Can someone explain the Ball thing to me? I know he has an intriguing skill set but hasn’t he been bad in Australia?
He was good in Australia outside of being awful as a shooter. He put up some triple doubles and, according to most of the reports I read, is a really talented passer and playmaker at somewhere in the 6'5"-6'7" range. Main questions are his jumper and whether he puts the effort into defense that his brother does.
ESPN did an updated mock that has us taking Okongwu from SC at #7. Also has some updated reports on Okongwu and Halliburton I pasted below if people are interested. Okongwu seems like a really interesting player as a modern center. His statistical profile is outstanding, but I'm not sure how tall he is.
when he was healthy the Pistons were significantly better. We never got to see a full (or mostly full) season with RJ/Blake/Drummond. Not championship contenders but likely contending for the 3 or 4 seed in the East.
Jackson played 82 games last year. Drummond played 79, and Blake had 75 (and most of the misses were at the very end). I don't think Reggie is the same guy he was before the ankle injuries started, and maybe that's what you meant. Him getting hurt in 16-17 was basically the beginning of the end for that run.
Didn't realize he played in every game last year, he seemed like a shell of his former self so maybe I just assumed he was hurt for portions of the year. But also more the Blake injury that killed last season
I just remember it because that's why I thought they should have blown it up in the summer. That group was never going to be healthier, and they still went 41-41 in a bad East.
Was SVG the worst Detroit-based professional sports GM since Millen? Definitely the worst non-Lions GM in a long, long time.
As much as I’m not a fan of Beilein and his fucked up son, I hate Drummond so much more now. What a pathetic overpaid entitled loser man baby.
No way for me on Avila. SVG was not worse than Avila for a variety of reasons. I'd put second-half Dumars as worse than SVG, too.
I can see an argument about Avila. My logic is that Avila inherited a sizable chunk of his issues from Dombrowski, and he at least understands conceptually that he needs to blow it up. He just has terrible execution. SVG on the other hand had zero tangible success and he managed to screw the franchise for a solid half-decade during his last year plus on the job. I think SVG got the benefit of the doubt because he sounded like he knew what he was doing whereas Avila never gave anyone that impression. I'm not including Dumars because his success offsets his failures at the end.
Quinn will have to screw the Lions over well past his firing date to approach the damage SVG did on his way out the door.
Quinn is stupid and bad, but he hasn't yet screwed his eventual successor as bad as SVP screwed the Pistons current front office.
Avila didn't really blow it up, though. He just let it rot until there was nothing left, and now he's hoping something magically grows back in its place. The problem for me with Avila is he took over the organization in August 2015. The "rebuild" started two years later, yet all he has to show for those two years is Jordan Zimmermann's $25M left on the deal. He did nothing for 2+ years to make things better over the long term before they started rebuilding. SVG is just a different case for me. He took over a team with a flawed "franchise" player in Drummond that people thought would be better than he turned out to be. By the time he figured that out, it was too late and they did the panic Blake deal. I also think it's harder to be an NBA GM than an MLB GM.
That panicked move was more damaging to the Pistons franchise than anything Avila has done to date. That sets a really high bar for GM ineptitude.
But I do understand the argument for Avila based on performance to date. He still has time to ruin the decade with a terrible signing or two
Avila signing Upton was pretty much the end of JD as a Tiger. Signing Zimmermann stopped them from doing other stuff that could have helped them contend in 16 and 17. I can think of one trade he's made (Justin Wilson) where I could argue he sold at the proper time. Everything else brought back less value because he waited forever with enormous price tags. I'm not an SVG guy, but ultimately the Blake move isn't going to keep us from doing a whole lot. We're looking at anywhere from $30-50M in cap space this summer even with his deal on the books 2 more years. It was a risk that I wouldn't have taken, but Blake was a top 15ish player in the league last year, and is likely an all-star this year if healthy. If we're comparing to Avila, I'll take the Blake trade over the Zimmermann/Upton contracts any day of the week.
I’ve defended the Blake trade since day 1. That type of talent doesn’t come to Detroit unless there’s significant risk and it appeared that it would work out until the last week of last season. While they have a year to eat (in which he could still be an asset), he’s then an expiring afterwards. They rolled the dice and lost, it happens. Zimmerman, AI, Smith, Reggie, Cabrera extension, etc were all much more damaging.
The Blake trade hurts because of the pick we gave up (especially since it turned into SAG, I believe, who is awesome). I think contract Stan gave to Reggie was significantly worse than the Blake trade, and ultimately cost us more in terms of holding the org back. I would throw in drafting Stanley Johnson in a loaded draft, too.
Technically it was Miles Bridges, then got traded for SGA and was the eventually turned into part of the deal for Paul George. SGA is a very good asset but he’s not a potential franchise guy like Blake.
I've never argued SVG was good. I just happen to think some other stuff was worse than the Blake trade.
Also if the Blake trade doesn't happen, you're looking at Tobias Harris on a near max deal that's longer than Blake's. Trade didn't work out but no one was coming here anyway and SVG took his shot. Has Avila seriously made a move yet that has resulted in an above average major league player? I don't think I can name one. Quinn took a playoff team with a pro bowl caliber QB and deteriorated it into a 3 win abomination. In a league where teams routinely have worst to first turnarounds in one year. He still has a chance to turn it around but his trajectory is far worse that SVG was at this point
There's a salary cap in the NBA. It's harder to win in a smaller market in the NBA unless you hit the jackpot with the lottery. It's harder to win without elite players in the NBA than MLB, and also harder to acquire those elite players. Not all of those factors played a role for Stan, who just made too many mistakes. I think there are just fewer restrictions holding you back in MLB from at least being a playoff-level team.
I don’t follow baseball front office stuff, so I have to leave Avila out of it. Determining who’s worse between SVG and Quinn comes down to how you look at it. Quinn is accidentally doing a great job IMO. He took a team that was a bit stuck in purgatory and has bottomed it out which, despite making the wild card, is what the franchise needed. Now we’re in a position to get a potential franchise QB. Is he too stupid to do it? Probably, but I would have killed for SVG to get us in the top 3 of a draft. Instead, he did everything in his power to win meaningless late-season games. Even when gifted opportunities to get stars in the 8 and 12 spots of the draft, he failed miserably. SVG put us in purgatory while Quinn has blessed us with a chance to hit the reset button. Of course, we all know he’ll pick Okudah at 3 or trade down and take a guard.
Quinn inherited a franchise QB in his prime and still couldn't win. Stafford was on pace for around 4500yds, 36td, 8 ints before he got hurt and they were still under .500. QB isn't the problem with that roster.
Agreed, but as long as the Fords are around we’re gonna need a better QB than Stafford. Most organizations could win with him; we can’t. So I’m cool with us taking a QB in the top 3 every fourish years and hoping we eventually get one awesome enough to win a playoff game.