Detroit Red Wings: Simon says that’s the Cossa doing business :yaoface:

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Ewe
     
  2. The Banks

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    Hard pass on a center with skating concerns
     
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  3. DetroitNole

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    Hard to tell what way this draft goes but I wouldn't be shocked if Eklund was in play for us too. Of course he could also be gone top 5
     
  4. DeToxRox

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    Clarke is a D if that’s who you’re referencing. I’m not sure he has concerns with his speed/pace as much as his stride is ugly. He might have the highest hockey IQ in the draft, so that is intriguing to me.
     
  5. The Banks

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    Got him mixed up with Beniers while reading that post.
     
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  6. DeToxRox

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    Germany won its QF game against the Swiss in a shootout, so now they take on the US in the Semis on Saturday.
     
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  7. buckwild

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  8. goblue31602

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  9. DeToxRox

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    Looks like they did a re seed

     
  10. DeToxRox

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    I’ve been watching video of Mason McTavish, and right now I’m confused what to think about him. His size and shot are great, and I think he can play center at this level, but I’m not sure what to make of his playmaking. I have no idea what his teammates were like in the O or the Swiss league the last two seasons, which might explain his low assists totals. But then he gets to the U18 with better players and puts up 6 assists in 7 games. The U18 highlights show a guy who looks like he can do more than just score, so he has me intrigued for sure. He might be a guy worth a long look at six.
     
  11. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    TB took a 3-1 lead on Carolina. Think if TB closes that one out it bumps our Washington pick up another spot
     
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  12. DeToxRox

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    Yup
     
  13. DeToxRox

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  14. DeToxRox

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  15. ~ taylor ~

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    Great Britain?
     
  16. Lip

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    how’d the best forward not make the all star team
     
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  17. The Banks

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    Same with goalie
     
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  18. DeToxRox

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    That Washington pick is officially 23 (but really 22)
     
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  19. DeToxRox

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    This is the right move. Johansson could make next years team out of camp tbh, but I think being the guy in the SHL is good for him next season.
     
  20. DeToxRox

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    Pronman’s draft rankings are out. What I like about him is that he breaks his rankings into tiers.

    Tier 1 (projected All Star)

    1. Power

    Tier 2 (bubble All Star/Projected top line player)

    2. Guenther

    Tier 3 (Projected top line player)

    3. Eklund
    4. Hughes
    5. Beniers
    6. Johnson

    Tier 4 (Bubble top/middle or quality starting goalie)

    7. Lucius
    8. Clarke
    9. McTavish
    10. Cossa
    11. Wallstedt
     
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  21. ~ taylor ~

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    The reliance on "average" for ranking traits is off-putting. For the Russian defenseman Kirsanov he gives an average skating ranking then says, "he skates quite well." So does "average" mean somebody who skates quite well. I guess I would expect an average NHL player to skate quite well, but how do I use that?
     
  22. DeToxRox

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    He’s pretty conservative with that stuff, but you’re right that more context would be nice.
     
  23. The Banks

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    Where’s Edvinsson? Others have him top 2.
     
  24. DeToxRox

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    12.
     
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  25. DetroitNole

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    Last couple drafts I got really high on someone I thought we'd have a chance to pick (Stutzle and Zegras).

    Haven't fallen in love with anyone here yet.
     
  26. DeToxRox

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    The guy I love is Kent Johnson. I am not sure I want the Wings to pick him though. So many questions surround him, but his offensive upside is so huge.
     
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  27. DeToxRox

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    I also am not sure about Guenther. I kind of see it, but Pronman is bullish on him, and I just don’t see separation between him and a guy like McTavish.
     
  28. DeToxRox

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    He didn’t mention Detroit, but if we can trade 6 and Zadina or something along those lines for Eichel, you gotta do it. I just don’t see that happening.
     
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  29. The Banks

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    Give me one of Hughes/Beniers/Edvinsson at 6 and then use a second and third to bump up Washington’s pick to get Wallstedt.
     
  30. DetroitNole

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    I was starting to like Eklund, but another winger and looking like he may go before us now. The Wallsdedt thing depends on when you ask me. Sometimes on board with picking him that high and others I think its a bad idea.
     
  31. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    6 and Zadina is a no brainer. I don’t think Buffalo returns your call at that point though.

    6, Zadina and Raymond is a little tougher for both sides. I suspect Buffalo will want a young center back. I’d be all over this if it’s remotely possible as you said.
     
  32. The Banks

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    I wouldn’t do 6, Zadina, and Raymond
     
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  33. ~ taylor ~

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    This is what Bultman said about taking for Eichal:

    "For Eichel, one of the league’s top scorers under contract for five more years, the cost would be immense. It could mean a deal headlined by Lucas Raymond or Filip Zadina, the No. 6 pick this year, plus either another current top-six NHL forward or another high draft pick or top prospect.

    It’s possible Eichel’s neck injury changes that price a bit, but the safe assumption is that Buffalo will be able to command a mint for a 24-year-old right-shot center who has been near or above a point per game for five seasons.

    And if that is the price range, it probably doesn’t make sense for the Red Wings to be a major player in those talks. It’s always worth checking in, but that kind of package would be so costly, with so many of the pieces Detroit is counting on in its rebuild, that the Red Wings may not end up being significantly better off than Buffalo is right now. Eichel is a great player, but Detroit still needs so much more."
     
  34. DeToxRox

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    Friedman said he believes Buffalo will punt the neck injury situation to whatever team trades for Eichel, so that alone will lower the cost.
     
  35. Manny

    Manny I love lamp.

    Zadina, 6, and Bertuzzi. I'd contemplate but still not sure I'd full send.

    Eichel will be 25 this October, Zadina 22 in Nov.
     
  36. DeToxRox

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    Eichel is our best shot at landing a 1C, I just don’t think it’s realistic. It’s a shame too, because he is so damn good. I will hold onto the dream that we offer sheet Petterson I guess.
     
  37. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Let’s do both an go ham.

    I wonder if both of the 1st round picks plus zadina would do it.
     
  38. The Banks

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    We’re talking 4 1sts type offer sheet, yeah?
     
  39. DeToxRox

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    Likely, yes. There is talk the thresholds will change though, so that might not be the case.
     
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  40. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    Full send!!
     
  41. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    I don’t think Zadina moves the needle for Buffalo. He’s got like 15 goals in almost 100 NHL games. He’s clearly better than that but not an elite piece when you’re talking Eichel IMO. Eichel is easily a top 20 player in the league
     
  42. DeToxRox

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    I’ve watched some video on Cossa, and man, I see why people love him, but it’s hard to ignore how dominant Edmonton was in the few games they played. His size + athleticism is next level though.
     
  43. ~ taylor ~

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    Athletic Wings two round mock:

    With the NHL’s semifinals now underway, the Red Wings’ other first-round pick — acquired from Washington in the Anthony Mantha trade — is finally locked in. And it’s close to the best outcome Detroit could have hoped for when the playoffs began.

    The Red Wings will make their second pick of the 2021 draft at No. 23 — and that will actually be the 22nd player selected, due to Arizona forfeiting the 11th pick because of a combine testing policy violation last season.

    That makes it a good time for our first two-round mock draft of the summer, which is a more in-depth exercise than it sounds, considering the Red Wings own five picks between Rounds 1 and 2. They have both of their own picks, plus the Capitals’ first-rounder at No. 23, the Rangers’ second-round pick at No. 48 (via the Marc Staal trade) and the Oilers’ second-rounder at No. 52 (from the Andreas Athanasiou trade).

    Certainly, the draft gets increasingly unpredictable as it goes on, especially past the first round. But with the help of a draft simulator, using Bob McKenzie’s scout-driven draft rankings as the preset, we’ve tried to bring at least a bit of structure to the chaos.

    From there, Corey Pronman’s newly released 2021 draft board is the perfect resource not just for finding value, but also for matching players’ skill sets with the characteristics Detroit has gravitated toward in the draft under Steve Yzerman and Kris Draper. I’d strongly encourage giving it a long read.

    In the meantime, let’s dig into the first two-round Red Wings mock of the cycle.

    Pick 6: William Eklund, LW, Djurgården (SHL)
    The simulation produced the same five names in the top five picks as our The Athletic NHL Staff Mock two weeks ago (albeit in a different order), taking Owen Power, Matthew Beniers, Dylan Guenther, Luke Hughes and Simon Edvinsson all off the board before Detroit’s pick. For a team that could use a potential top-pair LHD or top-six center, it’s not ideal, but probably a close approximation of what will actually happen in the top five.

    So, I stuck with the same pick I made in our staff mock too, taking the SHL’s rookie of the year for the Red Wings. Eklund checks some key boxes with his skating, sense and competitiveness, and his productive season in Sweden is an encouraging indicator that he can be effective against men despite his smaller 5-foot-10 stature.

    Pronman ranked Eklund third on his draft board and wrote that Eklund has “a high skill level, a very imaginative hockey IQ offensively and the ability to execute difficult plays at speed.” He also added that “his ability to play in the high-traffic areas and win battles, but also play on the perimeter and be a primary set-up guy, will make him a versatile NHL player.”

    That gives Eklund a true “best player available” argument at this spot, which is the main reason I stuck with the pick here.

    However, there is a case to be made against Detroit picking another winger this high in the draft. It’s not just that Detroit’s bigger needs for a high-end player are at center and defense, but that those positions are the hardest at which to acquire top-end talent outside the draft. Continuing to pick wingers in the top 10 may offer the best feeling on draft day, but eventually, those remaining needs at premium positions must be resolved. And it doesn’t get any easier as the draft goes on, or when it ends.

    For example, in 2016, Winnipeg took high-scoring winger Patrik Laine second, and he’s justified that selection with 150 goals in his first five seasons (an average of 30 per year). And yet, this season, the Jets traded Laine for the center picked right behind him, Pierre-Luc Dubois, and had to throw in another center picked in the first round (Jack Roslovic) to make it happen.

    That illustrates the value of high-level NHL centers, and for that reason, the pull to consider Mason McTavish or Kent Johnson (if Detroit thinks he’s a center) here could be strong. Ditto for defenseman Brandt Clarke. But if the Red Wings truly believe Eklund to be the clear-cut best player on the board, then this pick would be easy enough to understand on the grounds that Detroit needs more elite talent, above all.

    Adding the Swedish winger would give the Red Wings the opportunity to someday roll out a top nine featuring Eklund, Lucas Raymond, Jakub Vrana, Filip Zadina, Tyler Bertuzzi and Jonatan Berggren on the wings (unless they trade one of the above). That’s an enticing possibility. And it should also be noted that Eklund has played some center in his younger days, so there may be a chance to at least try him there.

    Pick 23: Nikita Chibrikov, RW, SKA (VHL)
    The best players on the board at 23 in this simulation are also wingers: Chibrikov and Matthew Coronato of the Chicago Steel (USHL). Both are in Pronman’s top 15.

    Coronato actually went at No. 12 (the 11th player picked) in our staff mock draft earlier this month, so while I tried to just take what the simulation gave throughout this exercise, I did manually remove him here for that reason in an effort to be realistic. But on Pronman’s board, Chibrikov is actually slotted one spot higher anyway, earning above-average grades on his hockey sense and competitiveness and projecting as a top-six forward.

    “He can make slick one-on-one plays, creative plays under pressure and find seams consistently,” Pronman wrote. “He’s physical and responsible defensively. He could be a more explosive skater ideally, but the other elements of his game pop.”

    To get a top-six forward in this range is good value, and once again passes the “best player available” test. But a familiar caveat surfaces: Chibrikov is, again, an undersized winger at 5-foot-10, and does not solve the needs at center or defense.

    This is an important takeaway to going with a winger at No. 6. The “BPA” ethos is very easy for teams to tout going into the draft, but what happens when other teams scoop up the premium-position talent that’s available early? Detroit’s farm system is by no means overfilled on the wing, so these picks aren’t redundant, but emerging from the first round without either a center or defenseman likely means kicking those cans down the road another year.

    One more drastic tactic if the Red Wings want to go BPA at six and find a center or defenseman with their second pick would be a trade-up. If Detroit were willing to package its own second-round pick (No. 38) with No. 23, would that be enough to get into the teens in time to grab a center or defensemen of similar caliber? In this simulation, defensemen Corson Ceulemans and Carson Lambos and centers Cole Sillinger and Aatu Raty went with picks 14-17. There are different questions and risks associated with each, as Pronman lays out in his rankings, and Detroit would be giving up valuable draft capital to make that kind of move. But the Red Wings are going to need to find high-level center and D prospects somewhere.

    No. 38 Kirill Kirsanov, LHD, SKA (KHL)
    Kirsanov was a consideration with the 23rd pick as a left-handed blueliner who Pronman has ranked at No. 16. On McKenzie’s scout-based list, however, he was ranked toward the end of the second round, which is likely why he was available at 38 in this simulation.

    Pronman described Kirsanov (who spent the majority of the season on one of the KHL’s best teams) as “a well-rounded but boring player.” But boring does not need to be a bad thing, especially when it comes to defensemen.

    Pronman continued: “He’s very intelligent with the puck, he skates quite well, kills a lot of rushes, and has enough puck skill to play on a power play, although that may not be his role in the NHL. I could see him being a solid two-way defenseman at the NHL level, though.”

    These playoffs have shown the value of deep blue lines, even if they at times lack flash, which could make Kirsanov a wise pick if he makes it this far (or even 15 picks sooner if Detroit wants to ensure it shores up the defense).

    No. 48: Logan Stankoven, C/W, Kamloops (WHL)
    Like Kirsanov, Stankoven (who Pronman ranked 30th) may be a stretch to make it to this spot. But after clocking in at No. 44 on McKenzie’s midseason list, he was indeed on the board in our simulation.

    Pronman gave him above-average grades in four categories: skating, puck skills, compete level and shot. The only below-average mark was for his hockey sense. But one other thing could work against Stankoven: he’s 5-foot-8. Still, he’s been able to produce in the WHL and internationally, and Pronman wrote that Stankoven “creates chances by pressuring turnovers and winning puck battles” in spite of his stature, which helps reassure.

    The remaining four NHL playoff teams each have undersized players who fell in the draft (or went undrafted) contributing for them, including Brayden Point, Jonathan Marchessault, Jean-Gabriel Pageau, Brendan Gallagher and Tyler Johnson. You would think Stankoven’s multiple above-average traits would be enough for a team to bet on him before he gets to this range. But if he’s there, he merits strong consideration for the Red Wings.

    No. 52: Dylan Duke, C/W, U.S. NTDP (USHL)
    Duke was a near point-per-game player in each of his two years with the NTDP, and while he, too, is just 5-foot-10, he’s another player Pronman rated with above-average competitiveness to go with NHL-average traits across the board.

    He caught my eye as a potential Red Wings type of player when watching the NTDP this year because of that profile. Duke told me recently he’s enjoyed watching Gallagher’s game in Montreal this year and has tried to incorporate elements of Gallagher’s game himself.

    “He’s a competitive son of a gun,” Michigan coach Mel Pearson said of Duke, who is committed to the Wolverines. “He’s got good skill, not the biggest guy but he plays bigger than his size. And he competes and he skates and he’s smart. He’s good with the puck, really good hands. … And he plays both ways. That’s what I like about him, he plays hard both ways, and that’s the beauty of him is he’s just not a one-dimensional player.”

    Duke is working this summer at adding a longer-range scoring threat to his game, but he’s also a player who takes pride in getting to the net, which is a great place to start.

    “I think it’s not easy to do,” he said. “Not everyone wants to do it, but I feel like it’s a part of my game that is really important and something that I definitely want to continue to get better at and continue to do.”

    Duke played mostly wing this season, but he was a center prior to getting to the NTDP and said he flexed inside a couple times this year when the team’s regular centers were out of the lineup. There’s a versatility there, and certainly Duke believes he has the ability to play both. That’s a plus.

    And beyond adding the longer-range shot threat, he’s also working at his skating this summer, and he pointed to that as one of the areas he feels he’s already progressed in since the start of this past season.

    “I think it’s something that I’m putting a lot of time into this summer to keep getting better at, and something that I kind of worked on all year, at the end of practices, doing extra edge work and stuff like that,” Duke said. “So I was really happy with the way, I think, my skating got better from start to finish.”

    (Photo of Nikita Chibrikov: Andreas Hillergren / TT NEWS AGENCY / AFP via Getty Images)
     
  44. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Torn on Eklund because of position. But think he could be like Raymond last year where he is too good to pass up. And it's not like we couldn't use another top 6 winger even with Raymond, Vrana and Zadina.
     
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  45. The Banks

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    Going winger winger with our firsts when our biggest needs are 1C, 1RHD, 1G, and 2LHD is just yuck.
     
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  46. DeToxRox

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    The issue is it’s very likely the best player available at six will be a winger, and it’s possible that it’s by a wide margin.
     
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  47. The Banks

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    We have the assets to avoid that
     
  48. DeToxRox

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    I presume this is true, but if a tip 4 or so begins to separate from the pack, it might not be true.
     
  49. Manny

    Manny I love lamp.

    Whatever happened to Raty? I remember him being the early favorite for number 1 a couple years ago, thought he looked pretty mediocre in the WJC
     
  50. DeToxRox

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    He was terrible in Finland this season.