Detroit Pistons thread: The Motor Cade has arrived

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, May 19, 2015.

  1. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    I’ve seen Grant for Gordon Hayward +13, 15 on a couple of blogs. That would be my preferred move even if Hayward doesn’t play bc of injury and the contract sucks. We don’t have a lot of assets
     
  2. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Hot Take: Anunoby is a better trade asset due to age and contract differences. He might be a better defender. Grant's better offensively and I'm not sure it's all that close for me.

    The idea that your fan base would be happy about Anunoby, but riot for Grant, seems kind of odd to me.
     
  3. Celemo

    Celemo Meatball's dad
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    The fanbase is pretty split down the middle on Grant, but lets be honest...Cronin will defer to Dame on this. The team will be put up for sale soon due to the stipulations in Paul Allen's will as well so Jody doesn't have much of a say in the direction of the team
     
  4. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    Edwards


    Detroit is working under the assumption that Chet Holmgren, Smith, Banchero and one of Murray, Ivey or Sharpe will be gone by the time they’re on the clock. Everything I’ve heard is that several decision-makers in the Pistons’ front office really like Murray. The same goes for Mathurin. Ivey is the prospect I’ve heard mixed reviews about. Hot and cold. Sharpe, of course, is intriguing, but the lack of high-level film provides some hesitation. Detroit is spending this time trying to formulate an opinion on Sharpe, who, per sources, will be working out in Detroit within the next 10 days.

    Right now, if I had to rank these prospects for Detroit, I’d go Murray, Mathurin/Sharpe and then Ivey. I’m not saying this can’t change as the draft inches closer. This is how I see the current big board, based on conversations over the past few weeks and months.
     
  5. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    A couple months ago I was pretty convinced that Sharpe would really rise as the draft approached and ultimately be closer to the top 3 group than the next one. Seems like I was wrong and the opposite has kind of happened. He still might go 4 or 5, but the stuff I've read seems like teams are going back to his HS and AAU tapes and not being all impressed to that extent.
     
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  6. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    Jalen’s dad
     
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  7. Randy Bobandy

    Randy Bobandy Team Ivey
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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    Hollinger on Ayton

    Edwards: Given the lingering dysfunction between Deandre Ayton and the Suns, the consensus belief lines up with what I’ve heard and it appears that he will be playing for another team next season. How sure are you that his time in Phoenix has come to an end?

    Hollinger: I was skeptical until I started talking to a few more people recently. Now, I think it’s more likely than not that he’s in a new destination next season, especially if the Suns can work out a sign-and-trade that brings back some value. For whatever reason, I don’t think Phoenix is totally comfortable going forward with him on a big-money deal, and I think Ayton might be okay with going somewhere else if he can have a bigger offensive role.

    Edwards: The confrontations between Ayton and Suns head coach Monty Williams are out there. There are rumors, too, that Ayton doesn’t get a ton of sleep because he’s up playing video games all night. Do you believe teams are more hesitant now to both max him and acquire him than they were, let’s say, six months ago? Or are these concerns a bit overblown?

    Hollinger: As long as he’s playing Strat-O-Matic Basketball I don’t see what the problem is. In all seriousness, I think the questions every team is asking are some version of “What don’t we know? Why is Phoenix reluctant to pay him? Is it just Robert Sarver being Robert Sarver or is there something else going on here?” I don’t see a specific reason for his value to be down beyond the questions every front office will ask regarding what turned the Suns off.

    Ayton had a good season and will be one of the best free agents on the market. The last two postseasons have shown that he can hold up in a high-level game and not get played off the floor.

    Edwards: As previously mentioned, I do believe that the Pistons will do their due diligence on Ayton and, if the price is right, be in the running to land his services. I don’t get the sense that they’ll break the bank for him, though. On the surface, do you like Ayton’s fit with the Pistons? Is there another team where you think he would fit better?

    Hollinger: I do like the fit. First of all, the Pistons are in a position where they need high-level talent of any stripe in order to compete at a high level. Cade Cunningham is part of that solution and the fifth pick may net another player of that level, but Detroit is still at the stage where talent acquisition matters more than fit.

    The issue I see for Detroit is that it likely will cost them something to pull off because Ayton is a restricted free agent. Even if Phoenix is reluctant to bring him back, the Suns are better off matching an offer sheet rather than letting him leave for nothing. On the other hand, a return in a sign-and-trade could reshape their roster in a way that keeps them below the luxury tax line and still allows them to compete next year. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to draw a throughline to Jerami Grant here.

    If not the Pistons, the other two strong fits I see for Ayton are in Portland and San Antonio. Portland, again, would almost certainly be through a sign-and-trade given the Blazers’ current cap situation; the Spurs have the cap room to sign Ayton outright but a sign-and-trade — for, say, Jakob Poeltl and Keldon Johnson — would seem a more likely endgame.

    Edwards: As you mentioned, Detroit can go after Ayton in restricted free agency, but a sign-and-trade involving Jerami Grant seems like an avenue that could benefit both sides. If Ayton leaves Phoenix, are you certain it is via sign-and-trade? Do you like the fit with Grant on the Suns?

    Hollinger: Yes, the Suns are almost certain to pursue a sign-and-trade if Ayton leaves because they just have no means to replace him otherwise. They can only take back $18.9 million and Grant makes $20.9 million, but this part is easily solvable with the addition of small contracts from Phoenix.

    The biggest benefit for Detroit is the ability to make a trade like this and also be a player in the rest of free agency. They could pick up the options on Frank Jackson, Luka Garza and Carsen Edwards, spend $25 million or so in free agency, and then when they’re done shopping, operate as an “above the cap” team and conduct a sign-and-trade sending out Grant, Jackson, Garza and Edwards for Ayton and Torrey Craig.

    As for Grant’s fit with the Suns… I like it to a point. I don’t think he’s as good as Ayton, but Phoenix does have a hole in its roster where the lack of big wings is a problem, and we saw it especially in the Dallas series. I think Grant has actually become fairly overrated, but if he’s willing to be the fourth option on an elite team he could fit nicely on Phoenix’s roster, and would give them a viable small-ball 5 in playoff matchups that they’ve lacked the last two years.

    Edwards: Last thing: I’m in the boat that the Pistons, while having a good amount of cap space, don’t need to use it all in free agency this summer. This class is blah. Jalen Brunson appears to be gone to New York or staying in Dallas. Zach LaVine isn’t coming to the Pistons. I don’t see Detroit pursuing Miles Bridges given the price he’ll likely command. The verdict is out on Ayton. I loved how Isaiah Stewart ended the season. Saddiq Bey is good already. Cade Cunningham is the face. A top-five pick is coming in.

    I guess my question to you is, do you think the Pistons should feel pressured to make a big move this summer, like acquiring Ayton? I think the pressure to really turn a corner is a year away, personally.

    Hollinger: I agree with you on the timing question. Detroit’s big push in the standings is likely to come a year from now, when the Cunningham-Bey-Stewart group has another year together, the fifth pick in 2022 has a full year under his belt and the Pistons will be sitting on a huge trove of cap space.

    On the other hand, I don’t see how turning Grant into Ayton hurts any of those approaches, except to the extent it leads to a worse 2023 first-round pick. Grant is on an expiring deal, his value will never be higher, and he’s going to want a salary that may be a bit out of line with his actual standing in the league. Detroit’s cap situation is so clean that a max salary acquisition this year wouldn’t block them from doing it again next year; Cunningham is the only player guaranteed more than $10 million in 2023-24.

    Given the difficulty, in general, of getting any big-name players to Detroit in free agency, and the rarity of good young players of any stripe becoming free agents at all, I do think it behooves the Pistons to explore all their options on Ayton. You’re correct that they don’t have to do this, and there should be a price point in sign-and-trade talks where they’re willing to walk away. That said, this opportunity isn’t necessarily going to come up again in the horizon of the next two to three years.
     
  9. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Tuck Comin
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    Just trade for him. We will never be able to get a guy that good in FA.
     
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  10. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    If all it takes is grant and filler absolutely
     
  11. Randy Bobandy

    Randy Bobandy Team Ivey
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    Trade for Ayton and then pay him the max? Gross.
     
  12. Celemo

    Celemo Meatball's dad
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    it would most likely be a sign and trade
     
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  13. Vinegar Strokes

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    I’d rather have a younger guy like Ayton than Grant for the next 5 years is what I’m getting at. One of those guys is probably getting paid by us.
     
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  14. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I'm holding out hope for a good Grant deal that lands us young, cheap players via the draft, but I'm almost positive I'd rather pay Ayton the max than find out who else we used that cap space to sign after reading rumors about Colin Sexton, Mitchell Robinson and the like.
     
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  15. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Wonder if we have something worked out to acquire a late first rd pick because I've seen a few reports about us meeting with and scouting guys mocked to go late rd 1, early rd 2
     
  16. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    David Aldridge asked execs about the guards in this draft class. The most interesting piece:

    Eastern Conference Executive No. 1: He’s a (Russell) Westbrook/(Dwyane) Wade type of guy. I like (Purdue head coach) Matt Painter. But if Ivey had been in a situation where they get up and down the floor and get more open, there’s no telling what he could have done. I know Detroit loves Ivey.
     
  17. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Ivey moves and plays a lot like young Wade, IMO. Biggest difference is Ivey doesn't see the floor and pass like Wade coming into the league. But the movement and explosion stuff is similar, which is crazy.
     
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  18. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    I’ll be bummed when we don’t get Ivey.
     
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  19. Vinegar Strokes

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    you probably watched two games of Ivey all year. Stop trying to act like an expert.
     
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  20. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
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    pre 9am heat. Love to see it
     
  21. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    Yeah, stop sharing your opinions on a message board. :facepalm:
     
  22. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    Vin, you tired man? You’ve been off your game for a few weeks now. Might need some rest before the draft.
     
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  23. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
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    ESPECIALLY if they are not in line with my own subjective opinions
     
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  24. Randy Bobandy

    Randy Bobandy Team Ivey
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    Is Vin a bust? People are asking…
     
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  25. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Edwards did another mock draft column and now has us taking Ivey over Mathurin/Sharpe, and thinks we'll take whoever is left between Ivey/Murray depending on what Sacramento does at 4. He's been all over the place on this stuff the last month, especially with Ivey.
     
  26. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Ivey just screams bust to me.
     
  27. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Seems like he's a bit of a polarizing player in the internet guru group compared to some others in that range. I can see why it wouldn't work, but I think Cade's versatility and ability to do so many different things would lower that bust potential a bit compared to if he went to a team who has someone who has to dominate the ball.
     
  28. Gustavo Fring

    Gustavo Fring Shock the world.
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    https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
     
  29. The Subspace Mariner

    The Subspace Mariner Well-Known Member

    At this point...trade Grant, draft Sharpe, see how hard you can tank and pray you get another top 3 or 4 pick or something.
     
  30. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    From ESPN’s new Mock

    While the Pistons likely will be disappointed to see Ivey off the board in this scenario, Murray's fit here looks strong, especially with the amount of trade chatter surrounding power forward Jerami Grant. The incumbent is widely expected to be on the move this summer, as he's entering the final year of his contract and doesn't look to be on the same timetable as the rest of the Pistons' roster. Murray's cerebral approach and steady demeanor should fit in well with franchise building block Cade Cunningham, with his dynamic shooting ability, how he ignites the break off the defensive glass and the versatility he brings defensively. Sharpe is also said to be a real candidate here but couldn't separate himself in a competitive 3-on-3 workout he conducted last week alongside the likes of Bennedict Mathurin, Dyson Daniels and others.
     
  31. Randy Bobandy

    Randy Bobandy Team Ivey
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    Back to Ivey being out??

    [​IMG]
     
  32. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    If Ivey is there and we take him, I'll be "great...that guy could be a generational talent". If he's gone and we take Murray, I'll be, "great...Ivey is a diva and wouldn't have meshed with Cade, and we'll be better off with Murray".

    Tortoise and hare scenario.
     
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  33. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    I don't think a team with Cade and the supporting cast here going to tank enough to finish bottom 3-4. Young guys have to start playing competitively at some point too. And our young players going to start getting big contracts soon, so this is the offseason to use cap space to sign a FA. I don't think not signing anyone and going for another tank job is the route to take with this team
     
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  34. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    I think Murray is a better fit than Ivey and long term will be at the top of this class, if not the top of the class. I hope the kings don’t take him and we do
     
  35. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Surprised the agents for those players let them compete against each other if that last bit is true. Seems like that kind of stuff almost never happens anymore.
     
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  36. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Boom... head shot.
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    If Sharpe is playing on the level of Mathurin and Daniels after not having played a game in forever it speaks well of him, I think.

    I was also stunned that they are playing competitively on workouts for scouts. Maybe they know the reward is worth the risk in something of a muddled draft between spots 4 and 10.
     
  37. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox (Insert name here) is tired - try again, Vin
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    Christian Wood already dealt, though this seems like a great fit for him in Dallas.

    Now let’s do Grant.

     
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  38. ~ taylor ~

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    The proverbial pupu platter.
     
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  39. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Tuck Comin
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    That trade does not help Grants trade value.
     
  40. Randy Bobandy

    Randy Bobandy Team Ivey
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    Dont think it hurts it either.
     
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  41. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    They were dumping him so they can play Sengun and their pick this year more. Different situation than Grant
     
  42. The Subspace Mariner

    The Subspace Mariner Well-Known Member

    And he's a cancer
     
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  43. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Go pistons!
     
    #6543 smeegsgreen, Jun 16, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2022
  44. Randy Bobandy

    Randy Bobandy Team Ivey
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    this belongs in the boring sports thread
     
  45. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
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    can any of them shoot 3s tho?
     
  46. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Boom... head shot.
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    Not once they get tired
     
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  47. Vinegar Strokes

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    5. Detroit PistonsBennedict Mathurin | 6-6 Wing | Arizona | 20 years old
    Biggest need: A star perimeter player to help Cade Cunningham.

    This is where we get a little crazy. What if Troy Weaver isn’t crazy about Jaden Ivey as the guy next to Cade Cunningham? What if the Detroit Pistons are building something that more resembles what the Toronto Raptors have up north with Cunningham as the primary initiator full time, and everybody around him is athletic, capable of shooting from the outside and has long arms? Molding those players to throw around Cunningham would be genius. That’s why I think Bennedict Mathurin could be a bit of a surprise pick here for the Pistons.

    We know he can shoot the ball. He’s not much of a playmaker, but he can shoot off the catch, and he’s pretty smooth attacking closeouts. His sophomore season at Arizona saw him do a great job of making people pay whether they left him open for the jumper or closed out recklessly. He’s going to need to get better finishing against size in the paint, and you probably don’t want him as a playmaker with how … ambitious … he can be with some of his passing attempts. But he’s had a great pre-draft run, and ending up in the top five doesn’t seem out of question here. Between him and Shaedon Sharpe, Mathurin might have the edge here in Detroit.

    Do you expect a trade here? Can’t imagine the Pistons are in a position to make a move with this pick. Weaver is pretty committed to the draft process, and the Pistons aren’t quite in position to start thinking about the postseason.
     
  48. ~ taylor ~

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    I like Mathurin and I think he is the most likely to not fail among Mathurin, Murray, Ivey and Sharpe. He would be a solid wing with Cade and Bey.

    That mock had Ivey falling to 9th.
     
  49. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    Plus, Bear Down, Cats.
     
  50. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Boom... head shot.
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    Telling cats to bear down is silly.