Detroit Tigers Thread: Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    FUCK AVILA
     
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  2. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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  3. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Maybe it's because this team is so bad I've stopped following closely, but I didnt realize until today that Cabrera is the only player we currently have signed past this season on our roster
     
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  4. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    The equivalent of a Bigfoot sighting at this point

     
  5. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    The Athletic did a rough organizational ranking, breaking down each position. It’s very depressing to me.
     
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  6. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Thread got bumped and I thought we joined the Mookie trade.
     
  7. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    We should try to acquire Mookie Wilson. At this point he would be an improvement over most of our OF.
     
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  8. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Was having a nice little Sunday until I read it just now. That hurts to see in black and white, and is even worse that it makes me think they really could take Torkelson #1 overall.
     
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  9. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Tork could be the best player at draft time. We don’t know yet.
     
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  10. ~ taylor ~

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    They can't take Torkleson. What is the fucking point of a guy whose main attribute - right handed power - is wasted by playing at Comerica for 81 games a year.

    I think the OF lines up okay for the future if Greene pans out, and the pitching is very good, so the question is what can they do in the IF and C besides drafting Martin. I think first base can be filled with a FA and catcher is probably the same. After that we're just hoping that some pitching can be exchanged for high level infielders. Maybe Boyd can get a real SS prospect.
     
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  11. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    If he's the best player in this draft, it would mean Martin and Hancock either both got hurt or played like trash, IMO. That would make me sad.

    I was on board with Andrew Vaughn at 5 last year, but a) I think Vaughn's profile is better, and b) that was in comparison to a couple HS position players rather than two college guys (Martin and Hancock) I think are rare talents and will ultimately be viewed in three months as some of the best college prospects we've seen in the last 5-7 years.
     
  12. ~ taylor ~

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    Martin is my clear favorite, but if Hancock is viewed as better than Mize and Manning, that's a fine pick as well. At some point the Tigers should be able to trade some excess pitching for talented position players.
     
  13. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Kiley McDaniel (now at ESPN) has said he thinks Hancock could be viewed as the best college RHP draft prospect since Strasburg if he stays healthy based on what he saw in a workout at UGA a few weeks ago. That's obviously very lofty, but supposedly his stuff is 96-99 with an elite change, really good command and improving breaking ball.
     
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  14. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. DeToxRox

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  16. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    I don’t want Torkelson but he’s off to a hot start. Hancock was awful yesterday.

     
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  17. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Bro it’s best player available. If he’s the guy who has the best year and potential he’s the guy. I hate this rhetoric that the other two having bad seasons would only mean tork is 1. Fuck the media and haters.
     
  18. Vinegar Strokes

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    Martin is the pick if he has a good year. A stud SS has more value than a RH 1B.
     
  19. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Agree but let’s not downplay Tork is legit good at baseball.
     
  20. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I never said he's not good at baseball. There's just a ceiling to that skill set.

    Pete Alonso is probably the best version of that skill set. He was awesome last year. But he's not more valuable than just about any of the top 8-10 third basemen in the league because there's just more value there. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want Alonso. I just wouldn't want to take him with the #1 overall pick if I were drafting from current MLBers.
     
  21. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Is Alonso not the best 1B in the league? Oh and he’s like 24.
     
  22. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Unfortunately this fan base can’t accept the first pick in the draft. They then proceed bitch about not taking the best player because he has a ceiling. Detroit sports fans are so amazing. Maybe we should have got the third pick to satisfy you idiots.
     
  23. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Alsonso was the best 1B in the league last year. He wasn't one of the 15-20 best players in the league because other guys do more. I would prefer to take someone with those capabilities. Apparently, you wouldn't. I'm sorry for the impasse we appear to have reached.
     
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  24. nofatchildren - cissp

    nofatchildren - cissp Free Da Guys
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    If you had the #1 pick in the draft and every current MLB player was available, where would you take Alonso?

    That's his point. If you would take Alonso #1 just say that.
     
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  25. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    If he was the best player in the draft yep all day
     
  26. nofatchildren - cissp

    nofatchildren - cissp Free Da Guys
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    Right. So the question is, is the best 1B in the league, in a draft that contains every player in the league, the best player in the draft?
     
  27. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    He could be, could ask the same question about any position. I’m signing out hopefully next year we get the 5th pick and you guys bitch about it. ✌
     
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  28. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    He could be, but the point is that it's basically impossible for him to be that valuable with a bat only profile. If the best player in this draft is a 1st baseman who needs to prime JD Martinez to be an elite player, that's kind of disappointing if you have the #1 overall pick. There's a reason those guys almost never get picked that high, and it's not because none of them are good players.

    Hancock was awful yesterday and Martin apparently isn't playing SS this year, so that helps Torkelson's cause. If he's the best player, they should pick him. I just hope he isn't because Martin's skill set gives him a lot more room for error and a higher ceiling.
     
  29. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Would you rather have Dansby Swanson or Alonso? That’s basically the ceiling for Tork or Martin.
     
  30. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I'd rather have Alonso, but I don't think Swanson is the comp for Martin. Swanson was a sure fire SS who wasn't close to Martin as a hitter through 2 seasons.

    FR seasons...

    Martin - .338/.452/.414 as a full time player
    Swanson - .188/.435/.250 in 11 games

    SO seasons...

    Martin - .392/.486/.604 at 3B
    Swanson - .333/.411/.475 at SS

    JR season...

    Swanson - .335/.423/.623

    By comparison, Torkelson's stats...

    FR season - .320/.440/.743
    SO season - .351/.446/.707

    Martin as a hitter was basically the same as Torkelson last year against better comp.
     
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  31. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    Hope you’re right man. Appreciate the research. So what is Martins comp? Alex Bregman?
     
  32. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I think a Bregman comp makes more sense than Swanson. The Swanson comp is only out there because of the Vandy thing, IMO.

    I don't know that he hits 40 HR like Bregman has, but I also don't know that Bregman hits 40 HR with a non-juiced ball and doesn't know what pitch is coming.
     
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  33. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    2020 Draft Watch - week 1. I will try to update this every week since we have nothing else to look forward to.

    Austin Martin: .200 AVG (2 for 10), 2 2B, 3 BB, 0 K’s, 2 HBP, OBP .467%

    Spencer Torkelson: .333 AVG (3 for 9) 2 HR, 2 RBI, 8 BB, 2 K’s, OBP .647

    Emerson Hancock: 4 IP, 6 ER, 1 BB, 4 Ks. 13.50 ERA

    Nick Gonzales: .571 AVG. (8 for 14), 4 HRs, 17 RBIs, 6 BB, 3 Ks, OBP .727
     
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  34. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    added nick gonzales. Jesus his numbers first week were ridiculous
     
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  35. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    How often am I allowed to bitch about having the first pick vs the fifth pick? Vinegar Strokes
     
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  36. Joe Louis

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    I know I could check their WARs but wouldn't a lot of folks still give the best 1B title to Freddie Freeman? I even wonder if Rizzo would get some nods over Alonso, though obv not for the next 5 years or something like that. 180 Ks for Alonso last year, def a bit of run good it seems ...
     
  37. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Alonso was tied with Muncy for the highest fWAR, so I just went with that. Alonso also just seems like the best comp or Torkelson as a hitter compared to more all around guys like Freeman or Rizzo.
     
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  38. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    I don’t think anybody in this thread is bitching about that man.
     
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  39. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Gonzales is going to put up absurd numbers all season. Apparently the ballpark for New Mexico State makes Coors Field seem like PNC (or whatever the Giants are calling that place these days). He had a great stretch in the Cape Cod league last summer, though, so it seems he's currently in the top 5-10 mix.
     
  40. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    I’m all in on Austin Martin.
     
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  41. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Ok then
     
  42. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Me too. I'm just afraid he gets on base too much for our front office's liking.
     
  43. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    He was obtusely misconstruing peoples' arguments about the values and ceilings of various positions and players.
     
  44. Joe Louis

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    50 hrs will do that i assume. I still would prefer a lefty 1B with a Rizzo/Freeman type profile if we went that route. Think those guys age a little better than RHB, bit more athletic with those two as well (chip in steals, D). Though I don't have a clue how Alonso's D rated last year ...
     
  45. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    He has now thrown at least twice. I'm scheduling him for an MRI sometime next week.

     
  46. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Found this amusing

     
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  47. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    I love the yearly ‘miggy is in shape/working out/losing weight’ narrative by the Detroit media. I wish they would just buy him out. You think the guy who makes $35M a year would care about the profession even if we suck.
     
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  48. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Fire Izzo
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    He’s in best shape of his life.
     
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  49. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I'm not sure if you saw the part where he has a personal chef now. This is real.
     
  50. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Well-Known Member
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    He's only eating organically sourced empanadas.
     
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