Detroit Tigers Thread: Cardiac Cats 2.0 (TTF)

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    Law on Rocker and Leiter. Not inspiring stuff

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. — I flew to Nashville, my first flight in 14 months, to see Vanderbilt starters Kumar Rocker and Jack Leiter, two of the top prospects in this year’s draft class. I left the next night with the job half done, as an extraordinarily late scratch meant only Rocker pitched in the series against Alabama, leaving scouts and executives with some unanswered questions about Leiter.

    Rocker started Friday night, and through two innings, he pitched like he wanted to grab the No. 1 pick by the throat. Rocker punched out the first seven batters he saw, with a passed ball third strike mixed in, sitting at 92-94 mph and getting strikeouts with that and the curveball at 78-83. (I’ve seen it called a slider, and maybe Rocker calls it that, but it has curveball shape, and he throws another breaking ball at 85-87 that is more clearly a slider.) The latter pitch was plus, maybe a 70, and he was getting swings-and-misses as well as called strikes. And he was in attack mode from the start.

    Then the first hitter in the third inning hit a ground-rule double on the first pitch, and it was like someone let all the air out of the balloon. All the conviction Rocker showed in the first two innings was gone. His velocity was still there, but his ability to locate the two pitches he’d had working vanished, and Alabama hitters were on him. Rocker fought through three more innings, giving up six runs on six hits and five walks in that span, including three walks in the fifth after Vanderbilt came back to hand him a two-run lead.

    Rocker showed four pitches in the outing but never had feel for his changeup, bouncing a couple early in the game and preferring to go to his curveball in potential changeup counts. When he got his fastball at the top of the zone, he still missed bats with it even after the wheels started to come off. He’s a quick worker, and his delivery really makes use of his legs, with a huge stride toward the plate and a fast arm that, along with his 6-foot-5, 245-pound frame, should make him not just a good starter but also a very durable one. If you watched two innings of this start, you’d ask why anyone else was in the running for the first pick this July. If you watched the last three innings, though, you’d probably have no idea where to put him on your draft board.



    • The decision to skip Leiter’s turn in the rotation wasn’t announced to scouts until Saturday morning, a few hours before the 2 p.m. game. The email to scouts said it was “nothing serious at this point but we are monitoring his inning workload,” which doesn’t line up with the choice to skip his turn hours before the game. If you’re going to limit someone’s workload, you make that call days before the start, not hours. Leiter has been struggling in his last few starts, giving up three homers and four walks in four innings last week against Florida and giving up a pair of homers in five innings against Mississippi State the week before. He allowed four runs in each outing. Maybe he’s tired and needs a week off, but the timing of this decision is unusual, and now even more eyes will be on Leiter if and when he retakes the mound.
     
  2. Vinegar Strokes

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    1) Lawlar
    2) Meyer
    3) Davis
     
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  3. DeToxRox

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    Kiley McDaniel’s mock:


    [​IMG]
    3. Detroit Tigers

    Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake HS (CA), USC commit

    Mayer is a fluid defender with advanced feel for contact and above-average power potential in a projectable 6-foot-3 frame. There isn't an outrageous 70-grade tool, but basically everything else is here and you can't rule out one showing up later.

    Detroit has been on Mayer heavy, and he's the leading candidate to go third, but the Tigers are known to put enormous weight on SEC performance and love power pitchers, so either of the Vandy arms is still a possibility. They've also been in deep on multiple occasions, including GM Al Avila, to see Brady House.
     
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  4. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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    He has Lawler and Leiter going before us
     
  5. DeToxRox

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    I don’t anticipate House would be a below slot guy based on what I’ve read, so the idea of Al being the smartest guy in the world by selecting House 3 terrifies me.
     
  6. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I don't think we'll pass on Leiter if he falls to us unless he continues to give up all the HRs over the next month. And I'm not saying we should, either. I'm glad we're that connected to Mayer, though. That's not generally the profile we draft, but it seems like the safest profile for above average+ players.
     
  7. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I don't think that would be a "smartest guy in the world" type pick. He's ranked somewhere in the top 10 by pretty much everyone who has updated rankings this spring, and the upside is enormous. He's a year younger than Lawlar, has massive power and some people think there's at least a small chance he could play SS.

    I would take Mayer because I'm more risk averse at the top of the draft, but I would kind of respect Avila for having the balls to take House at 3 given his situation.
     
  8. DeToxRox

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    First Clink and now Al? Who are you.
     
  9. Vinegar Strokes

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  10. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    I'm not defending Al. I'm defending the idea of House at 3.

    If Al had shown the guts to do things like take House at 3 over the last 5+ years, I probably wouldn't hate him as much as I do.
     
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  11. Vinegar Strokes

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  12. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    We will just take whoever is the highest rated consensusly so Avila can tout his prospect ranking
     
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  13. DeToxRox

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    Seems like he had fallen off but I guess this explains why

     
  14. Vinegar Strokes

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    Where does McDaniel have that LSU pitcher going?
     
  15. DeToxRox

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    22
     
  16. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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  17. ~ taylor ~

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    Is he bionic yet?
     
  18. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    He's had shoulder issues since 2018. I get surgery being the last resort, but his best case scenario is wasting 5 years with various forms of shoulder issues.
     
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  19. Vinegar Strokes

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    Great trade, Avila
     
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  20. ~ taylor ~

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    Is this his first surgery?
     
  21. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Yes. Pretty sure he basically just rested it in 2018 or whenever was the first time. He also dealt with some side/groin type issues one of those seasons.
     
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  22. ~ taylor ~

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    What a fucking waste.
     
  23. Vinegar Strokes

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    avila said earlier today they didn’t want him to get surgery because it would impact his prospect ranking at the time.
     
  24. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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  25. DeToxRox

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    What an impressive collapse
     
  26. MG2

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  27. Vinegar Strokes

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    Avila gonna get fired after the game? All the prospects suck ass. What else does he have to hang his hat on?
     
  28. spartanchuck

    spartanchuck Well-Known Member

    Is this real?
     
  29. Lip

    Lip Well-Known Member
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    check the source
     
  30. Vinegar Strokes

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    We may get our wish today as a 40 man roster move needs to be made as Griener is going on IL
     
  31. DeToxRox

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    One of the beat writers speculated this might happen yesterday so we could clear a spot on the 40 man.
     
  32. Vinegar Strokes

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    Anyone watch the game last night? Matt Shepard was telling tigers fans to go crazy after the walk off hit. What a fucking clown. They just blew a 7 run lead.
     
  33. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    it was cringeworthy
     
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  34. DeToxRox

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    Mize is rolling right now, but he’s at 96 pitches after six. I would let him give it a go in the 7th, but I’m guessing he won’t get the chance.
     
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  35. Vinegar Strokes

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    So which bullpen loser blows the game tonight?
     
  36. MG2

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    I wish he was striking more guys out, but I'll take the rebound of late after those two bad starts.
     
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  37. DeToxRox

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    Law’s updated top 11 (did 11 to include House)

    1. Henry Davis, C, Louisville

    Davis is now hitting .389/.511/.671 for the Cardinals, walking more than he’s struck out, with power, patience, bat control, and a plus arm. He also offers some certainty in a draft class with very little of it.

    2. Jordan Lawlar, SS, Jesuit College Preparatory School of Dallas

    Lawlar has the best package of tools in the draft class, with the potential for all five depending on his hit tool, which is the main question scouts still offer about him as a prospect. He’s very quick-twitch with bat speed and power, but he’ll be 19 at the draft and hasn’t faced great competition this spring to raise confidence in how he’ll hit pro pitching.

    3. Marcelo Mayer, SS, Eastlake HS (Chula Vista, CA)

    Mayer is a left-handed hitting shortstop who doesn’t have the pure upside of Lawlar, but may be a more advanced hitter for his age. He has a great swing with good balance and the potential for plus power, and he’s a potential 60 defender at short as well.

    4. Kumar Rocker, RHP, Vanderbilt

    Rocker’s up-and-down spring might knock him down a few pegs on draft boards, but he can still show a plus fastball/plus breaking ball combination and has the size to be a durable, 200-inning starter, needing primarily to improve his command and show more consistency when working with men on base.

    5. Jack Leiter, RHP, Vanderbilt

    My No. 1 prospect in my last two rankings, Leiter had two bad starts in a row, then missed last weekend’s start as a very late scratch that the coaching staff said was to “monitor his innings.” He has great deception and a fastball that misses bats in the zone, with a delivery he repeats to eventually get to 55 or better command. We just have to see him pitch again.

    6. Sal Frelick, OF, Boston College

    Frelick looks like a future MLB leadoff hitter, with a strong eye, high contact rates, and above-average speed. He’s shown he can generate enough power from his 5-foot-10 frame to make hard contact, albeit probably without much power. He moved to centerfield this year and has shown enough to be a plus defender there.

    7. Matt McLain, SS, UCLA


    McLain got off to a slow start this year but has hit more consistently and with more power as the season has gone on, making him one of the higher-floor bats in the class, and scouts now see more reason to believe he can stay at shortstop in the majors. He’s out indefinitely with a broken thumb suffered last week, however.

    8. Kahlil Watson, SS, Wake Forest (NC) HS

    Watson’s season only started during the last week of April, but he showed enough last year to end up in the top-10 picks, with above-average tools across the board, strength for hard contact, and enough speed and athleticism to stay at shortstop with some work.

    9. Harry Ford, C, North Cobb HS (Kennesaw, GA)

    Ford is a high school catcher — a very risky demographic in the draft — but scouts talk about his athleticism more than anything else, which is unusual for any catching prospect, especially his plus speed. He’s also very strong, and coupled with his huge bat speed and good balance even through a big stride in the box, he looks like he’ll get to power as well.

    10. Sam Bachman, RHP, Miami (Ohio)

    Bachman has been up to 102 mph as a starter with a plus slider in the low 90s, with some effort but not so much that he couldn’t stick in the rotation. He missed two starts earlier this spring, but the RedHawks’ coaching staff eased him back in after his return and he showed the same electric stuff he had before he was shut down.

    11. Brady House, 3B/SS, Winder-Barrow HS (Winder, GA)

    House has the best exit velocities in the draft class with huge power, and he’s on the younger end of the spectrum for this draft, turning 18 in early June. He’s played shortstop but is going to move to third base in pro ball, while the main question scouts have is where his hit tool is, as he struggled some last summer and fall against better competition but showed well this spring when facing Dylan Lesko, one of the top high school pitching prospects for 2022.
     
  38. Vinegar Strokes

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    Avila will draft Henry Davis and move him to shortstop
     
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  39. hoss2183

    hoss2183 Well-Known Member

    What’s the deal with the lack of whiffs? He’s not allowing hard contact but there are very few successful pitchers with that low of a K rate
     
  40. Vinegar Strokes

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    he doesn’t have any command with his fastball right now
     
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  41. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    If our worst case scenario is Avila and co. can't help themselves from taking Leiter or Rocker, I can live with that.
     
  42. MG2

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    Would have been nice for the writer to actually say what the problems with player development are other than "Manning isn't in the majors yet, and they haven't found people on the waiver wire."
     
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  43. DetroitNole

    DetroitNole Well-Known Member
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    Manning is having a weird start in AAA. All his numbers look good outside the fact that 6 of the 9 hits he has given up in 11 innings have been HR...

    11 ip only allowed 9 hits and 1 bb and struck out 13. But again 6 HR which is led to 8 er
     
  44. Vinegar Strokes

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    He said Avila sucks ass and is the problem
     
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  45. MG2

    MG2 I like to give away joy for free
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    Sure, but you or I could have written that. When a tweet quotes a story saying "Talent evaluators with other teams expressed concerns to CBS Sports about Detroit's player development arm," I kind of expect to read something better than, essentially, "the results say they haven't developed them to this point."
     
  46. Vinegar Strokes

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    agreed. I thought the same thing. However the more national people we get to pile on Avila the better
     
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  47. MG2

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    Robbie Grossman has been a really good add so far. We got him for 2/$10M. It really isn't that hard to find good players in FA and improve your team.
     
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  48. Vinegar Strokes

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    apparently it is, because we have sucked for the past 5 years.
     
  49. MG2

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    It's not hard when you actually try and do something. Grossman is the first multi-year deal we gave out in 5 years.