***Chicago Cubs - Blew It Up***

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Buster Bryant, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    so they traded their #1 starter before the season for competitive reasons? Come the fuck on
     
  2. pianoman

    pianoman my drinks are free
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    Darvish was absolutely a salary dump, but the return is proving to potentially be significantly better than was anticipated at the time.
     
  3. Bankz

    Bankz I'm a sick guy
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    If those prospects got to play last year and two of the three were top 100 prospects at the time would you still consider the deal a salary dump?

    I think lack of knowledge on the prospects at the time allowed the narrative of this being a pure salary dump take form.
     
  4. spagett

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    Fuck yes

    They traded an ace

    It was a salary dump. Jesus
     
  5. pianoman

    pianoman my drinks are free
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    We traded our ace, who finished runner up for the Cy Young award, in the offseason after winning the division. Yeah it was a salary dump any way you slice it. I’m not mad about it but there’s absolutely no way you can’t call it a salary dump. Especially when you compare it with what Tampa got for Snell at the time.
     
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  6. Houndster

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    I got an extra bleacher seat for Friday’s game if anyone’s interested
     
  7. Trofie

    Trofie Well-Known Member
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    Yes , some of you actually think Darvish makes us competitive. You don't go into a fucking rebuild carrying Darvish who is 34 yrs old and owed 60 Million dollars. Also had significant injury history.
     
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  8. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    there was no reason to think they’d be going into a rebuild this year. They just won the division
     
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  9. Trofie

    Trofie Well-Known Member
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    While I admit that 34-26 season while getting swept by the Marlins in the WC series was impressive, you'd be an idiot to think this team was contending. We had a better team in 2019 when we failed to make the playoffs. There is no reason to keep an injury prone 34 year old starter when you cant even lockup 3 of your own homegrown players. And its silly to say "salary dump " when two of the prospects we netted will likely be top 10 in our system at the end of the season.
     
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  10. Trofie

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    You guys act like the Darvish situation is like letting Prime Greg Maddux leave for nothing.
     
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  11. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    No one said that, all I said was it was a salary dump. Which it 100% was
     
  12. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    The Cubs didn't get a single prospect from the Padres top 10. Again come the fuck on with this being a baseball move.
     
  13. Bankz

    Bankz I'm a sick guy
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    People hate the Tom because of politics and thus every move made by this franchise is the worst they have ever seen. And they magically forget he is the biggest reason we got to see a world title winning team. But now it hurrr Evil Team Owner!!!

    In one post they admit this roster is broken, the offense is terrible BUT... WHAT THE FUCK WHY AREN'T THEY RE-SIGNING THE CORE OF THE LINEUP!!!!!
     
  14. Trofie

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    You're surprised that a 16 year old who signed in 2019 via the international pool and a 17 year old drafted in the 2nd round of the 2020 MLB draft didn't make the Padres top 10?
     
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  15. Lifeiskilingme79

    Lifeiskilingme79 Well-Known Member
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    This is wrong. People are pissed at Ricketts for having a solid core put together and then refusing to add pieces to compliment the core.
     
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  16. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    No I'm surprised that for a guy that finished in the top 3 in Cy Young you'd trade for a bunch of teenagers.
     
  17. Bankz

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    What pieces did he fail (theo) to add around this team when they had a top 5 highest payroll on the team?

    They were short arms in the pen and they gave up massive returns in the farm for closers. They got unlucky with the Morrow injury.

    They were short on starting pitching so they went after Q, gave up a massive haul of prospects.

    Did you want them to ship of Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Wilson somewhere in that run?
     
  18. Bankz

    Bankz I'm a sick guy
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    You're also the only human on the planet that has complained and thought this front office did a shit job at the deadline... people forget that.
     
  19. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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  20. Lifeiskilingme79

    Lifeiskilingme79 Well-Known Member
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    There's this thing call Free Agency where you can sign players who aren't currently on teams. It's a good way to pick up a few pieces like bullpen arms instead of trading away top prospects and players who are currently on your team

    Hth
     
  21. spagett

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    Rizzo not happy about Jed's comments
     
  22. Trofie

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    He was 34
     
  23. Bankz

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    Yeah I heard the interview this morning coming into work. Given how far apart they seemed to be in value i'm not surprised he's vocal about the situation. He clearly feels like they lowballed him.
     
  24. pianoman

    pianoman my drinks are free
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    This is the issue I have with that trade even though the guys we got are playing well right now. The Rays got back the Padres #2 prospect for Blake Snell who while he has a more team friendly contract, wasn't half the pitcher Yu was last year. Meanwhile we trade the Cy Young runner up and don't get a single guy ranked in the top ten of their system. I have no issue with them deciding to dive into the rebuild but if you're going to do your first move doesn't need to be a salary dump with a questionable return. Because even now Preciado and Caissie are still huge risks to ever make the majors.
     
  25. Scblue

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    People are also pissed because they've been crying about being broke the last few years.
     
  26. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    Exactly
     
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  27. Bankz

    Bankz I'm a sick guy
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    They had the 3rd highest payroll in 2018
    They had the 5th highest in 2019

    Are you expecting the print money like the dodgers? The expectations of people who follow this team are not realistic. They spent nearly 200m in payroll both seasons. With a roster that was basically locked into place with contracts to the core members of the team.
     
  28. Bankz

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    Blake Snell was 27 and wouldn't be a free agent till 2024... the small details and such
     
  29. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    they could spend like that if they wanted to. Instead they used cash to buy up the neighborhood and fund political campaigns
     
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  30. pianoman

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    Darvish also isn't a free agent until 2024 and again just because he's younger doesn't mean shit if he's not a better pitcher which this year is showing again he's not half the pitcher Yu is. Which is why if Snell commanded their #2 prospect, expecting something comparable or even a little better for Darvish isn't unreasonable.
     
  31. Bankz

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    And that ultimately is the what the root cause of the hate is. Glad we can come full circle.
     
  32. Scblue

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    Precisely. They had the money, including an additional revenue stream coming with the network, yet chose to invest it in things tangential to the product on the field (buying the rooftops, creating the hotel, additional work around Wrigley). All of that is makes great business sense, but it rings a little hollow when some of that money isn't being invested back into the team. Not to mention ticket prices rising too. And this was all pre-pandemic.
     
  33. Bankz

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    Resell value... One will have it the other wont. You also expect Snell to improve as he would be just entering his prime vs Yu who would clearly be only going downhill.
     
  34. Scblue

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    No, it's not. That's just the cherry on top of the sundae.
     
  35. $P1

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    *lying about being broke
     
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  36. Bankz

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    Do you think if we didn't have the pandemic that this is the exact path they would've traveled? Because I don't and I think its pretty easy to gloss over at how much the pandemic really did fuck over this ownership group. As you said they made the smart business decision but obviously because of the outbreak it all backfired.
     
  37. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    Crazy the pandemic only happened in Chicago. Look I don’t think Rizzo should get Freddy freeman money but stop the apology tour for Cubs ownership. Everyone faced challenges from the pandemic.
     
  38. Bankz

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    That's a bullshit statement because you purposely ignore the massive amounts of money the ownership poured into the surrounding area and banked on having profits from. Most importantly the contract talks with comcast were taking place right in the heart of pandemic when they didn't even know if games were going to be played. They got nowhere near what they expected given the timing of talks.
     
  39. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    they still own that property. That isn’t money lost. You’re falling for the idea they are losing money and just not making as much money as they want. Chicago didn’t become a smaller market in the last 18 months. The Cubs have a smaller payroll than Oakland now. For years before the pandemic we heard about how the Cubs couldn’t go into the luxury tax because they couldn’t afford it. Bullshit
     
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  40. Bankz

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    Those properties were shut down for months... They had zero revenue coming in. And the mortgage is still due.

    And once again with your bullshit talking point... They had a top 5 payroll for the last 5 years and going into the 2021 season of course they payroll is low now they just traded away 2/3 of it's team.

    You want to hate the ownership group go right ahead, you want to shit on every trade made by Hoyer go right ahead i'm done talking to the brick wall.
     
  41. pianoman

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    The thing is I don't hate every trade Hoyer made. Just the Darvish one, and that I don't hate that we traded him, just that we sold low. Everything else Hoyer has done I've loved. I think he killed the draft. All the trades at the deadline were excellent, even the KB trade as Kilian would've been a top ten prospect in their system on rerank after the year he's had. There was just no need to dish Darvish for three lottery tickets.
     
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  42. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    Imagine thinking a family worth trillions can’t pay the rent on the $20-$50 mil worth of property they bought up around the stadium. Property that is certainly worth more now than when they bought it
     
  43. $P1

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  44. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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  45. Trofie

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    Lottery tickets yes , but its not like they were unknown. I mean there was a reason Preciado was the #1 player in Panama. The Padres spent their international bonus money on 2 of the guys we got. Then got Cassie who had signed for 1.3 million months earlier.
     
  46. Scblue

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    Did you miss the last sentence? This bullshit was going on pre-pandemic. They cried(lied) about being broke all while spending a ton of money elsewhere and arguing with local officials about not being able to do things to generate even more money. Don't forget they were also running a secondary market company that bought tickets up and sold them for multiples over face value. So no, this isn't about their politics. They're just generally full of shit.
     
  47. The Subspace Mariner

    The Subspace Mariner Well-Known Member

    The team was putrid last year, and there was nothing to make anyone think this years team would be any better. Keeping this team together would be like a team doing everything possible to attain the 8th seed in the NBA playoffs. If you think this was a good team the last 3 seasons, then I don't know what to tell you.
     
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  48. The Subspace Mariner

    The Subspace Mariner Well-Known Member

    Here's the thing though...they didn't. What was it, 5 for 75? Has Rizzo himself not looked at his numbers the last 3 years? The players can be pissed all they want, but IMO Hoyer was right about what he said...the Lynn stuff notwithstanding.
     
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  49. Lifeiskilingme79

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    Sure but why say it?l
     
  50. Dr. Richard Cranium

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    Jed and Theo fed everyone the bullshit from the beginning that they were never going to have to rebuild again. Teams from NYC, LA, Chicago shouldn't have to go in tear down mode, especially knowing that when you sell at the deadline you don't get back assets like you used to.

    There is no reason why this team with Yu Darvish couldn't have put together a team that could keep up with the the Brewers, but they salary dumped him for Zach Davies.