Detroit Tigers Thread: Exclusive Home of the VS Bust Tracker

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Mike Illitch to Chris Illitch was such a huge downgrade.
     
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  2. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Small market owner who hired a team president with a plan of becoming more like the Rays than the Phillies. And maybe it works in the long term if they hit enough in the draft, but there is no urgency here from anyone making decisions.

    It's basically the Avila plan, except Harris is smarter and seems like he knows what he's doing.
     
  3. Duck Smoker

    Duck Smoker Cheekbones like geometry and eyes like sin.
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    Can't prove this either way, but I think Ilitch viewing the Harris rebuild as a 5-year plan is totally defensible given the state of the organization when Harris came on-board. I get fans are inpatient and want action, but I'm fine with them waiting on signing major free agents given the team's major league talent level. Last year was fun, but it was a mirage given the org's talent level, and I don't think it should've convinced them to change off a long-term plan. I'm very comfortable with the Harris plan so-far - Tigers are drafting better IMO and now they're a player internationally. No guarantee Liranzo pans out long-term, but that Flaherty sign and trade was great in terms of process, I think.

    Can't find the link, but there was an interesting article about the state of the Ilitch family company, and Mike spending like a drunken sailor trying to win it all. Suggested it was predicated on banking relationships that were likely now demanding fiscal restraint with Mike gone to make banks comfortable they would be getting repaid. Chris is also just CEO of the family, and I'm skeptical all the decisions are his alone in terms of spending. If that article as correct, the family needs to prove their financial house is in order to free up cash flow on player payroll. Unfortunately for us outsiders, MLB team finances are murky since we don't get details.

    Teams know fans are whores. They know fans will come running back if this rebuild works, so conveying some sort of sense of urgency now really is meaningless for them. The media and message boards will bitch about it, but one injection of Vitamin W instantly erases all that if the team becomes a viable long-term winner.
     
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  4. Celemo

    Celemo Ban the Corner 3
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    it feels like we've been rebuilding for over a decade
     
  5. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I've always believed that Harris is running the organization like someone who told himself "if I ever get to run a team, this is how I would do it" and he's not going to rush that process because other people are frustrated that Avila already did that and failed miserably. He wasn't going to allow that to affect him in any way. I think he's 100% behind the idea of not spending because he thinks doing it would be dumb. I don't think for one second that Harris is going to Ilitch with big money ideas and being turned down. I think he's doing this exactly what he wants to right now. And, as you said, I'm generally fine with that premise in the long run in terms of building a winning team/organization. He seems to have a good sense of how to do things, outside of seeming to be pretty weird when it comes to trades and what his demands can be.

    That said, Chris Ilitch could have gone in a bunch of different directions after he fired Avila, and I'm guessing Harris' plan was appealing to him for reasons beyond his references and thinking he's smart. That's part of it, regardless of whether Harris' plan ultimately works in the end.

    I'm not asking them to go out and give Soto $800M or do things like that. But it's hard for me to believe that there isn't one $100M+ free agent in the last 3 offseasons that couldn't have helped this team going forward, and there aren't very many teams that are so good at drafting/developing that you can just shut that avenue off entirely while relying on your internal pieces being almost your entire core of the roster. And saying "we shouldn't spend until that core is in place" sounds great until you have to start paying that group of home grown players, at which point it becomes "we want to pay and reward our people instead of others".
     
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  6. DetroitNole

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    We gave cobb 15 mil. Lol
     
  7. DeToxRox

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    So what’s Skubal cost now that Fried got that deal?
     
  8. DetroitNole

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    Whatever the Dodgers, Mets or Yankees want to pay him, because we sure as hell aren't paying it
     
  9. DeToxRox

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  10. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Tork is Ass
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    So how does it work. He can sign with whatever team he wants for some minimum minor league contract? Why the hell would he come to Detroit.
     
  11. Thrillhouse77

    Thrillhouse77 Well-Known Member
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    I know SP prices are super high but this must mean we kind of like him I guess
     
  12. Vinegar Strokes

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    I don't give a shit what we pay people anymore. We'll still be bottom 10 in payroll, and I guess silver lining is its less money the Ilitch Trust Fund kids/grandkids/great grandkids get.
     
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  13. MG2

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    I think it says a lot about the number of pitchers willing to take one year deals right now as much as anything.

    I don't think he's terrible. He's a competent starter who still seems to throw as hard as he used to even at his age. There's just not any upside here.
     
  14. DetroitNole

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    What's worse than having a bottom 10 payroll? Spending most of it ($50 mil) on Baez and two 36+ year old SP who neither are stars
     
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  15. nofatchildren - cissp

    nofatchildren - cissp Free Da Guys
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    He can still get paid a few million. But teams have to use their international FA pool to sign him, so every team can theoretically pay him roughly the same amount. Also, the pool resets after the new year, so there’s more money available after that, and that’s probably the only reason he hasn’t already signed somewhere like SD.

    He’s not gonna come to Detroit.
     
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  16. Thrillhouse77

    Thrillhouse77 Well-Known Member
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    I guess the good thing is we have about 5 extra 4/5 starters so maybe we can get like 115 high quality innings from Cobb
     
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  17. DetroitNole

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    Not even going after flaherty or Buehler, let alone the top guys. This franchise is so frustrating

     
  18. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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  19. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    This is my main issue with it. I think Cobb is fine as an innings eater #4 or 5 starter, but we don't really need one off those. We have a ton of potential #5 starters (albeit much younger and not reliable). What we need is someone who can be a #2 or 3 to Skubal. That's both a short and long term need, even if Jobe pans out like we hope. And those pitchers exist in this market. You just have to pay for them.
     
  20. ~ taylor ~

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    Comerica is a good park for winning a Cy Young. Also for leaving and later winning a Cy Young.
     
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  21. DetroitNole

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    This offseason is so infuriating

     
  22. Celemo

    Celemo Ban the Corner 3
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    Back when we signed Prince Fielder for 9/200+ I jokingly told my family that for now on we only eat LC pizza to help offset that salary. I would actually consider doing that for real if we landed a legit impact bat this year
     
  23. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    They're going to have a Red Wings 24-25 season. Regression from their 2023 PDO esque pitching bender and suck ass.
     
  24. DetroitNole

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    Funny both teams have the same owner. I'm starting to think maybe the wings aren't clearing shop to start a new regime is the owner is too cheap to pay the buyout and new people.
     
  25. ~ taylor ~

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    Or it is simply that Steve Yzermam isn’t getting fired by an Ilitch in this lifetime and people who keep talking about it as if it may happen are being silly.
     
  26. DeToxRox

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  27. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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  28. Lip

    Lip Maybe fuck yourself
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    I’d imagine being a left handed hitting infielder didn’t do workman any favors
     
  29. DetroitNole

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    Also being 25 in AA probably didn't help, but he had some pretty solid numbers in Erie this past season
     
  30. Lip

    Lip Maybe fuck yourself
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    How does the minor league portion work
     
  31. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    A question I have never seen an answer to.
     
  32. DetroitNole

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    Pretty sure similar rules but guy needs to stay on aaa roster. Different protection lists so it's usually lower minor guys

    Edit from MLB website, anyone not protected in MLB rule 5 and also not on AAA roster. So basically anyone eligible for the MLB one who is also not on aaa roster. Team has to pay $24k to team they take them from
     
  33. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    This was his third season at AA. He had a huge finish to the season. He was also a switch hitter up until this year when he finally stopped doing it. He's always been considered a really good defender at 3B and possibly SS. Question is whether he turned the corner as a player like Meadows, or if he just stayed around long enough at the same level to be older than everyone else. I think most believe it to be the latter, but if he did figure something out he's a potentially interesting player.
     
  34. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Tork is Ass
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    Just saw Alex Bregman at DTW
     
  35. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Sign Bregman I'll get Little Cesars for lunch. Sign Bregman and Sasaki I'll eat there a week straight
     
  36. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    If we’re playing this game, as a diehard tigers fan, give me same term contract as them for eating LC daily and I’d comply happily.
     
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  37. DeToxRox

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  38. DetroitNole

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    Illitch pulling Bregman, Yates and Sasaki to pull everyone back in would be a fun turn
     
  39. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Although I just realized Yates is also 37. So strike the Bregman and Sasaki part, we sticking to the 37+ club
     
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  40. 20/20/20/20

    20/20/20/20 running thru the house with a pickle in my mouth
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    Man too bad we traded Paredes for Meadows’s brother.
     
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  41. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I've been trying to think of what our version of that Tucker deal would have been. Jung + Olson and then probably a top 10 prospect of some kind like Briceno, Liranzo, McGonigle or Rainer. I think that would have been tough for one year of Tucker, but Tucker is awesome and would have been fun to add even if he's another LH hitter.
     
  42. DetroitNole

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    Yea the problem for tucker is he's a one year rental. Maybe the cubs have the money to be his highest bidder after the year but we never would have
     
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  43. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Agreed. Trading for him and not signing him like NYY did with Soto would have been a disaster for what the price would have been. But Kyle Tucker being on your team for the long term would been fun. He's closer to Soto as a player than a lot of people probably think.
     
  44. Vinegar Strokes

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    Just sign or trade for somebody that’s not 40 years old. That’s all I’m asking for here. If this franchise is serious, and wants people to sit in those stupid ass club seats they’re putting behind home plate, hey will need to acquire some talent.
     
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  45. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    Trade us Seiya Suzuki now Chicago
     
  46. nofatchildren - cissp

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    The Tigers should be in on the Cody Bellinger action now. There’s 0 reason not to unless he just won’t come here. We could easily take on more of his salary than the Yankees want to as well since we aren’t going to have luxury tax implications.
     
  47. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I would rather sign Christian Walker than trade for Bellinger.
     
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  48. Vinegar Strokes

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  49. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    C'mon Tigers, do something