Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by TrustyPatches, Mar 15, 2020.
I think spliff is a euphemism for marijuana
91 year old grandmother with Alzheimer’s and dementia tested positive 10 days ago in her nursing home. Huge outbreak of cases between workers and residents.
She hasn’t had a fever once and is still eating everything they put in front of her. She is one tough old woman.
Pfizer says they’ve met safety data, applying for EUA next week. Our internal guys are expecting to get our doses by first week of December and give it to frontline staff, 5-10K doses.
Do you know if they're going to unblind the placebo group and give it to them?
How common is the temporary fever and chills people have experienced with the second shot?
No idea at all. I’m not involved in any vaccine trial work, nor have I ever been. Not sure how that works.
i am very curious to see data
They’re going to have to I would think, but maybe not until gen pop is able to get one.
I was definitely referring to before that, not long after they apply for EUA.
What would be the point of unblinding before that? They want to get as much blind data as they can without being unethical.
obviously if you fall in one of the earlier categories, it’s worth a discussion with them.
There's an argument that if you're blinded while people are getting the vaccine, regardless of who is prioritized, that this is unethical, especially if there's millions of doses already manufactured (vs 15,000+ who received the placebo). You'd still be followed for safety for two years after receiving the vaccine.
Fwiw I talked to one of the recruiters who helped communicate with volunteers for the study I'm in, they said that there's a strong possibility that everyone would be unblinded after EUA was given and the placebo group would like have the opportunity to be vaccinated.
Not sure I get the argument, but that’d be tight. My placebo ass definitely wants one.
When you say 5-10K doses, is that just the first one? Or are we saying “doses” as in the complete vaccine.
Also, are most frontline workers on board with getting the vaccine right away? Or is there a small group that would rather wait (if that’s allowed)
This does a better job discussing the ethical dilemma,
Edit: Pfizer actually said they would vaccinate eligible (no idea what that means, maybe age or occupation requirements) placebo volunteers.
I'm wondering about this too. I would love to get one if I'm in the placebo group, but not at the expense of frontline workers or high risk individuals. Though the amount of people who got received the placebo is probably a drop in the bucket, relatively speaking.
Right, this also suggests that the FDA really wants groups to be blinded for six months after their second shot before giving full authorization. For most of us that would put us at mid-March if we got our second shots in September, that wouldn't be the end of the world for me since I'm not in a high-risk group. I'm mostly worried about protecting my elderly mother-in-law who had to come stay with us as she was doing very poorly in the assisted living facility she had just moved into before it shut down visitation.
Haven’t had a chance to read yet but it’s an intriguing ethical dilemma.
Considering I have no skin in the game, I’d really like to extended the length of blinding to give a better understanding of potential longer term safety issues.
anecdote but every doctor i know is very excited to get the vaccine
can't speak to the nursing staff/etc
We require flu shots unless documented proof of anaphylaxis, so I imagine it will be required to work in those units, but maybe I’m wrong. Hasn’t actually come up in our calls. I imagine anyone opting out is an outlier in those units. Everyone who hasn’t gotten it yet (shrinking every day) wants to get it more so they don’t have to quarantine for all those days. People fucking hate quarantine. Plus most docs and nurses have heard of docs/nurses getting super sick with it (we have 2 physicians in the ICU as patients right now) so the vast majority for sure take it.
Also that number is just doses not full courses ftr
hard gulp anytime I hear about docs in the ICU. C'mon, get here vaccine.
Our group has stopped giving us any specifics/speculation on which vaccine we'll get and when. It might just show up one day and I'll go all Johnny Rodgers man-woman-and-child down the hallway to get it.
Christ, how tedious. If you want to go and ruin a thread with your nonsense, leave it on another thread. Literally nothing to do with what was posted.
If we are taking this post at face value...no they haven't. All of these things are still open. There was similar advice in April and May.
There are countries who have looser rules than them right now, such as Switzerland. There were countries that were reopened more than them i.e. Germany had sports crowds, Sweden said no way. There are things that Sweden did (i.e. keeping schools open), that the rest of Europe has followed.
The decision taken in March has little bearing on right now & how you approach it.
Someone else posted a direct tweet on it.
You responded on a post on vaccinations about Sweden. Why don't you just stick to the other thread if you want to engage in that style of posting? You'll get a few likes to get your dopamine kick but you add very little.
My man, you said the topic was tedious and then in the very next post posted about it.
We get it. You love how Sweden handled this. It's not political to rightfully criticize how that's turned out so far. It's part of the important discussion surrounding this pandemic.
Eh no, I thought it was you who responded SWEDEN but it was one other moron. My post was as follows;
I read on Twitter that Moderna are saying that the doses would go to a full 20m people, rather than 10m, as by the time they need the booster another 20m would be ready to go.
Of the Pfizer doses I think I read it was 20m to Europe and another 20m to the US by end of year with the remaining 10m elsewhere.
With January doses to come, would 50m (with some to get their booster) by the end of January be realistic for the US? You'd be a good way down the line, if so. Seems way too high but the doses would be there just going on these numbers.
Spain seemed confident that they'd have enough of their population vaccinated with Pfizer alone by the end of March (with the EU splitting all of their vaccinations by population meaning that I assume it would be the same EU wide) so presumably are looking even better with Moderna. Moderna has more of a US focus of course.
I'm in this thread to get away from warped brained people like yourself who just transplant weird Twitter narratives. Most of the guys on here want to discuss things normally and are a good source of info as they are knowledgeable. If that includes on Sweden, so be in. The response was bizarre.
Take it to the Sweden board, nerds, we've got vaccine news to celebrate
That was not me, I just interpreted what he was getting at in referencing Sweden.
Your approach in this thread is quite clear. I'm not a huge fan of the economic approach to science (though some of the modeling crossover does hold merit), but hey, I'm a scientist and most definitely biased. I've been here from the start...both threads.
Okay, go through my posts on this thread and the recent posts. I was happily asking about vaccination rollouts etc, stop making stuff up. I avoid that other thread for a reason.
He's right wing piece of shit, just ignore him.
And there we go. If you want to ignore my posts, then fine, don't post SWEDEN on other ones. Can we go back to talking about vaccinations again? I had asked this so maybe we could stick to that?
Is there any good articles on the planned rollouts by Pfizer and Moderna? I've read good stuff on the logistics but curious about the numbers. I believe it's 70m doses between the two before the end of the year but it's next year that we see the big ramp. What's the planned distribution timelines of the 2.3bn doses between the two of them?
I avoided it in March and April as well. Mostly because of the SWEDEN! assholes who were ready to (and largely did) drive our country into the ditch (while having no fucking clue about the actual problem at hand).
I believe you're in this thread for earnest reasons. I am, too. Maybe think about that before you accuse others of being like whores for no reason whatsoever.
Anyhow, Burgundy is right. This is a stupid aside in the face of the excellent vaccine news this week. Moving on.
Our governor (OH) just put a curfew order into effect starting tomorrow. Not sure how enforceable that is, considering he said you can go to the grocery still, get carryout, etc. Everything is still open, just be home between 10pm and 5am. I feel that like this really isn't going to help the problem.
It's a numbers game. People will break it, but you can influence some behaviors and if you influence more than you were before, it's a step in the right direction. The issue now is that that influence is diminishing with the fatigue of being at this for 8 months.
To be clear on Sweden (and the rest of Europe), I always just focused on the facts (on restrictions and facecoverings) & I have always been curious on what seems to work and what does not work in different countries. I never said I agreed with their original decision or things like ignoring track and trace. I also disagree with economy vs. science as I did not and do not believe in a prolonged pandemic that we can have one without the other with waiting for a vaccine seemingly very risky - I wanted to focus on reopening with a science led approach. The Trump (thankfully gone) element made that thread poisonous in my view.
As of now, I don't give a crap about shutdowns as we have such good news on vaccines. The threat for societies to navigate right now is the Holiday season, that is tricky as we cannot just shutdown as there will (IMO) be mass disobedience. If we are shutdown in January, February and even into March now waiting to get the vaccine then fine by me as there is a clearly defined end goal and we can hang on. And that's why I'm so interested in the logistics of the rollout now and not as much on how to "live with this virus", I want to live without the thing for a bit.
Cheers to that
We went into Level 5 4 weeks ago. That involved the closure of all non essential businesses except for construction and all schools remain open. The goal was 100 daily cases (down from c. 1,200 a month ago, population of 5m with 15k daily tests).
There is diminishing returns on it. The problem seems to be that we put in place Level 3 (distance movements, closed indoor bars and restaurants & banned household visits , the latter having the big impact) and put the fear into people which worked too well really - cases were falling before Level 5 down to 400 or so - positivity fell from 7% to 4%. Level 5 isn't having the intended impact of driving cases down to 100 (which would be about 1% positivity) as there is so much fatigue and so much of the economy is open - cases have stalled out at 300 or so with 3-4% positivity.
We are doing fine though with hospitalisations falling daily still but they are worried about reopening and fear messages aren't working anymore. I think what will happen here is that we will reopen non essential retail at the start of December and allow 1 week off from tight restrictions on Christmas week.
It's really bad in OH right now, so I do hope it works. Where are you located?
We still need to explain R(0) when we can. For some reason, it's not intuitive to people that influencing behavior to get R(0) below 1 is sufficient to make the curves go down and not up. You don't need it to be 0.
what's the length of times one experiences fever+chills after vaccination?
From the anecdotal posts from others ITT and elsewhere online, the second shot was much worse and they appeared 12 hours or so after.
I think part of that is to communicate that an end is in sight.
Most Western countries had successfully crushed the curve by May. It took off again in places after that but forget it, there was a successful societal buy in for restrictions. You can afford to miss out on that dinner with friends now that the vaccine is so close.
how long did they last for? Also maybe that's okay because it'll keep dumb people from thinking vaccines work instantly and stay home
Most public health experts don't think curfews will work
JacobPalmer I think you said your symptoms after the second shot started less than a day after you got it and then resolved after a day or less right?
Twitter is a buzz with a Danish mask study saying "masks don't work", ignoring 40+ other studies showing they help and ignoring that the study is fucking hot garbage (46% of people in mask treatment didn't always wear masks and the vast majority of infections were diagnosed via serum antibody studies when Denmark had an incredibly low prevalence, meaning most of the infections in the study were false positives anyways. In terms of PCR diagnosed cases, there were 0 in the mask group and 5 in the control group... out of 4800 total patients... yea low incidence indeed).
Certainly masks aren't 100% effective nor are they our best option, but they've clearly been shown to help lower R rate and slow outbreaks.
ugh, fuck this shit. how does it get published?