Detroit Red Wings: Priority Waste - Our Sponsor and Our Defense Core

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by DeToxRox, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Noticed that too. That being said, that's the smart thing for him to say. Under promise and over deliver. Gives him more time in case he makes a mistake or two.
     
    buckwild likes this.
  2. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    You would be a fool to think it is. I like the direction our forwards are going but the defense needs an overhaul still and need to find a future goalie. I think this team is in the mix for a playoff spot next year or two, but are still a few years away from being a contender
     
    billy89 and buckwild like this.
  3. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    One thing Yzerman is big on is culture.

    I am not going to be shocked if he trades Athanasiou this summer to land a young D. I know he mentioned AA by name today but based on AA’s last negotiation, I can see a scenario where he doesn’t want to even get to that point this time around.
     
    Artoo likes this.
  4. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    Will he dump Abdelkader? Let’s hope
     
    Artoo likes this.
  5. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

  6. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    Federov should decline. Fuck the Illitches for not retiring his number.
     
    smeegsgreen and Artoo like this.
  7. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Cant see anyway we could dump his contract. And a buyout doesnt make sense because we would pay for 8 years. I think we probably suck it up for 2-3 years and buy him out after that when we start being in contention or hope we get another compliance buyout when Seattle joins the league. If he is just as bad next year though I wouldn't be opposed to sending him down and waiving him so he isnt wasting a spot on the roster
     
    billy89 likes this.
  8. lomcevak

    lomcevak The suck zone
    Donor TMB OG
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsDetroit Tigers

    Oh my. Fuck yeah
     
  9. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Veleno has really slowed down. 1 point in last 5 playoff games. His team is still kicking ass though
     
  10. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    McIsaac with 2 assists tonight in their 2OT win over Veleno's team. Up 2-0 in the series.
     
    Tony Wonder and DeToxRox like this.
  11. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Drummondville won game 1. Its 1-1
     
    The Banks likes this.
  12. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    The more I watch Broberg, the more I like him. I think 6 may be too high for him though. Potential dream scenario for me at this point may be move down a little and pick up an extra pick and take Broberg. Then move some of the extra assets to move up into end of 1st and take Knight. We still have a group of talented young forwards and prospects, Broberg gives us a high end defensive prospect and we now have a guy who could be our future goalie.
     
  13. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Thinking about what changes we might see this summer, I’m most struck by what Yzerman does to add more skill to the bottom six.

    With so many bad deals, I don’t think we see wholesale changes, but here’s my current guess:

    Buyouts

    - None.

    Trades

    - Glendening
    - Daley

    Waivers

    - Ericsson

    Not re-signed

    - Vanek
    - Witowski

    A few things:

    I think Kronwall comes back to provide mentorship for Hronek and Cholowski. The only way for that to work is to get out from under Daley and E. I think we will trade one and waive the other. E won’t report to GR but he won’t eat up a spot in Detroit.

    Glendening is someone Yzerman likely won’t covet like Holland. I think that opens up a trade to Toronto or the like.

    There is no reason to bring back Vanek or Witowski.

    I don’t expect much in FA, beyond adding a skilled type forward on a one year deal. That is more than okay though.

    Now with all that said, I think the wildcard move for this summer is trading Athanasiou. I just think that Yzerman might sell high on him rather than deal with another rough contract negotiation next summer. I’ll take a shot in the dark and say we deal AA for Trouba.

    That would leave us with something like:

    Mantha - Larkin - Bertuzzi
    Zadina - Nielsen - Rasmussen
    Hirose - UFA - Svech
    Abdelkader - Ehn - Helm

    de la Rose/Turgeron

    Trouba - Green
    Hronek - DeKeyser
    Cholowski - Kronwall
    Bowey
     
    smeegsgreen likes this.
  14. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    That would worry me about getting Zadina going having him on a line with Frans and Ras. He only has 1 goal his last 16 games in GR and only 3 assists and is a -7 in those games. I think we have to put him in a position to succeed next year and dont think that's it. I'm not worried because he has shown flashes, but he isnt quite having the year in the AHL I would have expected.
     
  15. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    I think it’ll be a problem no matter who he plays with next year. I don’t think Zadina is a great compliment to play with AA because AA only knows one speed and both guys would want to drive the line. Zadina is so methodical that I think he needs to play with guys who can get him the puck.

    I could see Ras centering he and Hirose if the team feels like Ras can center at this level.

    I just don’t know.
     
  16. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers



    Get em, Stevie
     
    Lipp, CBH, The Banks and 1 other person like this.
  17. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    That's part of why I am torn on this draft. Our need for defense is huge, and if Byram falls to us I think he has to be the pick. But I think Zegras is a perfect compliment for Zadina. If Hirose turns into a legit playmaking forward, that would be great. Don't think Veleno is ready at least to start next year in the NHL, but I could see a Hirose-Veleno-Zadina line potentially working out. Zadina goal scoring with Hirose playmaking and Veleno strong two way game. Cant see us dumping Frans so that could leave Frans centering a line with Ras/FA (if we want to start Ras in GR) and AA.
     
    DeToxRox likes this.
  18. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Yeah we need playmakers.

    I do think we will make a run at Panarin, despite what Steve said. It won’t matter because he won’t come here, but I can see it.
     
  19. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Zadina scores to make it 1-1
     
    DetroitNole, The Banks and lomcevak like this.
  20. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Zadina with another goal. Griffs are up 5-2.
     
  21. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

  22. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    Won 6-2, there were 144 PIM and 30 penalties.

    Also, we killed a guy.

     
  23. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    2+1=3 for Zadina, plus the 1st star
     
    DetroitNole and lomcevak like this.
  24. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Veleno was held scoreless again tonight as his team lost to McIsaac team, falling to 2-1 in the series. He has 0 points in 3 games. We will just say it is because of McIsaac's defense
     
  25. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    It sounds like Givani Smith has had a helluva playoff for GR. He’s the kind of guy that would be a perfect bottom six guy if he could be consistent and control his temper.

    All reports are he is playing a great all around game and is absolutely under Chicago’s skin.
     
    buckwild likes this.
  26. billy89

    billy89 Active Member

    He's made bad moves, but there are MUCH worse GMs, I think he's done a good job weathering the storm on bad contracts and handing Yzerman a better situation than we were in 2-3 years ago. He's a great talent evaluator but got burned on bad contracts like many other GMs who were managing winning teams and had to overpay for past results. Also, who would have: wanted to come to Detroit, fit under the cap and be a viable NHL player. We all seem to think that some AHLers could come up but we would have been much, much worse. We overpaid for Helm and Abby, but I don't know what other viable options we had at the time. Shit happens, but Kenny has been skewered by fans with unrealistic expectations, we're not playing NHL '19

    To that end, I wouldn't get my hopes up in us moving or waiving Abby - the repercussions in the locker room of demoting a beloved guy with an A on his chest can't be underestimated.

    As for Trouba, I don't see us landing him. To DetroitNole 's point, the rebuild is still going on - if we wanted to sign Trouba to the value he would demand ($4-5m/year) we would owe two 1st Rounders + 2nd Round +3rd Round picks. I am HIGHLY doubtful that we would mortgage the rebuild for ONE player...it's shortsighted. I really don't think we are going to be active in FA until 20-21 at the earliest, 21-22 is more realistic and has a fantastic UFA class.
     
  27. Druce

    Druce Fuck football.
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsNotre Dame Fighting IrishAtlanta BravesDetroit LionsBarcelonaSneakers

    I have a hard time agreeing with any of this. He handed out the bad contracts. The other option is don't pay them and let them walk. Being much much worse would be better for draft purposes and not being saddled with Abby, Ericson, Helm, etc.
     
  28. billy89

    billy89 Active Member

    That's totally fair - but who would have replaced them, at a reasonable dollar amount keeping in mind that his direction from Ownership was to keep going for playoff berths? By no means do I think that they were good contracts, they're dog shit, but my point is what were the viable options? To me, the most egregious error was the NT/NM clauses.

    I don't think that he is perfect, but some time and perspective has dampened some of my frustration with him as a GM.

    I'm curious, what do you disagree about with the Trouba situation?
     
  29. Druce

    Druce Fuck football.
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsNotre Dame Fighting IrishAtlanta BravesDetroit LionsBarcelonaSneakers

    I don't disagree that it would be beyond stupid to give that up for Trouba, but I think the goal would be some kind of sign and trade. Given his relationship with the Illitches, Kenny should have had some foresight and explained that extending the playoff streak was going to hurt the team immensely in the long run. If his hand was forced thats fine, but just based on interviews he did, it didn't seem like he was on board for rebuilding/tanking at all.
     
    billy89 likes this.
  30. billy89

    billy89 Active Member

    I would agree with that - I think the situation was mismanaged, and that's part of his job. But now it's time for Stevie to shine.

    Sign and trade is interesting, I never thought of that angle but it could work and prevent us from giving up too much draft capital. I'd prefer we trade picks versus a roster player like AA. I think he is integral to the future and his attitude has changed making him less of an issue. I'm just nervous about moving him when we don't have a clear answer at 2C. Even if Veleno has a 2C ceiling, which, based on what I've read isn't the consensus yet, we would be such a deeper team with him at 3C.
     
  31. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    We won’t offer sheet Trouba. He wouldn’t risk Winnipeg matching. I know some people that know the family and he doesn’t want to be in Canada if he can help it.

    I could see dealing for him though.
     
    The Banks and billy89 like this.
  32. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Trouba might not be a #1 but he hasn’t entered his prime yet and he’s coming off of a 50 point season.

    I think he is going to develop into a top end 2. If you can get him, you do it. Within reason of course.
     
  33. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit LionsGeorge Washington Colonials

    I’m afraid too much of the love for Trouba in here stems from the UM/state of MI ties.
     
  34. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Trouba mostly gets defensive zone starts, so his possession numbers aren’t great but they are fine.

    Plus only 18 of his 50 points were on the PP, so he isn’t taking advantage of that.

    He’s an ascending player that hasn’t even hit his prime yet. Hell he is only three years older than Hronek.
     
    billy89 and The Banks like this.
  35. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    McIsaac with 2 PP assists tonight as his team about to go 3-1 up on Veleno team. Veleno broke his pointless streak with an assist
     
    Vinegar Strokes likes this.
  36. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Veleno scored, so 2 points for both wings prospects. Halifax up 3-1 in the series
     
    Vinegar Strokes likes this.
  37. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    He was suspended tonight. Down 3-2 under 5 to go.
     
  38. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    He's absolutely a top 2 D, meaning he's a top 62 defenseman in the league. I'd be hard pressed to find 30 better than him (especially if we take value into consideration). He's not a one trick pony either, he's very good in both ends.

    And I have no official Michigan ties.
     
    DeToxRox likes this.
  39. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    We can’t all be perfect
     
    ~ taylor ~, billy89, Constant and 2 others like this.
  40. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    My dad is from just outside of Toledo and have family in Michigan.
     
    DeToxRox likes this.
  41. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Michigan State SpartansDetroit LionsGeorge Washington Colonials

    I think he’d be a good get. I’ve just seen too many cases of the home town kid being completely overrated.

    Some may even say Abdelkader falls into this category. The Lions tend to do it all the time too.
     
  42. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Hey. One week ago we hired Steve Yzerman.
     
    The Banks, DetroitNole and ~ taylor ~ like this.
  43. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    I wish he was running the Lion's draft.
     
    Otter likes this.
  44. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    Petr Mrazek though
     
  45. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    I’ve been trying to watch clips (and some of the U18s) during the draft, and I think I’ve come up with my final top 10. It’s probably a lot different than before, but with Yzerman at the helm, I think what we are looking for has changed significantly. I’ve tried to put together a list from that perspective.

    1. Hughes
    2. Kakko
    3. Zegras
    4. Byram
    5. Krebs
    6. Turcotte
    7. Boldy
    8. Caufield
    9. Broberg
    10. Newhook

    So the first thing you’ll notice is that I removed Podkolzin, Cozens and Dach from the list entirely.

    Under Stevie, Tampa had skill for days. They also had a lot of pace. Podkolzin and Dach have skill but not much pace, and Cozens has pace, but not much skill. I think Yzerman will looking for guys who provide the best combo of both.

    The top two are never going to change, so don’t worry about them.

    Zegras is quick and has elite playmaking. I think he will stick at center, so he’s my next best guy.

    Byram is everything you want in a modern D; he just doesn’t have the elite lockdown presence that will make him a true #1, but that’s okay.

    Krebs is close to Zegras. He’s probably a more natural C, but not as natural a playmaker.

    Turcotte is an all around great player. He would be a fine pick but he does add redundancy with Larkin and Veleno. That isn’t a bad thing, but we need playmakers.

    Boldy is a playmaking W that can also be an elite defensive player.

    Caufield can rip it. He may be one dimensional but that one dimension is elite.

    Broberg worries me defensively but you can’t argue with his offensive ability.

    Newhook just seems like an Yzerman guy. He will be a top 10 pick when all is said and done.
     
  46. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    With all the animosity toward Sergei Fedorov after he left Detroit, what are the chances the Red Wings retire his jersey (No. 91)?

    Devellano: “I’d say pretty good.”
     
  47. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Veleno’s team was eliminated today. If GR wins game 5 today, I would think we would see Veleno in GR.
     
  48. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Would love to see him and Zadina on a line
     
  49. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Griffs are done.

    Hronek will get an invited to the Worlds for the Czech. I am curious if Zadina gets an invite as well. I would love for both guys to go.

    To that end, I won’t be shocked if Canada invites Veleno. They are having trouble filling that roster and Veleno would be a good extra forward.
     
  50. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers