Detroit Red Wings: Our Savior hath returned Easter weekend

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. DeToxRox

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    Nothing contractually but if Yzerman thinks the team will be bad he may choose to have those kids continue to improve in a better environment.
     
  2. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Only reasons I can think of are growing strength, confidence and some chemistry with one another.
     
  3. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Ras specifically struggled but I think did well in his rehab stint in GR. Maybe give him some time there to get his confidence back
     
  4. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    • Yzerman is a boss. He just looks cool, confident and smarter than everyone else. I liked Holland fine but Yzerman just seems different. Also, props to him just going up to the stage and saying like 10 words unlike all of the other owners and GMs fumbling through some bullshit about thanking Vancouver.
    • The 6th slot sorta sucked as it turned out. Fifth would have been exponentially better IMO. Either get Turcotte or field a big trade back offer should Detroit not have been in love with him (seems that may have been the case).
    • It's clear that Yzerman does not think much of Detroit's D prospects on a whole and more specifically physically dominant ones. It makes sense to get some of those dudes. Seider and Tuomisto are both right shot too which seems harder and harder to find for whatever reason.
    • I did not like the 6th pick...I still do not really like it but it's OK. Seider seems like he will be good and looks like a good guy. Glad to have him. He's fine.
    • BUT, picking 6th I hope to get a top pairing D that can be on your first PP, 30-40 goal scoring elite winger or top 2 center. Seider does not seem to fit into that projection by all scout/analysts and even the comments coming from the Wings. I would have preferred Cozen or Zegras. Outside of Larkin and Veleno, there is nothing in the org exciting at center. They desperately need an impact center still. I think Zegras and Cozens have a chance a that. I hope the ceiling on Seider is being underrated at the moment.
    • Seider does seem like a perfect pairing guy to go with a Hronek type or maybe someone like Torey Krug??
    • I loved a lot of the later picks (Mastrosimone, Grewe, Philips). Lots of those guys are elite at one or two things instead of OK at all things. Higher upside guys instead of the safe CHL kid that has size but isn't great at anything. Middle 6 forwards or busts that wont ever make the league is more exciting that the career AHLer
    • Can we get lucky just once and win a fucking lottery? Next year would be great
     
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  5. DeToxRox

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  6. The Banks

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    The worst draft picks ever are the Cory Emmertons of the world. Decent at everything, good/great at nothing. Give me the upside.
     
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  7. DeToxRox

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  8. DeToxRox

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  9. DeToxRox

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  10. DeToxRox

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  11. DeToxRox

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  12. DeToxRox

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    I wonder if Steve is trying to get a seat at the table with Gardiner. If we could get him at 7x7, I would do it.
     
  13. tradercane

    tradercane Well-Known Member

    Thats insane.
     
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  14. DeToxRox

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    It’s going rate for a top 4 D. If his physicals check out, I think it’s worth it. His game will age better than Meyers. Plus, we have no one like him in the system.

    If it takes two more years to be competitive, he will still be in his prime, albeit at the tail end.

    You pair him with Seider and then put together Hronek and Cholowski, you have a potentially very good top 4.
     
  15. tradercane

    tradercane Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't want anything to do with Gardiner and think you would regret that deal in no time at all.
     
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  16. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    Yeah. No thanks.
     
  17. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    I sorta like Jake Gardiner. He was a bit of a scapegoat for Leafs fans/media. I think you can win with him in your top 4.

    7/7 is fine term/AAV for his age and profile. I think this would make a whole lot more sense if the Wings were 2 years further along in the rebuild and ready to compete right now however. We will have to take a chance and sign someone like him in the coming years to fill out the D corps.
     
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  18. DeToxRox

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    His advanced numbers are solid. Even when he’s 5 on 5, his individual metrics were usually higher than the rest of the team.

    Plus his offense is not PP reliant.
     
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  19. DeToxRox

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    LeBrun had two notes on Nyquist

    - Detroit has talked to him

    - San Jose still wants him. That’s of note because if he re-signs, that 3 becomes a 2.
     
  20. DeToxRox

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    A lot has changed since March.

    1. Filip Zadina
    2. Joe Veleno
    3. Mortiz Seider
    4. Dennis Cholowski
    5. Jared McIssac
    6. Filip Larsson
    7. Taro Hirose
    8. Jonatan Berggren
    9. Robert Mastrimone
    10. Evgeny Svechnikov
     
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  21. smeegsgreen

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    How did we get Taro again?
     
  22. DeToxRox

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    Undrafted FA
     
  23. smeegsgreen

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    How’d he go undrafted? Isn’t he pretty good?
     
  24. DeToxRox

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    Undersized and older than a lot of college players.
     
  25. DeToxRox

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    It seems like our FA activity might be limited to bringing back Witowski and Kronwall, and then pursuing some top 9 depth. If I had to guess, opening night will look something like this:

    Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
    Hirose - Athanasiou - Zadina
    Rasmussen - Nielsen - Donskoi (UFA)
    Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm

    Ehn
    Witowski

    DeKeyser - Hronek
    Daley - Green
    Ericsson - Kronwall

    Bowey

    Howard
    Bernier
     
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  26. Manny

    Manny I love lamp.

    That defense is so cringe...but not as cringe as that 4th line cap number :(
     
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  27. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
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    I forgot Svechnikov existed until reading this post
     
  28. billy89

    billy89 Active Member

    Really hope he can stick around, that injury last year was really unfortunate timing.

    DeToxRox - what do you know about Regula? That Top 5 is really solid, plus Berggren if he bounces back from injury. Is he supposed to be in GR this year?
     
  29. DeToxRox

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    I think Regula will be back in the OHL. He has upside but he is down the pecking order right now.
     
  30. DeToxRox

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  31. DeToxRox

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  32. ~ taylor ~

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    From the News:

    Mastrosimone is expected to miss four to six weeks, but should be ready for the start of camp at Boston University.
     
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  33. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Good read from athletic on the wings prospects performance this weekend

    It took all of one day at the Red Wings’ development camp to reinforce the most frequently repeated disclaimer about the week.

    Detroit’s development staff was putting the prospects through shooting drills Tuesday when they introduced one that seemed to stymie more than a few of the newcomers. Every player was to skate in from the blue line to take a shot on goal, while shuffling their feet instead of picking either skate up off the ice.

    It looked, in a word, unnatural.

    The value of the drill, though?

    “Not letting the goalie know which shot you’re going to do,” said Gustav Berglund, a sixth-round pick out of Sweden in last weekend’s draft. “Either (a) push shot or pull-in shot. So, like, to trick him.”

    As for how unnatural it looked: Well, that was the point. At face value, it’s hard to imagine a player using the shuffle itself in an in-game context other than maybe a shootout. But the underlying lessons will absolutely be applied at some point. And the fact that so many players looked confused about the mechanics of it was all the more reason to have them do it — to build up those muscles and expand their toolkits in a controlled, low-stakes environment.

    “We’re working on a lot of things that are uncomfortable for these guys,” said Detroit’s director of player development Shawn Horcoff. “We’re trying to work on skills that are going to help them in the future, skills they’re going to need to develop in order to play in the NHL, and they’re not there yet. That’s just how it works. They’re kids. And so, if they’re worried about evaluation, they won’t try the necessary things. They’re scared to make mistakes, so to (speak), so we make that very clear.”

    That’s the eternal ethos of development camp. Horcoff’s job is to develop the players, and evaluation, by necessity, plays a part in that. But he’s not worried about picking the opening-night lineup in a few months. He won’t have to.

    What’s inevitable, though, is that impressions are made over the course of a week. Even if they’re pretty low consequence, they’re there. Steve Yzerman and Jeff Blashill were in a Little Caesars Arena suite Saturday for the annual Red & White game, a reminder that, in just over three months, one or two of the prospects playing in front of this late-June crowd could also be on the ice for the home-opener against Dallas.

    So, as we run through all of the impressions that were made over the course of the last week, bear in mind that players’ respective levels of development play a role in how they look while going through the process.

    Here’s what stood out from watching Detroit’s top prospects this week.

    Seider’s first live look
    By now, you’ve no doubt seen the videos of Moritz Seider participating in skating drills and looking quite fluid for a player of his size. That was more or less the expectation from last weekend’s sixth overall pick, and he lived up to it.

    What was a little more surprising was how much offensive instinct he displayed in both the Friday 3-on-3 tournament and the Saturday scrimmage. There’s no point in overreacting to a development camp scrimmage, of course, but the defenseman’s clear interest in having and making plays with the puck is a good sign for his offensive upside.

    “When you have the chance, playing in the O-zone with the puck, why not?” Seider said Saturday. “Everybody wants to have the puck, I think. That’s why you play hockey. (I) want to score goals, I want to make nice plays, so I think that’s part of my game for sure.”

    Here are a couple of the shifts that best illustrated that.


    This first one shows Seider’s game at both ends. First, he helps break up a play defensively with his stick. Then he jumps up into the rush and, when the puck doesn’t come his way, calmly transitions back to the point. When the play looks like it’s leaving the zone, he gets back on D until the puck comes loose near center ice. At that point, the offense in Seider’s game comes out a bit. He uses a blend of his size and skill to gain and maintain possession, makes the smart pass for a zone entry, then gets the puck back and sets up a great scoring chance with a pass to the right circle.

    And when the ensuing backdoor pass misses its target, it’s Seider on the retrieval to keep possession. A great shift from the big man.


    This sequence is just a couple minutes later, and it shows a little more of the puck control skill. Seider retrieves the puck in his own end, is eventually able to shake aggressive forechecker Ethan Phillips and gets through a ton of bodies before setting up another good look at the net.

    You can tell it’s a summer hockey sequence when he goes through basically the entire defense without much physical contact. And would, say, Quinn Hughes have turned the corner on Phillips after the first cutback? Probably. But this remains a good showcase of Seider’s skating and control, and the tools he has at his disposal to keep developing. It’s also a good sign that after such a long, action-packed sequence, he’s able to finish with the smart, simple play, giving it up to Ryan O’Reilly for a shot on goal.

    In the interest of showing the whole picture, though, we can’t skimp on showing the end of that shift, when — whether because he was tired or something else — Seider has a less than ideal sequence in his own end.


    Here, his clearing attempt doesn’t get out of the zone, allowing the opposing team to regain possession. Then, after the attackers win possession off the wall, he gets caught coming across the net to help on the puck carrier, leaving Otto Kivenmaki alone on the doorstep for a pretty one-timer.

    Again, just as context suggests the first two clips shouldn’t generate too much excitement, the third isn’t really a big deal in the grand scheme either. It happens. But these three clips probably represent the highs and lows of the day for Seider. And all told, there were a lot more highs.

    “He can skate, he’s got some poise, he’s got good sense,” Horcoff said. “He was really impressive today and throughout the week. … Watching him today and watching him in 3-on-3 — which is natural, he was probably thinking a little more on the offensive side of the puck a bit today, but you can see that the talent level is there. … I’m sure once he gets into real games that actually really mean something, it will be a little different (defensively).”

    The standouts
    Count Seider among this category for sure, but the best player on the ice this weekend might have been one who sat out the first day for precautionary purposes.

    Jonatan Berggren has been out since early last season with a back injury, and he looked a little hesitant at first going through drills when he did take the ice. But I’m not sure anyone looked better between Friday and Saturday. He didn’t have any one single defining moment, but shift-by-shift he repeatedly seemed to control or at least impact the play. Three-on-three is a style that should suit him very well as a small, skilled player, but I actually liked him just as much on Saturday, when he maintained possession for long stretches, wheeled around the offensive zone and just tried to make plays. They didn’t always work, but the creativity and ability was demonstrable. I don’t think you could have asked for anything more from a guy coming off that long an absence.

    “Poor guy’s been injured here for the last six months or so, but he’s worked hard to get himself back in shape,” Horcoff said. “You could see his skill level, especially in the 3-on-3 yesterday. He’s moving very well and we’re looking forward to him having a good year.”

    “He’s very dynamic,” 2018 first-round pick Joe Veleno added. “He’s crafty with the puck, he makes plays at high speeds, he knows where to find guys on the ice and he’s very talented. He kind of seems (like) Johnny Gaudreau a little bit, the way he plays and his style. He’s going to be a really good player. He’s quick, and I guess the game now in the NHL is all about speed, quickness and skill, so he’s pretty much there.”

    Gaudreau is lofty, but there could be top-six upside there if Berggren can round out his game and withstand the physical demands of pro hockey. That’s hardly a given considering he stands 5-feet-10, 181 pounds, but the talent is clear. This is a big year for him coming up.

    [​IMG]
    Despite coming off a back injury, Jonatan Berggren was in control through the Red Wings’ weekend scrimmages.
    Speaking of Veleno, the 30th overall pick in last year’s draft was mostly his usual self as well, looking fantastic in the skating drills all week long and scoring a nice game-tying one-timer Saturday. That all in addition to his highlight-reel shootout goal Friday night.

    At one point, a question was posed to Filip Zadina — who sat out much of the week with a hamstring injury — whether he and Veleno could be exciting playing together in Grand Rapids this season if Zadina doesn’t make the Red Wings.

    “Well, he’s a very good player, so if he’s going to play as he played the past year, past two years, I think why (couldn’t Veleno) make the (Red Wings)?” Zadina said.

    The safest bet, of course, is still on Veleno starting in Grand Rapids as he transitions to pro hockey. But there’s a pretty high-profile endorsement for him a couple months before training camp. After Zadina takes a quick return trip to the Czech Republic, the two are going to train in Detroit for the rest of the summer, which has to be welcome news for those who saw how much Dennis Cholowski got out of that program a year ago.

    The other player with a reasonable claim to the best overall weekend would be Taro Hirose, who did a little of everything and stood out for all of it. He had great goals in the 3-on-3 tournament and shootout, plus a nice assist in the 5-on-5 scrimmage. It had to be what the Red Wings were hoping to see from a player who will be in the hunt to make the big club in September. He turned 23 Sunday, so he was a lot older than many of the players out there, but his skill and hockey sense were right where he left off at the end of last season. His fellow late-season add to Detroit, Ryan Kuffner, was also impressive, as you’d expect from a player with NHL reps. Kuffner’s likely ticketed for Grand Rapids, and a strong week of development camp certainly doesn’t change any projections, but it might help him personally as he prepares for camp.

    Kivenmaki had several strong moments during the scrimmages, with the one-timer goal as his highlight and the shootout game winner Saturday as a capper. Arguably bigger than any of that, though, was him saying he had added eight kilos in the weight department (about 18 pounds) since last year. For a 5-foot-8 player who now checks in at 154, those 18 pounds are substantial. He still needs to add more, of course, but it’s a great sign for a player who routinely showed his skill throughout the week.

    “You can tell his hockey sense and his talent level is high,” Horcoff said. “I just think he needs to continue to get stronger. … He really finished strong in the second half of the season in Finland … but he played a lot. He was running on the first-line power play, he was (getting) top-six minutes. That’s the biggest thing. I think he believes and he knows, the way last season finished, how he can play, how he can produce.”

    [​IMG]
    Kasper Kotkansalo showed some flashes of offense in addition to strong skating through the week.
    Boston University defenseman Kasper Kotkansalo was critical of his own 2018-19 season when he spoke with reporters in the middle of the week. “Not good,” was his blunt assessment, when asked how he felt about the campaign, calling it “tough” from both team and individual perspectives. He was especially disappointed with inconsistency from himself and wants to work on his skating.

    The silver lining, for him, is that he was noticeable from start to finish in Detroit. He moved well, and showed much more ability in the offensive zone than his 0 goals and 11 assists this season would suggest — including a snipe of a shot in the 3-on-3 tournament after forcing an offensive zone turnover.

    Defense is the core of his game, and that’s where his case for a pro contract will have to begin when the time comes. But the mobile, puck-moving skills he showed between Friday and Saturday would serve him well in making a more well-rounded pitch.

    “He looked great,” Horcoff said. “He looked great all week in camp. To his credit, he stayed over in Boston (at Boston University) and trained, he’s trained hard; he came to camp in great shape, he’s leaner, looks fast and he’s skating better out there. … I’m looking forward to watching him bounce back this year, because he’s right, last year wasn’t as good as he can be, but that happens. You face a lot of adversity. He seems to have handled that well.”

    Six-foot-six Danish defenseman Malte Setkov appeared to have bulked up a bit and showed off his skating through the week, and the Red Wings are hoping to see him get stronger to shore up the defensive zone as he plays in the SHL this year. They want him killing off cycles, clearing out the net front — the kind of things that wouldn’t have really shown up through the drills or skill-focused scrimmages but could make or break him as a prospect. Under-the-radar 2018 third-rounder Seth Barton had a couple flashes this week, too, and is one to watch going forward. He needs to add some serious strength, at 6-feet-3 and just 174 pounds, but the Red Wings were really happy with his season at UMass-Lowell. They particularly like his vision and puck-moving ability.

    And last but not least, 2017 sixth-round pick Jack Adams had a good camp at just the right time. He’s going into the big third year of college (a year after which many drafted players tend to sign) with some big goals in the 3-on-3 tournament, including one in which he used his stride to out-skate Veleno, then released an impressive shot for the breakaway goal. His college numbers to date don’t jump off the page, and in the end that will matter the most, but he picked a good week to stand out.

    “I thought he played great,” Horcoff said. “He obviously looked like he’s in better shape, he’s skating better. You can tell he can score. He just has to keep doing what he’s doing. Keep working, and I think his role will develop as time goes on in college.”

    Honorable mention to Chase Pearson, who has the tools to be an interesting defensive center in Detroit down the line and showed some offense, too, in the scrimmages.

    [​IMG]

    The 2019 class
    Finally, with so much of Detroit’s 2019 draft class coming from Europe, development camp was a first chance to get a look at most of them.

    The toughest news out of Saturday, of course, was the broken ankle that second-round pick Robert Mastrosimone suffered during the scrimmage. That’s a really tough way to end the week he was drafted, and puts a significant hamper on his ability to train going into his freshman year at Boston University. He did have his moments in the sun during camp, including a really pretty shootout goal in the 3-on-3 tournament.

    Finnish defenseman Antti Tuomisto, who the Red Wings took at No. 35 overall, has a heavy shot but will need to work on getting more fleet of foot. He’s likely a longer-term prospect, though — after going back to Finland for this season, he has his sights set on the college route, meaning it could be as many as four years until he turns pro. I did see him quickly shut down one play behind the net early in Saturday’s game, and there were flashes throughout the week of offensive potential, including Friday’s 3-on-3 tournament. Let’s see what the picture looks like when he can add more lower-body strength to better propel his big frame.

    Swedish defenseman Albert Johansson was essentially as advertised — a really smooth skater who you can see the offensive upside for, especially if he does grow an inch or two like the Red Wings think he could. He’s pretty thin at this point, though, and physically he will need some time. But he did stand out in the drills, and especially during 3-on-3 play, because of his mobility.

    Third-round pick Albin Grewe has already made a name for himself, and he furthered it with a physical game in the scrimmage. That’s no surprise at all. It would be wise, though, not to pigeonhole him too much as an agitator, because he really does have the skill needed to advance up the ranks. His shot stood out over the course of the week, and he had a nice assist in the 3-on-3 game despite having defenders on either side of him in the slot. There’s polishing to be done, but there could be a top-nine player there.

    “He’s a guy that you’re really going to notice even more in games,” Horcoff said. “His competitiveness sticks out, and I think you saw that today.”

    Fourth-rounder Ethan Phillips was all over the ice as well. He’s going to Boston University in the fall, and college is realistically the right path for his development because he’s really thin. But if he can get strong enough to avoid getting pushed around, there’s a lot to like about his game.

    Fifth-rounder Cooper Moore said he thought his development had been “behind the curve a little bit” relative to the other players at development camp, which is part of the reason the longer-view college route was the right move for him as well. He’ll go to the BCHL before heading to North Dakota, giving him lots of time to hone his skills. He does move well out there, and at 6-feet-1 he has the physical tools to develop into a well-rounded player. Sixth-rounder Elmer Söderblom had multiple noticeable moments in the scrimmages and moves great for his size, while Gustav Berglund is another mobile, two-way defender to monitor.

    The reality-check moment of the weekend, though, came after all the play was done, when Horcoff was asked what he knew Saturday afternoon that he hadn’t known when the week began.

    “Not much,” he said, once more driving home his point that the week was more about education than evaluation.

    And true enough, any showings this week — good or bad — will likely be wiped away within a day or two of arriving in Traverse City this September. Maybe even sooner.

    But just as the prospects left Detroit knowing a little more about how to train, how to eat and how to practice, the Red Wings’ development staff left with just a little bit more insight into where their players are in their respective progressions.

    “I think nowadays, (in) the game of hockey, the best players in the world are the hardest-working players in the world,” Horcoff said. “It’s a 365-day a year job now. With these kids, a lot of times, you’re trying to get that across to them as soon as you can. (These have been) long days for them. But they put in a really good effort.”
     
  34. DeToxRox

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    I’m surprised that we haven’t done much yet. That said, I do think Yzerman is waiting for a truly desperate team calls to dump salary.
     
  35. DeToxRox

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    Good depth move. Doesn’t sound like Rybar is coming back so this gives Larsson help in GR.
     
  36. The Banks

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    Big hopes for Larsson. Best goalie in the Swedish junior league as a double underager at 18 y/o. Best goalie in the USHL as a 19 y/o in his first year on NA ice. Top 3 goalie in the NCAA as a 20 y/o freshman. Not bad for a 6th round draft pick.
     
  37. Constant

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    Maybe 2 years away?
     
  38. DeToxRox

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  39. DeToxRox

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    Nemeth is fine. The logjam on D is still annoying but he plays hard minutes on the PK. Won’t provide any O.
     
  40. DeToxRox

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  41. DeToxRox

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    Fil moves AA back to the wing. It’s a whatever signing.
     
  42. lomcevak

    lomcevak The suck zone
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    but why?
     
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  43. DeToxRox

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    We have no center depth and Veleno isn’t ready.
     
  44. ~ taylor ~

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    But why are we trying to get better by signing veterans at all?
     
  45. DeToxRox

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    It isn’t about getting better. He’s signing guys to bridge us until the kids are ready.

    The tank is real. He’s going to make sure the kids don’t have to be a part of it.
     
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  46. DeToxRox

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  47. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    You can also trade some of these vets at the deadline and get more picks/prospects to help the rebuild.

     
  48. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Give me Filp on a 2 year deal to bridge the gap until Veleno over overpaying for a mid to top level guy and destroying our cap space while we wont compete. I like these moves, keep the rebuild next year and by the time the kids are ready in 1-2 years, bring in a top FA to join them with the cap space you will have

    In next 2 offseasons, the following will come off the books
    Next offseason - Green (5.375), Ericsson (4.25), Daley (3.16), Howard (4), Franzen LTIR (3.95), Oullette Buyout (.206)
    In two Offseason - Helm (3.85), Filp (3), Glendening (1.8), Bernier (3), Z LTIR (6.08) and Weiss Buyout (1.67)

    That is an additional ~17 mil next offseason (with 3.95 off LTIR) and another over ~14 mil the following offseason (with 6.08 more off of LTIR). We already have about 9 mil in cap space this season too. Now sure, that ~40 mil will need to get us a new goalie, and AA, Mantha and Bert will get upgraded deals. But really we are not losing much production with that 31 mil gone.

    edited - to fix bad math
     
    #3898 DetroitNole, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  49. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    I would expect next year we look at forward something like
    Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
    AA-Nielsen/Filp-Zadina
    Hirose-Nielsen/Filp-Helm
    Abby-Glendening-De la Rose or Ehn

    Think Veleno, Rasmussen and Svech start in GR. Maybe Zadina does too if we take on a veteran high cap hit guy from a team to pick up more picks or prospects. Just think he is too talented and with the lack of anyone jumping out to take that spot, he makes the team.
     
  50. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Forks Up
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