Dave Chappelle's Increasingly Less Righteous Rants

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Truman, Jun 12, 2020.

  1. chuckmasterflex

    chuckmasterflex Attack and dethrone God
    Donor TMB OG
    Tennessee VolunteersUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamLiverpool

    Feel like everyone would be less confused if Dave just had an actual weekly podcast instead of just getting paid a lot to do one live podcast every few years and calling it stand up.
     
    Tman12, Jake Barnes, drewru and 2 others like this.
  2. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    These two sentences seem a bit contradictory to me.
     
    drewru likes this.
  3. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    How so? Commentary on the special can have an unintended positive consequence.
     
    DriveByBBQ likes this.
  4. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    On the one hand, you aren’t sure if the material is damaging to the trans community, but then you indicate that any criticism ignores the context of the jokes.
     
  5. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    FWIW, I watched it last night. Having read a lot of reviews and this thread, I expected it to be very different than it was. It wasn't 70 minutes of trans-bashing with subtle ties to race. It was very clearly about race, and the criticisms were about the difference in response to race issues and LGBTQ+ issues. I'm not endorsing his point, but I think that he certainly has a perspective that allows him to make that criticism.
     
    ugafish, Mr. Bean, paulski and 9 others like this.
  6. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    That's not what I said. I earlier said that the black erasure criticism had merit. My point was that the "punching down" criticism, specifically, ignored the context.
     
    TrustyPatches likes this.
  7. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    I don’t understand the differentiation you’re trying to make.

    There is no legitimate criticism that Dave is punching down here? If you want to whittle this part down to non-black trans folks, I’m fine with that.
     
  8. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
    Staff Donor

    Wes and his soft spot for reactionary content never fails
     
    steamengine and ~ taylor ~ like this.
  9. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    I think that you'd better see the differentiation if you'd watched it. :twocents:

    Edit: Having typed that, I recognize it sounds like a copout. The difference comes in the context of the jokes. It's not even really punching. It's not bully v. victim.
     
    DriveByBBQ likes this.
  10. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    I'm nothing if not consistent.
     
    steamengine and Daniel Ocean like this.
  11. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    This conversation is rapidly going into the “watch Jordan Peterson videos!” territory. I’m not asking about what Dave said. I’m asking your opinion.

    Is there no legitimate criticism that Dave is punching down against the white trans community?
     
  12. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    See the edit.

    I guess I could entertain the argument, but I feel like it strips the perspective of a black person to make it into him punching down. For it to be that, you have to reduce the oppression he's faced being black. Doing that by pointing to his wealth and success gets white privilege-y.
     
    TrustyPatches likes this.
  13. DriveByBBQ

    DriveByBBQ Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideTiger WoodsBirmingham LegionPGAGrateful DeadUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    Doesn’t watch stand-up special, opines on the merits of said special. Hilarious. Please watch the special if you’re going to have an opinion about it.

    Also, are you aware that this man turned down $50 million dollars and what was at the time the largest contract offer in the history of television all based on his principles and prioritizing self-care?

    Dave doesn’t give a flying fuck about the money.
    Dave told James Lipton on inside the actors studio the first time his Dad came to see him perform his told said “you’re never going to make any money doing this” and Dave told his Dad “If I can do this, then money doesn’t matter.”
     
    ugafish likes this.
  14. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    His post was more about the free speech/1A consequences. Dave Chappelle's getting rich and having a huge platform kind of negates the argument that his ability to speak has been threatened.
     
    CaneKnight, drewru and DriveByBBQ like this.
  15. DriveByBBQ

    DriveByBBQ Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideTiger WoodsBirmingham LegionPGAGrateful DeadUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    Gotcha. I shouldn’t have ranted about the 1st amendment, I’ve been stewing about Twitter and it spilled over into this tread. Dave has one of the loudest bullhorns in America and I don’t think it’s under threat of being taken away any time soon.
     
    drewru likes this.
  16. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    Here are some critiques that I don’t believe are privileged or reductive.

    https://twitter.com/rainofterra/status/1445914236668895236?s=21
     
    drewru likes this.
  17. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    Fair enough. As a cis white male, I probably shouldn't have opined at all.
     
  18. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    There is a weird line for white dudes discussing race that I certainly haven’t found. Like in Beeds07 ‘s earlier example of Clarence Thomas - I can certainly disagree with whatever Clarence Thomas or Candice Owens or whomever says to the black community, but I don’t feel comfortable critiquing it.
     
    wes tegg likes this.
  19. IV

    IV Freedom is the right of all sentient beings
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideUAB BlazersDemocratAvengersBirmingham LegionUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    As a short male I’m a member of the only group you can still discriminate against with impunity, so I feel like I can opine on all of this
     
    IrishLAX2, NDJOECA, Tobias and 14 others like this.
  20. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Rutgers Scarlet KnightsCalifornia Golden Bears

    There’s a widely used saying in Brasil, where they have upwards of 8 racial categories: “money whitens”

    While I wouldn’t claim that Dave never faces any type of systematic racism in his life, his fame, resources and power likely insulate him from a lot of it now. He’s speaking from a position of privilege, it’s source just happens to be his fame and wealth, not his skin color.
     
    Tman12 likes this.
  21. Fusiontegra

    Fusiontegra My life is dope and I do dope shit.#SparedByThanos
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami MarlinsJacksonville JaguarsSporting Kansas CityAvengersMiami HeatSneakersWu-tangBook Club

    Weird that the term “punching down” started getting used a lot itt - considering this isn’t the first time Dave has spoken on the LGBTQ+ community - by people who have admittedly not watched this special…and that term is one he directly addresses in this particular special.

    His comments can come off as harmful to the community he’s joking about. I also think I “get” where he’s trying to come from(as much as any white male can). I don’t think he’s trying to be hurtful to that community so that lack of intention takes away some of the idea of “punching down” to me.

    Something worth considering: maybe this thread, the social media backlash, and all of the people speaking out is proof that he’s a catalyst in a discussion that he was trying to be. Maybe in making himself a nearly untouchable villain in this argument, he’s actually done some good. Maybe that’s a copout for him or the people who are siding with him for all the wrong reasons.
     
  22. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    See, I don't think all privilege is the same. I think that wealth privilege isn't within the same stratosphere as white privilege. Wealthy black people still have to deal with being black. Poor white people still get to be white.
     
  23. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
    Donor

    I guarantee you he does care about the money and that's fine. Everyone does. No idea what this has to do with first amendment speech.

    Did he say "team terf" or was that falsely reported? Why do I have to watch it? I tried watching other specials he's had in Netflix and I didn't think they were good and I'm definitely not going to support this one
     
    drewru likes this.
  24. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Rutgers Scarlet KnightsCalifornia Golden Bears

    Agreed. But add fame to that wealth and it dramatically changes the calculus. For example, you don’t think nearly every police officer in America would probably recognize Chapelle and know who he is? And with that knowledge, treat him quite different from a black male, wealthy or not, during a traffic stop?
     
  25. DriveByBBQ

    DriveByBBQ Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideTiger WoodsBirmingham LegionPGAGrateful DeadUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    Dave has “fuck you money” so no, I don’t think his decisions or opinions are financially motivated. The man left $50 million dollars on the table and Netflix just paid him $60 million. What more proof do you need ? You think he’d be saying all this controversial shit if he was worried about losing money? God damn, how can anyone be so dense.
     
    ugafish likes this.
  26. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
    Donor

    I never said he was worried about losing money. While calling someone dense this is the second time you have been unable to follow the argument
     
  27. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Rutgers Scarlet KnightsCalifornia Golden Bears

    You’re right, because no multi-millionaires/billionaires give a shit about accumulating more wealth once they’ve reached that level.

    Dave cares about the money l, just like everyone else does (with few exceptions). His current level of wealth and large following only allow him greater latitude, and it’s obvious he’s using that latitude because he’s less funny and more controversial now than when he was acquiring his fortune.

    Tangential point, but generally, I think massive success is the worst thing that can happen to a comedian. Most comedy is born from struggle, and Dave just doesn’t face the same struggles he once did.
     
    CaneKnight and Redav like this.
  28. CaneKnight

    CaneKnight FSU Private Board's Fav Poster
    Donor

    Dave hangs out with Joe Rogan. He can literally suck my dick acting as if he cares about the LGBTQ community "punching down" on people considering the company he keeps.
     
  29. DriveByBBQ

    DriveByBBQ Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideTiger WoodsBirmingham LegionPGAGrateful DeadUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    Dave Chappelle is a satirist. I believe that deep down, all satirists are really just disappointed idealist.

    Agree to disagree on the degradation of his comedy. I still think he’s the greatest to ever do it and I think Sticks and Stones is up there with Killing Them Softly and For What It’s Worth. Norm McDonald nailed it following the release of SAS when he referred to Chappelle as “The peerless one.”.

    I’m not suggesting there aren’t financial incentives for him to perform. I live in reality and $60 million dollars is $60 million dollars. I’m saying, he isn’t going to compromise his art/content for fear of financial loss. Dave isn’t beholden to the money. Dave Chappelle didn’t become a stand up comic because he was seeking fame and fortune. The fame and fortune are a consequence of his talent and comedic gifts.

    I think this is more attributable to the seismic shifts in our cultural landscape than the evolution of his comedy over that same period. Seems like the world changed not Dave Chappelle.

    My ideal society is one that doesn’t tell its artists what they can and can’t discuss. Particularly in the stand-up comedy medium there is nothing that should be off limits.
     
    ugafish, Mr. Bean and toddzo like this.
  30. electronic

    electronic It’s satire!
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle MarinersCharlotte FC

    I read this like 10 times and I have no idea what it means.
     
    steamengine and ~ taylor ~ like this.
  31. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Rutgers Scarlet KnightsCalifornia Golden Bears

    Human society has continuously evolved and generally, grown to be more inclusive and tolerant. For example, until the early 19th century it was considered good comedy to have blind people parade around with musical instruments they weren’t trained to play (primarily a custom in France). I don’t think any of us would find that funny today. More recently, someone like Andrew “Dice” Clay was a high-grossing comedian. If you’re not familiar with his style, he’s essentially an insult/obscenity comic. He still has a small following but for the most part, he and his style of comedy aren’t as universally accepted/appreciated.

    Dave Chapelle can say whatever he wants, but that doesn’t make him immune to criticism or “cancellation” (i.e. diminishing interest in his work based on evolving societal thought and standards).

    Personally, I think his earlier work ranks him as one of the greatest but a lot of what he’s doing now is going to be viewed as cringe-worthy by future generations. I think it’s currently cringy and for me, tarnishes his legacy.
     
    Beanh8er, timo and DriveByBBQ like this.
  32. i am a bammer

    i am a bammer Ben Eblen>Jamychal Green
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideSan Diego Padres

  33. CaneKnight

    CaneKnight FSU Private Board's Fav Poster
    Donor

    Just mush brain stuff
     
  34. Super Vegeta

    Super Vegeta I'm starting to feel like I'm entering my slut era
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksCarolina Panthers

    [​IMG]
     
    BWC, steamengine, yaywaffles and 18 others like this.
  35. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksBirmingham LegionMississippi Rebels

    I learned who Jaboukie Young-White was on Tuesday, and I have seen him absolutely everywhere in the past 72 hours.
     
    i am a bammer likes this.
  36. DriveByBBQ

    DriveByBBQ Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideTiger WoodsBirmingham LegionPGAGrateful DeadUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    Fuck tha joke police.
     
  37. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakersBook Club

    Ike I said earlier he seems to be playing “oppression Olympics” and I think that’s bullshit. Some communities have had it more difficult but it does nothing to play them against each other.
     
    BWC, LetItSoak, DaveGrohl and 4 others like this.
  38. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Missouri TigersSt. Louis CardinalsChicago BullsSt. Louis BluesEvertonBook Club


    I dont think anyone is criticizing him over the point he's making about LGBTQ issues jumping to the front of line. It's that he's taking that point to justify degrading trans people. Saying he's team TERF, denying their womanhood. That's the problem. He can make all the same points about no one flinching at black jokes, but if anyone makes fun of a trans person, everyone gets serious and offended, without attacking who they are as a people.
     
    LetItSoak and drewru like this.
  39. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Missouri TigersSt. Louis CardinalsChicago BullsSt. Louis BluesEvertonBook Club

    This isnt very 1st Amendment of you.
     
    steamengine and Daniel Ocean like this.
  40. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakersBook Club

    Chris Rock made this point a long time ago. Don’t know how to get it to play at the exact time but at about the 2:30 mark. But the whole thing is funny

     
    Beeds07 likes this.
  41. i am a bammer

    i am a bammer Ben Eblen>Jamychal Green
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideSan Diego Padres

    best twitter follow if you can catch the tweets before they're deleted.
     
  42. drewru

    drewru Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Rutgers Scarlet KnightsCalifornia Golden Bears

    There are no joke police. Only consumers of content who have every right to voice their opinions on an artist’s work. That’s the risk an artist or anyone else takes when they disseminate their work to the public.

    Curious how you felt about Michael Richards when he repeatedly used the N-word during a stand up set. Did the joke police come for him?
     
    #492 drewru, Oct 15, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  43. BIGASSTITTIES

    BIGASSTITTIES Fan of: BIGASSTITTIES
    Donor

    .
     
    #493 BIGASSTITTIES, Oct 15, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
    DriveByBBQ likes this.
  44. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    This is certainly a take.
     
    Beeds07, LetItSoak, Eamudo229 and 2 others like this.
  45. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakersBook Club

    The “punching down” has me a little confused. Maybe Redav electronic or anyone else who believes he is doing that can better explain it to me. I forgot who said but they said it’s his class not his race that makes it punching down. If that is correct and I am understanding correctly he basically can’t make fun of anyone but straight white men because everyone else he will be “punching down” to. Is that correct?

    It also means once you’re successful you lose a lot of material also straight white men aren’t allowed to make fun of any marginalized group.
     
    wes tegg and DriveByBBQ like this.
  46. hood b. goode

    hood b. goode with the mandem
    Donor
    Michigan WolverinesNew Orleans PelicansNew Orleans SaintsArsenal2pac

    The fuck
     
  47. BIGASSTITTIES

    BIGASSTITTIES Fan of: BIGASSTITTIES
    Donor

    Look, I’m black, so it’s ok.
     
  48. Roy

    Roy Well-Known Member
    Donor
    South Carolina Gamecocks

    Sometimes I wonder why y’all spend any amount of your life arguing some of these inane, semantic, and pedantic topics that y’all go on and on about.

    Then two pages later I’ll find myself all caught up and doing the exact same shit.

    Why are we this way?
     
    Beeds07, BWC, steamengine and 3 others like this.
  49. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
    Donor

    "Team terf... gender is a fact"

    That's what Dave said. Maybe you don't care but that's exclusionary language. It's right there in the acronym. If you said "I don't care that he's attacked the validity of their existence" that at least would make sense as opposed to all these proxy war arguments that do not.
     
    BWC, steamengine, DaveGrohl and 7 others like this.
  50. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakersBook Club

    no it’s not and why do I think you’re not being honest. I’ve don’t think I’ve ever heard a black person drop the Hard R.
     
    drewru likes this.