Detroit Red Wings: Everybody (but Vin) Loves Raymond

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. Manny

    Manny I love lamp.

    I just think its amusing. A beer league near you is going to be floored when the line is complete when we add Hakan's sister's godson.
     
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  2. DeToxRox

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  3. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    What did this say?
     
  4. DeToxRox

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  5. goblue31602

    goblue31602 Well-Known Member
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  6. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Ryan being hurt sucks, but really Glendening was only one I expected to be moved today. I'd guess they plan on resigning him
     
  7. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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  8. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox We dug coal together
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  9. DeToxRox

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  10. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Was against moving Mantha. But Vrana, a 1st and a 2nd seem like a hell of a return
     
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  11. DeToxRox

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    Vrana will get a 4x4 deal or something like that and probably produce close to Mantha.
     
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  12. DeToxRox

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  13. DeToxRox

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  14. The Banks

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    Slight downgrade for a 1st and a 2nd? I like it.
     
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  15. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Dantonio
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  16. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox We dug coal together
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    V
    rana - Larkin - Zadina. Get Larkin all the Czechs.
     
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  17. The Banks

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    Assuming the picks are this year we’ll have:

    2 -1sts
    4 - 2nds
    2 - 3rds
     
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  18. DeToxRox

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  19. Lummy78

    Lummy78 Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. Initial reaction was a little bummed out, but that's a pretty nice haul. Mantha has a higher ceiling than Vrana, but who knows if he'll ever reach it.
     
  20. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    I'd guess one is 2022 for their sake not wanting to move both picks, hopefully the 2nd.

    Move their 1 with some other picks to get another top 10 player. Maybe get a top D man and a goalie
     
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  21. The Banks

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    Yep, we have the capital to get Wallstedt now.
     
  22. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    1st in 2021, 2nd in 2022
     
  23. DeToxRox

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  24. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    So we're keeping Glendening?
     
  25. DeToxRox

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    No one has confirmed either way.
     
  26. goblue31602

    goblue31602 Well-Known Member
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    If we moved mantha I have to assume we were able to move Glendening but I guess we'll see
     
  27. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    What time is the deadline? I thought I saw it was over an hour ago?
     
  28. goblue31602

    goblue31602 Well-Known Member
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    3ET. Have to assume we'll hear about deals for at least another hour though
     
  29. The Banks

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    Stuff always trickles in afterwards
     
  30. DeToxRox

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    Since Steve is doing his presser, I assume that’s a wrap on this deadline. Shocked we couldn’t move Gledening but the Mantha deal makes up for it, and then some.
     
  31. DeToxRox

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  32. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Panik cap hit is manageable at $2.75 m but he is under contract 2 more years after this one
     
  33. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    I'd guess he wants Glendening, Bernier and Ryan back
     
  34. Manny

    Manny I love lamp.

     
  35. buckwild

    buckwild #BucketsGetsBuckets
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    The Athletic gave the Wings an A+ and the Caps a C- for the trade.
     
  36. Manny

    Manny I love lamp.



    I can only hope

     
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  37. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Espn trade grade gave us an A+ as well

    [​IMG]
    Detroit Red Wings: A+

    Another Jedi mind trick from Steve Yzerman. The Red Wings pull a first-rounder, a second-rounder and two NHL players out of Washington for Anthony Mantha.

    Again, the Wings used their cap space to their advantage. Panik makes $2.75 million against the cap through 2022-23 and is a serviceable player. Vrana has shown the potential for even more scoring than his 25 goals in 69 games last season, and he'll get a showcase in rebuilding Detroit.

    Vrana is 25. He fits the Detroit timeline better than Mantha, as the Red Wings are at a minimum two years away from making any significant progress up the standings.

    But as Yzerman has done time and time again, it's the draft capital from the Capitals that's really made this trade a great one for Detroit. They now have two first-rounders, three second-rounders, two third-rounders and two fourth-rounders in this season's draft. Granted, you'd hope it was in a draft with a little more certainty in scouting and player development. But that's a treasure trove, and Yzerman continues to find ways to add to it. -- Wyshynski
     
  38. Vinegar Strokes

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    Wonder if we go goalie with our first pick now?
     
  39. The Banks

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    BPA (non-winger) with 1st pick. Trade up with 2nd 1st using some of that other draft capital to get a pick between 10-15 to draft Jesper Wallstedt (G)
     
  40. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    I think I'm crazy but I really don't see that much difference between Mantha and Vrana. Both former 1st rd picks, Vrana was actually taken higher. Mantha is one year and one draft class ahead of Vrana. Their stats through equivalent seasons (subtracting mantha stats this year)

    Vrana 284 games 76 goals 81 assists 157 pts (6 pp goals)
    Mantha 260 games 84 goals 89 assists 173 points (25 pp goals)

    Mantha has a better points record but has missed more time which is injury concerns and racked up a higher % of his goals on PP time. Vrana benefits from being on a better team, but isn't getting same PP time and has been playing 3rd line, so mantha may have played with more talent on his lines (Larkin and bert).

    Mantha I think is a better player and if he can stay healthy I think can be a 35 goal scorer on Washington, but I think Vrana can be a 30 goal scorer as well. Crazy we got that much extra in the trade
     
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  41. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Dantonio
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    a mock draft I was looking at this morning had us taking Jesper at #5
     
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  42. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox We dug coal together
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    Having now processed this trade, here is what I anticipate for next season. First, the moves this summer:

    - We lose Lindstrom to the Kraken
    - We re-sign Bernier, Ryan and Glendening
    - We bring back Bertuzzi and Vrana
    - We sign Merrill back

    Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
    Bertuzzi - Rasmussen - Ryan
    Fabbri - Namestnikov - Erne
    Smith - Glendening - Panik
    Pearson - Depth signing

    ??? - Hronek
    Merrill - Seider
    Cholowski - Stetcher
    Djoos

    - I wouldn’t be shocked if we signed a vet like Alec Martinez to be able to play with either Hronek or Seider

    Bernier
    Greiss

    Berggren and Veleno start in GR. I think Raymond comes over to GR as well. So you could see something like this in GR:

    Berggren - Veleno - Raymond
     
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  43. DeToxRox

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    And if Yzerman wants to continue to add picks while we try to win the lottery, there is a great chance of getting huge hauls for Vrana and Bertuzzi next deadline.
     
  44. Vinegar Strokes

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    We should look at trading Larkin while we’re at it.
     
  45. DeToxRox

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    We can’t trade Larkin until we have a true 1C. We should explore dealing Hronek imo.
     
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  46. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Bultman -

    For a moment, it looked as though the 2021 trade deadline was going to be tumbleweed quiet in Detroit. The 3 p.m. deadline came and went, and there were no Detroit deals to speak of following three moves over the weekend.

    Then, the bombshell: the Red Wings traded Anthony Mantha to the Capitals for Jakub Vrána, Richard Pánik, a 2021 first-round pick and a 2022 second-round pick.

    Just months ago, Mantha became the first player Steve Yzerman signed with any kind of term when the power winger agreed to a four-year contract with a $5.7 million average annual value. But after what’s been a tough 2021 season for Mantha, Yzerman quickly moved on, getting a pair of early picks and a similar-aged scoring winger in Vrána in return, while taking Panik’s contract off the Capitals’ books.

    It’s a stunning trade that’s going to have a major impact on Detroit’s rebuild. Here’s what it means for the Red Wings.

    Adding picks while getting back another young scorer
    The key to this deal for the Red Wings was that, while adding a 2021 first-round pick and a 2022 second-rounder, they also got back a young scoring winger who fits into the age of their young core. Vrána figures to be plug-and-play in the Red Wings’ top six.

    Vrána just turned 25, making him slightly younger than Mantha, and while he’s never had a season like Mantha’s 2019-20 campaign, he’s been quite productive for his career. He had a career-best 52 points in 69 games last season, and has posted back-to-back seasons with more than 20 goals. In an 82-game season, he would be on pace to do the same this year.

    Offensively, Vrána and Mantha fit a similar profile: dangerous scorers with high potential when they’re on, but who can be inconsistent. For Vrána, that’s showed up most prominently in Washington’s last two playoff appearances, in which he had 0 points in 15 games. Considering the physical elements Mantha brings to the table at 6-foot-5, his solid defensive impacts through the years and the electricity he showed for much of 2019-20, the Red Wings will likely take a slight short-term hit here. That’s why Detroit got extra picks in this deal.

    But Vrána’s production track record suggests it may not be a seismic hit to Detroit’s offense, either — although the impact moving from Washington to Detroit will have on his scoring is yet to be determined, Vrána should get plenty of opportunity with the Red Wings. He never averaged more than 15 minutes of ice time per game with the Capitals.

    If he can continue to turn in legit top-six production, Detroit will have to be giddy at being able to effectively replace Mantha’s offense (2019-20 excepted) while also netting two high picks in the process.

    “We still have to play games, we want to be ready next season, we want to be trying to improve our team again next season,” Red Wings GM Steve Yzerman said. “So just the combination of the two, I thought it was a good fit for us.”

    And if Vrána really thrives in Detroit’s lineup, an added bonus will be that he slots nicely into the age range of the Red Wings’ existing young core, with Tyler Bertuzzi 26 and Dylan Larkin soon to be 25.

    The Picks
    While Yzerman said Monday that getting the combination of picks and a young, plug-and-play scorer were the keys to the deal, the picks will likely be what makes or breaks it long term.

    On pure value, it’s an excellent haul for the Red Wings to get two early picks on top of a good, young player. But if you grant that Mantha is the better individual player, then Detroit still needs to actually hit on at least one of these picks to make the trade a success long-term — especially because they’re taking on two additional years of Pánik at a $2.75 million cap hit in the process.

    The challenges of scouting for the 2021 draft have been well documented, and there’s more than a fair bit of uncertainty involved in drafting players who have played widely varying numbers of games against different levels of competition. That makes it a real challenge.

    But there is no successful rebuild without challenges, and the upside of these picks could, in time, turn this into a home run for the Red Wings. It’s just that they have to nail the picks first, which is far from guaranteed. That applies to the 2021 first-rounder in this trade, just as much as the other 2021 picks Detroit acquired at this deadline. And it may well carry into 2022, too.

    “The draft is very unpredictable, hit and miss, it probably is more unpredictable this year,” Yzerman said. “So you can look at it two ways in that you may get really, really lucky or you may get really unlucky. So time will tell. We’ve got a lot of picks, and our scouting staff have been doing the best they can to evaluate and look for prospects, and we’ll get some.”

    Translation: maybe the bizarre scouting environment this year drops a player who deserved to go higher into the Red Wings’ lap with Washington’s pick in the late 20s. Or maybe it leads them to whiff on someone, or pass over a player they will come to regret not taking. Either are possible outcomes and while it would be nice to think the Red Wings could will their way to nailing those picks, luck is a factor in any draft. And maybe especially this year.

    So, the Red Wings just have prepare the best they can, and hope that they fall on the right side of the coin. And they’ll at least have more influence on that than they do on the outcome of a draft lottery.

    The future / the expansion draft
    A couple of sneaky elements to this trade stand out.

    First, while the Capitals were probably happy to get out of the Pánik contract, he does serve a particularly useful purpose in Detroit, even beyond whatever he ultimately brings to the lineup.

    Detroit needs to expose at least two forwards who are both under contract for next season and have played a minimum number of games. Frans Nielsen has long been expected to fill one of those two spots for Detroit. And now Pánik will be able to fill the second, should Detroit so choose.

    That will allow the Red Wings (if they want) to protect Vladislav Namestnikov, who previously looked like an exposure risk as a player who also met both criteria without being a young, core piece. So that’s a nice benefit, even while taking on a contract that likely won’t deliver great value.

    Second, Vrána will be an RFA this summer, which will allow Yzerman to negotiate a new contract new with him. That’s an interesting wrinkle to all this, as Yzerman will also go into the summer needing to find new deals for core players Bertuzzi and Filip Hronek, among others.

    Vrána currently makes $3.35 million and had strong regular-season production his last two seasons in Washington, but he won’t have a ton of time to make an impression on his new club, with just 12 games remaining in the season after Monday.

    On the whole, the takeaway on the day of the trade looks like good value for Detroit, picking up a couple of high-level draft picks for Mantha while potentially replacing a solid portion of his production immediately.

    It may delay the Red Wings’ timeline a bit, and the picks will be key to the ultimate assessment of this deal down the line. But the Red Wings have given themselves a chance for real upside with this move.

    (Top photo of Jakub Vrána: Patrick Smith/Getty Images)
     
  47. DeToxRox

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    Zadina is very good, and he will eventually be rewarded even more for his good play. Helluva shot.
     
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  48. DeToxRox

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    Ras is starting to look like a player. He won’t likely ever be worth a top 10 pick but he’s getting confident and staying on the puck. He has talent as his two assists tonight have shown, he just needs to keep playing strong.
     
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  49. goblue31602

    goblue31602 Well-Known Member
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  50. DeToxRox

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    Rogle swept Frolunda. Raymond didn’t play but now that his year is over I’m curious if he signs and comes over to play in GR.