responsibilities
     
    BamaNug and racer like this.
  30. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    If this thing progresses into August like some are reporting, could be doing even more hiking and camping than previously planned. Guess that would be the best of a bad situation?
     
  31. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    The Pandemic Comes to Bishop: A Small Climbing Community Struggles Beneath the Weight of COVID-19

    Dave McAllister on March 17, 2020

    [​IMG]
    Back in 2002 or 2003, when Colorado lingered in the apex of the West Nile Virus epidemic, I decided to head up to the Poudre Canyon, outside of Fort Collins, for a day of bouldering. July was boiling the state dry and I was hunting for cooler temps and fewer crowds, even though I’d known Fort Collins was a vector for the disease. What did I have to worry about? I was a healthy twenty-something. Most people infected didn’t demonstrate symptoms and it passed like a stranger on a crowded sidewalk.
    My friend and I quit bouldering after he stopped counting mosquito bites on my back at 50, shaking his head and packing up his pad. For the next three or four days I went to work. I sold crash pads and fit people for climbing shoes. I went to the bar. I hung out with roommates and cooked with them in the kitchen. And then I started feeling pretty bad. One hospital visit later and a headache/body ache for the ages, I tucked into bed for the next 10 days with West Nile fever.

    Now, imagine if I’d been contagious? How many people would I have infected during those three or four days? Imagine if I’d been asymptomatic but still transmogrified into some wretched and flailing vector to everyone I touched? How many people would my impertinent, selfish decision have harmed? That would have been pretty awful.

    This is the reality we exist in today, struggling to manage and mitigate the novel coronavirus. We’re all potential vectors, at least partly due to the fumbling ineptitude of our governmental response. But I’m not here to point fingers at the government. That doesn’t do any good anymore. I’m here to point my finger at you. At me. At the entire climbing community.

    *

    Bishop, California hosts some of the finest bouldering in the world, along with a friendly community dependent on visiting climbers. With COVID-19 sweeping into every nook of our nation, however, the town is struggling to limit visiting climbers; so far, unsuccessfully, putting the local population at risk for infection, a bleak prospect for a tiny community hours from the nearest metropolis.

    “The current scene feels like people are on winter or spring break,” said Tammy Wilson, a local climber, skier, restaurant worker, and Volunteer Coordinator for the Flash Foxy Women’s Climbing Festival. “Lots of cars in the parking lots, more people at the boulders than Thanksgiving week. Massive crowds of people camping and in coffee shops and grocery stores.”

    Despite mass outreach and the desperate warnings from physicians and health care workers worldwide, climbers from around the country have descended upon Bishop as though a global pandemic were some sort of hall pass from responsibility and magnanimity. These climbers, many of whom laud social services and universal health care and employ progressive social media messaging, have willed themselves to rise above distress and summarily jettisoned the very meaning of community in favor of sending some random V8 on volcanic tuft.

    Paula Flakser, a Bishop local and longtime climber/advocate, recently headed out for a run on public lands. “I saw at least 30 vans camped out,” she said, noting she usually sees no more than five on busy weekends along her route. “I, personally, am livid seeing people use this as an opportunity to take a climbing vacation ‘away from it all.’ You are not away from it all. You are just going to a different type of community.”

    While every gym in America took down their shingle and schools shuttered to keep their neighbors safe, a disappointing throng of climbers used the public health crisis to plan a road trip. Bishop locals pointed to around 300 cars “parked” on Chalk Bluff Road, at the mouth of the Happy Boulders, last weekend. This is a staggering number on the best of days. During a pandemic, where COVID-19 remains on rock surfaces for hours (at least) and travels through the air via cough and sneeze, it’s patently dangerous.

    “The traveling climbing community just doesn’t seem to be taking this seriously,” said Trevor Markel, a former Evolv athlete and Bishop local. “Today we had a shitty weather day and the parking lot at Black Sheep [the local coffee hang] was packed with vans. There are traveling climbers everywhere.”

    *

    If you’ve spent six minutes in front of a television over the last month, I don’t need to remind you what every virologist and epidemiologist, every healthcare expert and advocate, every doctor and nurse has been pleading. Coronavirus is highly contagious. Not only can it cause a debilitating sickness, but it’s potentially lethal for large swaths of society, both the wizened and those with concurrent health issues. It has the potential to obliterate the very notion of normalcy, as witnessed in Italy and Spain.

    Beyond that, an avalanche of newly infected people holds the potential to radically cripple our healthcare infrastructure, which is acutely evident in tiny townships like Bishop. Stephen Muchovej, a local climber and elected member of the City Council, warns against the strain potentially placed on Inyo County. “As great as our local hospital is, it is small, with roughly two-dozen beds in total, four in the ICU. Even a few cases of COVID will place an enormous strain on our awesome healthcare workers.” He continues, “30 percent of our community is over the age of 60. Recent data show that upwards of 15 percent of people infected will require some form of hospitalization, that 5 percent will require a respirator, and that the typical hospital stay is of 14 days. When we fold that into the capacity of our hospital, you can see that if we have roughly 150 cases of the disease in our area in a two-week period, it will severely strain the care our hospital will be able to provide.”

    Wilson, echoing everyone I spoke with, added, “Resources are limited. There are zero specialists in the area. We all deal with risk mitigation as climbers, so mitigate risk and please don’t come up here. Stay closer to somewhere that has a more modern ICU.”

    And yet, the boulders are packed. Flash Foxy cancelled their popular Women’s Climbing Festival, while the Bishop Climber’s Coalition sent out warnings (though not nearly forceful enough). And yet, not a seat remains at Black Sheep, still open as of their most recent Facebook post, March 14th.

    “People from many different places are congregating and mashing their filthy hands onto the same holds that someone just mashed theirs on 30 seconds previously,” said Flakser. “Then those people are flooding coffee shops and restaurants on days like today when the weather is bad. 300 cars at the Happies? Let’s say that’s 600 people in a small canyon. You do the math.”

    *

    When the Happies grow crowded, of course, many other areas await the influx. “There was a line of cars waiting to get in to the Buttermilks on Saturday and over 40 people crowding the Ice Caves [a small corridor in the Sad Boulders],” said Wilson. “Mammoth Mountain [just north of Bishop] closed its lifts on Saturday and in return an influx of people bombarded the tiny restaurant I work at. The people were pissed off, rude, entitled, and treated everyone with disrespect.”

    The locals are frustrated, taking to social media to warn potential visitors away. Markel is despondent. “A lot of locals are pissed at the influx of climbers. People have been trying to instigate some sort of action to address the issue of large groups still congregating. Its shit weather and we have a ton of travelers in town. What does that mean? Climbers are in close quarters to share shelter and anywhere that is still open is flooded. It fucking sucks driving around town seeing a complete disregard for the public health emergency we are experiencing just because people would rather go bouldering. I’m really disappointed in the climbing community right now.”

    Flakser frames her concern with a bit of patriotic flare. “America was built on a spirit of individualism and free will, and we’ve put it aside before and we can do it again, but this time we have WiFi. Please go home and hunker down. It’s two to four weeks; we can handle that. Let this little, wild community thrive and have a fighting chance. If you love it here so much then go home. It’s just for a little while.”

    Muchovej, the city councilor, drives home the point. “We know this is a hard reality for someone planning to come here for their spring break vacation. But for those of you who have decided to heed the advice from health experts and have postponed your travel plans, we want to thank you for considering visiting us in the first place, and further thank you for making a decision that is right for our community’s health, and hope to see you soon when we have all gotten through this.”



    A sincere offering of gratitude goes out to Tammy Wilson, Paula Flakser, Lana Morris, Stephen Muchovej, Trevor Markel, Dennis Lim, and Luke Kinney, who made this story possible.
     
  32. THEBLUERAIDER

    THEBLUERAIDER Well-Known Member
    Donor
    St. Louis CardinalsTennessee TitansNashville PredatorsMiddle Tennessee State Blue Raiders

  33. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksMississippi Rebels

    THEBLUERAIDER likes this.
  34. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    Had a freaking great weekend turning off my phone/computer and spending a majority of it outside.

    Saturday hiked through Tiger Mountain Forest, where Ted Bundy buried a bunch of his victims. Cool area. Not much of a hike as it was just a 7 mile walk through the woods.
    [​IMG]
    Today we did Granite Mountain, 45 minutes east of Seattle. We didn't get all the way to the top, snow was getting too deep and getting a little sketchy, but we did 3,700 feet of vert/7 miles round trip through a ton of snow. It was a burner, freaking awesome. Highest elevation was still just 5,500 feet
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  35. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    I built a 7” step box out of a cedar table I made a few years back. A few days per week I’m doing single leg step-ups. One foot flat on the box, the other heel-flat on the floor. Extend, toe tap the off foot on the top of the box, back heel flat, repeat.
    Started with 150 each leg, and each workout I’m knocking out at least 10 more per leg. Ultimate goal of 860 per leg, which is 1,000 vertical feet in about 8/10 of a mile with my stride length.
    I have 150-860 in increments of 10 on a piece of paper taped to the wall and cross out each one hit after each workout. My rule is never do less than yesterday. Feels good to cross them off, especially 3-4 at a time. I’m about 2 weeks in and marked off 300 today. Going to start adding the pack soon. Little by little I’m getting where I’d like to be.
    /rant.
     
  36. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    Training for anything specifically, or just staying in shape?
     
  37. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    Ultimately would like to tackle JMT in 1-2 years. Other than that just want to be in good shape in general. Lots of world to see in places you can’t drive.
     
    Room 15, BamaNug and BayouMafia like this.
  38. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    So last weekend a bunch of cars that were parked at WA trailheads got towed. Pretty much all trailheads are closed in WA, probably until at least May 4. Warnings online and at the parking lots. Plan this weekend was to go way off the beaten path and do a big hike to prevent from seeing people, but staying home is probably for the best.
     
    Doc Louis and racer like this.
  39. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    At this point I’d stay put. The risk factor is probably super low, but is it even worth it right now?
     
    BamaNug likes this.
  40. BP

    BP Bout to Regulate.
    Donor
    Atlanta BravesGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Falcons

    Gotta think the risk of getting it hiking, camping or backpacking is way less than going to any type of store.
     
    Fargin' Icehole, racer and BamaNug like this.
  41. racer

    racer Better call Saul!
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesKansas City ChiefsLas Vegas Golden KnightsWatfordSneakersOlympicsTravel

    Agreed. I’m looking at it as your choices are interact with nobody or risk it. Seems prudent to stay put right now.

    This is assuming shopping behavior is the same either way because you still need the food you need.
     
  42. Fargin' Icehole

    Fargin' Icehole 50% soulless
    Donor
    Atlanta HawksBayern MunichAtlanta FalconsGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Braves

    My buddy lives in Twisp and from his backdoor he can access everything from Chelan to Glacier Peak. Beautiful and remote shit back there. He goes off trail a lot anyway so he's not gonna come across anyone. I'm very jealous.
     
    Imurhuckleberry, BamaNug and racer like this.
  43. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    I've driven through Twisp. Beautiful.
     
  44. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

  45. BamaNug

    BamaNug Quentin Quarantino
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    Rainier looks like the Eye of Sauron
     
    xec likes this.
  46. spagett

    spagett Got ya, spooked ya
    Donor

    Yellowstone is likely going to be closed when I make my trip out there. That's a significant bummer. Don't know if I'll ever make it out there again.

    Still going to be in that area. Would really appreciate sight-seeing tips that don't involve teton/yellowstone access
     
    xec likes this.
  47. BP

    BP Bout to Regulate.
    Donor
    Atlanta BravesGeorgia BulldogsAtlanta Falcons

    Glacier NP just cancelled all backpacking reservations for 2020 due to ranger staffing.
     
    Oranjello, xec and racer like this.
  48. xec

    xec Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Florida State SeminolesUtah UtesReal Salt LakeLas Vegas Golden KnightsPorto

    So all the areas outside the Park are similar. Headwaters of The Missouri was a nice visit. Island Park and Mesa Falls (Idaho) are great. All of the West Yellowstone area. Bozeman, MT is surprisingly nice. Check out Big Sky resort.

    Other resources:
    https://www.yellowstonepark.com/road-trips/road-trip-stops/visit-idaho
     
  49. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Green Bay PackersGrateful DeadMississippi Rebels

    That... that seems bad? Unexpected?
     
  50. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Green Bay PackersGrateful DeadMississippi Rebels

    Internet has several thoughts as to why. From lack of personnel to process applications (not a lack of rangers), to the inability to house seasonal workers/rangers due to social distancing (e.g., dorm style housing will be unable to accommodate as many people).
     
    xec likes this.