*Chelsea-*-- We’re Champions of Europe, You'll Never Sing That

Discussion in 'Soccer Board' started by Arrec Bardwin, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. Popovio

    Popovio The poster formerly known as "MouseCop"
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    Also, we didn't always look like soulless husks when we did lose.
     
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  2. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    For the life of me, I don’t understand why Frank doesn’t just “do last season” but with Mendy and Chilwell. Open it up, balls to the wall attacking.
     
  3. Popovio

    Popovio The poster formerly known as "MouseCop"
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    If we actually had a double pivot that worked, we could stick Mount or Havertz behind the striker in the 10. I'm tired of us shifting it out to the wings, getting inevitably stymied, crossing to no one and hoping for the best. Need some god damn interplay through the middle for once.
     
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  4. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    maybe Frank is accidentally looking at possession stats instead of the goal total
     
  5. aisle seven

    aisle seven Well-Known Member
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    WAIT, WE CAN PLAY DIRECTLY?!?!?
     
  6. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Rudiger been awful. Reece had to cover his guy with rudiger in no mans land and Reece’s guy almost scores
     
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  7. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    where is the pride? like show something
     
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  8. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    Holy christ that was some of the worst defending I've ever seen
     
  9. aisle seven

    aisle seven Well-Known Member
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    Mount and that’s it. Everyone else seemingly hates Frank if you watch them play. Jose Part Two, Part Two.
     
  10. JGator1

    JGator1 I'm the Michael Jordan of the industry
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    we have to work hard to get anything resembling a look and one easy counter gets them a great opportunity
     
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  11. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    I figured he would have plenty of leeway and hopefully more than any previous manager, but this kind of feels like it has to be the end if not close to it if the scoreline holds?
     
  12. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Chilwell could have played long to CHO on the opposite side of the pitch and played back to Thiago Silva instead. They should call that backward pass a chelsea. It’s our speciality. Leicester are really unlucky that this is 2-0. Should be 4-0. Even 3-0 would be a bit unlucky.
     
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  13. Gallant Knight

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    so is chilwell the only good signing chelsea made despite spending a quarter billi?
     
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  14. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    Not just the scoreline but, as plenty of others have pointed out in here, the listlessness.
     
  15. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    Ziyech has been our best offensive creator. For Werner and Havertz it's tough to tell. Werner looks good on the rare occasions when he's allowed to play to his strengths. Havertz has been bad but I do feel like our midfield has been one of the worst managed positions by Frank. It's really not at all clear what our midfielders are supposed to be doing.
     
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  16. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Werner and havertz are going to look awesome under one of the next 2 managers. We have no tactics at all. Pub teams have more of a game plan than we do. How do you wait 20 minutes to make a sub or make any changes in anything? Frank keeps having his worst game each week. AVB was better than this.
     
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  17. Gallant Knight

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    it is embarrassing that villa lost to this shit chelsea team
     
  18. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    Man I hope you’re right but I have no idea how you guys think Havertz is going to come good. He has been an absolute disaster at every position on the pitch.

    Werner can’t finish but he started OK and still get into decent.
     
  19. JGator1

    JGator1 I'm the Michael Jordan of the industry
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    With the club's recent history and especially with a horrible manager there's no reason to believe we're anywhere close to getting the best out of anyone
     
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  20. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    he has yet to be used properly. Would salah be elite if klopp plays him as a LB? Frank played havertz in 4 different positions in his first 4 games. He jammed havertz and Werner into so many games out of position that they have no confidence. They don’t trust lampard.

    and again Tammy making a run and Reece plays it backwards instead of making the pass. This team plays like they will get benched if their pass % stats aren’t high enough.
     
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  21. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    I'm not expecting him to become the world beater he was touted as, given what he's showed so far. I'm just saying this disaster so far isn't nearly enough to write off a player who previously had so much promise. I think Havertz has good instincts and would benefit from a quicker pace of play as well.
     
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  22. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Same situation as Reece was in and Leicester played the pass to vardy. Almost a goal. This team needs real coaching in the worst way. Roman needs to just do it so we can see what we have and build toward with the next guy.
     
  23. Gallant Knight

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    time for some armpit lines!
     
  24. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Werner can’t catch a break
     
  25. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    With luton in the FA Cup Sunday and Wolves not until next Wednesday, tomorrow seems like a decent chance that we move on from frank and give the caretaker a week.
     
  26. aisle seven

    aisle seven Well-Known Member
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    Seems bad? :awshucks:
     
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  27. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    I can’t imagine nagelsmann would come before the summer so they either let frank finish the year or bring in an interim guy to hopefully clip 4th place before he takes over in the summer.
     
  28. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    Blau ist die Farbe
     
  29. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    This makes sense to me. Tuchel being floated by tuchel people. Chelsea have shown patience in getting the manager they want over the manager right now using caretakers or letting lameduck managers finish seasons. That would be my bet.
     
  30. SugarShaun

    SugarShaun A man of many hobbies
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    Wow, the manager at the top of everyone’s list is the favored guy, who could’ve seen that.

    Next up, Upamecano favored CB
     
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  31. Corky Bucek

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    Wrong thread
     
    #18982 Corky Bucek, Jan 20, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  32. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    Nagelsmann would certainly be an upgrade but I'm not sold on the other two (particularly Allegri). Sucks that Poch is off the market.
     
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  33. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    man this was a pretty brutal read from the Athletic:

    Top heavy and lacking belief – where Chelsea are going wrong under Lampard

    Top heavy and lacking belief – where Chelsea are going wrong under Lampard

    [​IMG]
    By Liam Twomey Jan 20, 2021[​IMG] 93 [​IMG]
    Chelsea’s fifth defeat in eight Premier League matches was one of the most emphatic. The final score at the King Power Stadium was 2-0, but Leicester City were a class above their more expensively-assembled visitors on Tuesday night in terms of organisation and application. Brendan Rodgers won the coaching battle to leave Frank Lampard’s chances of seeing out his second full season in charge looking bleaker than ever.

    Lampard picked a startlingly attack-minded team, shifting to 4-2-3-1 to give Kai Havertz an opportunity to rebuild some confidence as a No 10 and making Mason Mount and Mateo Kovacic, two natural No 8s, his deepest midfielders. That set-up, coupled with the importance of overlapping full-backs Ben Chilwell and Reece James in Chelsea’s attacking approach this season, meant they risked exposing centre-backs Thiago Silva and Antonio Rudiger against one of the best counter-attacking teams in the Premier League led by Jamie Vardy, one of the deadliest transition-play goalscorers of the modern era.

    That risk became reality on numerous occasions, but Chelsea’s problems at the King Power were more wide-ranging.

    Set-piece woes

    Just as Sheffield United had done through David McGoldrick at Stamford Bridge in November, Leicester caught out Lampard’s team in the opening minutes with short, quickly-taken set-pieces. “We knew they switch off sometimes,” was the damning, matter-of-fact explanation from James Maddison during his post-match interview.

    This was the tactical equivalent of a warning shot at a sixth-minute free kick: Maddison exploiting a lot more than 10 yards of space to lay the ball off to Youri Tielemans, who finds Harvey Barnes in a crossing position on the left:

    [​IMG]

    Tammy Abraham shepherds the resulting delivery out for a corner, but the lesson is not learnt. Marc Albrighton takes it short to Maddison and quickly generates a two-vs-one situation with Christian Pulisic, giving Albrighton plenty of space to run into in the penalty area while he assesses his crossing options:

    [​IMG]

    He cuts it back to the edge of the box, where numerous opponents have found space from corners against Chelsea since Lampard’s most recent overhaul of the team’s set-piece defending.

    Wilfred Ndidi has all the time in the world to take his shot. He is a little lucky to find the inside of the post with his supposedly weaker left foot, but any Premier League footballer is capable of scoring from that position when under no pressure.

    Again, look at the space he has:

    [​IMG]

    Chelsea’s lapses in concentration have frequently forced them to chase games in recent weeks, and Leicester are particularly good at turning that desperation into further pain. But there were other, more fundamental issues.

    Ball progression

    This has been a big problem for Chelsea during their winter slump, and Leicester set out their tactical stall early to prevent Kovacic and Mount from receiving the ball with space to turn. Rodgers instructed Barnes, Maddison and Albrighton, the creative line in his own 4-2-3-1, to move right up alongside Vardy and block any easy passes out of defence. Behind them, Ndidi and Tielemans also pushed up to ensure there were no huge spaces between their lines:

    [​IMG]

    Leicester made it clear from the opening minutes that they were very happy to let Silva and, in particular, Rudiger have the ball, challenging them to pick out aerial passes either to James and Chilwell or further forward to Chelsea’s attackers.

    This particular passage of play in the fourth minute ends with Rudiger punting the ball hopefully upfield, but it is overhit and Abraham is offside in any case:

    [​IMG]

    Rodgers effectively set up his team to become a 4-2-4 out of possession, in order to force Silva and Rudiger to be Chelsea’s main playmakers. Both completed at least 90 passes, comfortably more than any other player on the pitch (Kovacic was next with 77), but ended up with little to show for all their time on the ball. That was partly because Lampard’s team were often in a 4-2-4 themselves in possession, with Havertz pushing right up onto Leicester’s defensive line alongside Pulisic, Abraham and Callum Hudson-Odoi.

    When you factor in how wide and high Chilwell and James typically position themselves under Lampard, Chelsea’s team shape at times became ludicrously top-heavy.

    In this image, with Kovacic dropping deep to collect the ball away from Leicester pressure, Mount has become the team’s entire midfield:

    [​IMG]

    Kovacic eventually lays the ball back and Havertz peels away from Leicester’s defence into a pocket of space. Silva sees him and plays the pass but it is off-target; Havertz cannot control it, loses possession and then commits a foul that earns him a booking.

    [​IMG]

    Silva completed 90 of his 92 attempted passes. It was Rudiger who more often tried to go long, looking to switch play to the flanks or set Lampard’s attackers running in behind the defence. This was a big tactical win for Rodgers. While he can occasionally pull off those longer distance balls, Rudiger is nowhere near the class of David Luiz, who was arguably the best long-range passing centre-back in the world in his Chelsea prime.

    The results were predictably erratic, and rarely threatening.

    Attackers not defending

    Lampard’s decision to shift to 4-2-3-1 meant the defensive effort of his attackers — in terms of pressing effectively from the front and tracking back to stay with opposition runners — would be vital. Rodgers based part of his attacking strategy on the assumption that Chelsea’s forward players would not consistently do this dirty work, and he was proven right.

    Here, the ball gets played in to the feet of Albrighton just inside the Chelsea half. Chilwell has followed him upfield and Mount has come across to apply additional pressure, limiting his options. Pulisic, however, hesitates rather than immediately reacting when Timothy Castagne takes off on a forward run, giving Albrighton the passing angle he needs:

    [​IMG]

    Pulisic sprints back and eventually forces Castagne to check his run just outside the penalty area. But the Belgian is still able to find Maddison, who escapes the attentions of Kovacic for long enough to crash a shot off the bar. If he instead gets it on target and forces a parry from Edouard Mendy, neither Pulisic or Chilwell is in a position to stop Castagne or Tielemans tapping in a rebound. Chelsea are close to being outnumbered in their own box:

    [​IMG]

    Early in the second half, Hudson-Odoi is equally culpable, not tracking James Justin into the Chelsea box despite the fact he is in position to see James occupied with Vardy in front of goal and Maddison also unmarked in a shooting position as Castagne crosses:

    [​IMG]

    The result is a free header at the back post, which Justin should score from:

    [​IMG]

    Leicester’s full-backs played a significant role in some of their best attacks, in part because Chelsea’s forwards allowed them to.

    Attacking breakdowns

    Chelsea put together one or two nice attacking combinations but their successes were few and far between. More often, their passages of play degenerated into timid sideways and backwards passes. Even when they did not, the manner in which things went wrong further up the pitch highlighted issues with both individuals and Lampard’s attacking structure — or the lack of one.

    On this occasion, Chilwell manages to win the ball in the Leicester half and as it comes to the feet of Mount, Havertz has taken up a great position, with Hudson-Odoi preparing to run in behind the defence:

    [​IMG]

    Havertz receives the ball from Mount and turns. He has a clear pass to play between Leicester defenders for Hudson-Odoi, who has Justin scrambling after him.

    In this frame, it even looks like he is shaping his body to do so:

    [​IMG]

    Instead, bafflingly, Havertz decides to turn down the pass and run away from goal, towards the right touchline. Eventually, under pressure, he tries to force James into an overlap which is not on and Leicester win the ball back:

    [​IMG]

    Havertz’s lack of belief to attempt a pass he would not have thought twice about playing last season for Bayer Leverkusen was crippling for Chelsea against a team as confident and decisive as Leicester, but an even bigger issue was the latest evidence that Lampard is no nearer to building a coherent attacking structure for his team.

    In Tuesday night’s most egregious example, Chilwell, Pulisic and Hudson-Odoi all drift towards the same pocket of space by the left touchline, bringing their markers with them:

    [​IMG]

    Chilwell offloads the ball to Pulisic, who is quickly smothered by defenders and loses it. Albrighton plays a quick ball over the top of Chelsea’s exposed defence and, within seconds, Vardy is bearing down on goalkeeper Mendy:

    [​IMG]

    Nothing on a football pitch happens in a vacuum and, against Leicester, Chelsea’s worst attacking moments directly led to some of their worst defensive ones.

    Transition (non) defending

    Chelsea’s expansive set-up in possession, coupled with Leicester’s success in forcing Rudiger and Silva to play riskier passes out of defence, allowed Rodgers to exploit another problem Lampard has been unable to definitively solve during his 18 months in charge: how to prevent his team disintegrating while scrambling to contain counter-attacks.

    The injured N’Golo Kante was always going to be a massive miss against his previous club, but even one of the world’s best midfield destroyers has struggled to command the sea of space that Chelsea have often afforded their opponents on the break. Without him, there was no safety net to prevent things from turning ugly quickly.

    Here, as Hudson-Odoi is tackled by Justin, Chelsea are not particularly exposed. Abraham, Havertz and Pulisic are all in the Leicester box but James, Kovacic, Mount and Chilwell are all behind the play in reasonable positions to slow or stop a counter:

    [​IMG]

    Within a few seconds, though, everything changes. James allows Justin to cut infield too easily and Kovacic is drawn towards the ball, creating an easy angle for a pass that could set Barnes or Maddison running at the centre-backs:

    [​IMG]

    The ball goes to Maddison, who returns it to Justin; on this occasion, Silva puts himself in the right position to head away the cross from the left before it can reach Vardy:

    [​IMG]

    Leicester’s second goal, scored by Maddison just before half-time, comes from a bit of a broken play.

    Kasper Schmeichel’s long goal kick drops to Albrighton, who shapes to play a first-time ball over the top. Rudiger and James are reasonably positioned to track Vardy and Maddison:

    [​IMG]

    But as soon as Albrighton plays his pass, things start to go wrong.

    A jogging James is left for dead by Maddison, while Rudiger is too preoccupied with battling Vardy to deal with the dropping ball. The result is a damningly easy chance for Maddison:

    [​IMG]

    James has had several similar defensive lapses this season, though it must be noted he is managing a knee injury and is probably not operating at 100 per cent. Leicester made the most of that again in the second half.

    As Maddison plays a low diagonal pass in to the feet of Vardy on the counter, Tielemans is level with Chelsea’s right-back:

    [​IMG]

    But that is not the case a few seconds later. Tielemans has sprinted well ahead of James to give Vardy a clear forward passing option, and forces Mendy into a save with his feet:

    [​IMG]

    Chelsea never looked like containing Leicester’s transition threat, and were lucky to only concede twice.

    It did not quite match Jose Mourinho’s infamous “my work was betrayed” comment after a 2-1 away defeat by Leicester in December 2015 that sealed his second Chelsea sacking, but Lampard’s insistence that his team had not done “the basics” gave off a similar air of frustration and helplessness. He may not have given up on trying to fix the problems that have directly led to this startling winter decline, but he is not talking like a man who knows how to do so.

    Chelsea have lost the free-flowing confidence and physical intensity in attack that underpinned their 17-match unbeaten run across all competitions up to mid-December and, with them, the old defensive issues that have plagued the Lampard era have returned. Now, nothing is working, no one — with the relentless exception of Mount — is playing well and every new disappointment pushes the club further away from the top-four finish that was considered a minimum requirement this season.

    This now has the look of a broken team, a miserable squad and a terminal decline.

    As one of the glorious pillars of the Roman Abramovich era, Lampard knows better than most how stories like this one end at Chelsea.
     
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  34. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    was just coming to post this so thanks for limiting my copy and paste work this morning. Brutal but spot on. I’ve been calling for chance and we did change 433 to 4231 but why wait until Leicester to use a more attacking formation? Why play 433 against Fulham with a less attacking RB in azpi and then 4231 with Reece? Why play ziyech, who playing well with Reece, against Fulham with azpi but CHO with Reece? CHO has shown more willingness to provide width. Ziyech pairs better with Reece but more importantly, I think CHO is needed with azpi. Rudiger over Zouma makes no sense to me but that isn’t a tactical decision. I’m less annoyed by that bad move then I am the others.

    try 3 at the back of 442 diamond like I’ve been begging for a month. If you want to try a 4231 with kante hurt, do it against a bottom tier opponent. Don’t use that against Leicester.

    one positive was that we got a few nice saves from Mendy. He’s far from a brick wall right now but he’s allowed in a few soft goals recently. Nice to see him make a few saves. Hopefully that continues.
     
  35. allothersnsused

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    An hour from Tifo behind the scenes at Chelsea. Enjoy.

    Edit: Didn't realize this was a month old. Oh well.
     
    #18986 allothersnsused, Jan 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  36. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    New double pivot podcast on Frank and the issues at Chelsea. Did make me feel better about some of the replacement options out there but man is it every depressing.
     
  37. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    So incredibly irritated how the entire Timori situation has been handled. Such an obvious mistake now and will be even worse when Liverpool buy him for 60 million in 2 years.
     
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  38. Jimmy the Saint

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    Do you mean from us or Milan? Everything I've read says they can't afford to exercise the buy option on him so it's largely pro forma.

    That being said, I don't like how the situation ahs been handled either.

    Also can't wait to wake up at 5 AM on Sunday to watch us struggle with Luton.
     
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  39. aisle seven

    aisle seven Well-Known Member
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    It’s the Sun so I’m not clicking it but I agree with the headline.

     
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  40. aisle seven

    aisle seven Well-Known Member
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    Frank agrees too apparently.

     
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  41. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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  42. Gallant Knight

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    Lol Chelsea signed him to a 7 year contract? What the f

    how much is he on a week
     
  43. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    Redeemed himself
     
  44. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    Werner just can't buy a bucket
     
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  45. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    A lot. He’s not sellable for at least 2 years
     
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  46. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    Penalty miss aside, thought Werner was much better today. Would love to give the partnership with him and Tammy some time.

    Frank saying Gilmour might go on loan is insane.
     
  47. jkun

    jkun UGA, United, Falcons, Braves, Tennis, Chelsea
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    I feel like Gilmour should basically be a lock to start from here on out
     
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  48. BleedinGreen

    BleedinGreen Detroit, Michigan State, and Celery
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    If we're gonna play a pivot, it has to be two of Mount, Gilmour and Kante. Jorginho can't do it and Kovacic has been awful this year (though he finally made a progressive pass, which is nice).
     
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  49. The_QCT

    The_QCT Well-Known Member
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