Detroit Tigers Thread: Whatevs

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Celemo, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    This guy can’t be serious

     
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  2. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Forks Up
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    MILB Pipeline Top 100

    17. Mize
    52. Manning
    78. Perez
     
  3. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    The MLB pipeline guys are the low men on Paredes as a prospect. Also kind of surprised Cameron isn't in there somewhere. I think the Tigers would put both guys ahead of Perez, for sure, if they were ranking them.
     
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  4. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    Yikes. How is Daz not in there???
     
  5. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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  6. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    I really hope they pull him from FSN coverage now. Even though we all know the drill as far as home team announcers being homers, that's still a very bad look and only opens them up for trouble down the road.
     
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  7. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    And they're not doing that, which is stupid.

     
  8. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    Yep. But like you noted above, he was never going to criticize the team, so I guess it doesn’t really matter.
     
  9. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    He might not criticize the team, but what happens when he's in a meeting and he accidentally says something the team doesn't want out there? Or if he does criticize any player in any way (even in a very small way), that opens the team up to something that's not necessary. And that's on top of your audience knowing going in that an actual team employee is analyzing games, which compromises any credibility he has to potentially call a game. This isn't the 1980s anymore when a bunch of teams did that.

    The Tigers gain nothing from Gibson announcing games, especially considering the majority of the fan base seems to hate him in that role. There's only downside here, and if they're not smart enough to understand that now, it's just another sign that this ownership/front office doesn't get it.
     
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  10. Joe Louis

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    I only glanced at BA's but pretty sure Mize was our only prospect, ranked in the 30s ...

    Hoping to see Law come in with 4-5 (guys referenced above plus Daz/Paredes) ...
     
  11. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    Don’t count on it.
     
  12. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Law is among the highest I've seen on Mize, is the highest I've seen on Burrows, and from what I've read is pretty high on Cameron and Paredes. He really likes Willi Castro, too, but don't think he'll put him top 100.

    I doubt Manning makes his top 100, but I could see those four up there.
     
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  13. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    I though he didn’t like Burrows? I bet he has 3 on there and that’s it.
     
  14. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Law has been higher on most than Burrows for a couple years. He's been lower than everyone on Manning for the same period of time.
     
  15. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    I was wrong on Law and Manning. He has him #65 in his rankings today (51-100 released). Cameron was also in there. I'm guessing Law heard from so many scouts about Manning that he decided he had to hedge at least a little, even if he spent half his write-up still taking a shit on Manning based on one ST viewing almost 2 years ago.

    65. Matt Manning, RHP, Detroit Tigers
    Age: 21 (1/28/98)
    Bats: R | Throws: R
    6-foot-6 | 190 pounds
    Top level: Double-A | 2018 rank: Unranked


    Manning looked like a bust in his first spring training after the Tigers took him with the ninth overall pick in 2016, as he lost the strike zone and had to be held back in extended spring training to rework his delivery. That effort paid off in 2018, as Manning looks like a new pitcher, with a better, less mechanical delivery that he can repeat well and that makes great use of his 6-foot-6 frame for huge extension out front, and better pure stuff than he had shown in the previous two summers.

    Manning was a two-sport star in high school who had a basketball scholarship to Loyola Marymount and would hit 98 mph on his fastball but without great life and no feel for a breaking ball. In 2018, he would sit 92 to 95 and get more swings-and-misses on the fastball thanks to that extension, with a tighter 11/5 curveball up to 80 mph that showed above average and a changeup that is above average when he doesn't overthrow it.

    Manning finished in the top 20 in the minors in total strikeouts and ended the year in Double-A, which puts him on track to see the majors in 2020, if not this year. There's still work to do, but the progress he has made in a fairly short time is a testament to his work ethic and athleticism, and there's good reason to believe he'll keep improving and get to a No. 3 starter upside.

    68. Daz Cameron, CF, Detroit Tigers
    Age: 22 (1/15/97)
    Bats: R | Throws: R
    6-foot-2 | 195 pounds
    Top level: Triple-A | 2018 rank: 86


    Cameron continues to make quiet, steady progress, a strange contrast to when he was a bit overhyped as a high school prospect who suffered in comparison to his father, Mike. Cameron is an instinctive center fielder who should end up plus on defense and has enough speed to be an asset on the bases if he works on getting better reads off pitchers. Cameron isn't going to hit for the same sort of home run power his dad did, but he has plenty of gap power and goes the other way very effectively.

    He is willing to run deep counts, so there should be on-base skills along with some high strikeout totals, which held true until his late-August promotion to Triple-A but resumed with a strong showing in the Arizona Fall League. His hands are loose, and he has good barrel control, just lacking much loft in his swing; but there's no mechanical reason to think he'll struggle with contact in the majors. He might only hit 12 to 15 homers, but with plus defense, a strong OBP and 20-odd steals to go with it, which would make him an above-average regular in center.
     
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  16. Joe Louis

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    So who's got a reasonable shot in the top 50? Just Mize?
     
  17. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Mize will be in there. Paredes is in a couple top 50s I've seen, and it wouldn't shock me if he made it on Law's list. Would be surprised if he had Burrows on there, but like I said yesterday Law has been a fan for a while.
     
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  18. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Also, that scouting report on Cameron is really nice to see from him. If that report ends up being correct, that's a 3+ win player in CF along the lines of an Austin Jackson. I'll take that all day.
     
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  19. Joe Louis

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    I guess a Daz/Stewart ... Meadows might he something to look forward to in a few years?

    To go with 3B Paredes, SS Perez and 2B Castro?

    But that's still way down the line :ohdear:
     
  20. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    I'm not very high on Stewart, although I'm hoping he proves me wrong this year. I think he's maybe a platoon DH, which isn't nothing but it's not great.

    Meadows has a long ways to go. Everyone seems to think he's got huge talent and athleticism, but he's going to have to prove he can hit at the higher levels before a lot of people believe in him. He's probably the most talented guy in the system, though.

    Perez is the guy who could make a Paredes-like jump this year, and maybe even higher because he appears to be a legit SS. A good 2019 and he could be a top 50 guy, although he's going to have to hit for a very high average for that to happen.

    There's a depth of actual position prospects that hasn't existed with the Tigers in well over a decade, but there aren't many sure things. That's why they really need the likes of Cameron, Rogers and Paredes to hit because they're closer to sure things and make the upside of a Perez or Meadows mean more.
     
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  21. DeToxRox

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  22. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Law has Mize #15. No one else made it. Kind of surprised on Paredes. My guess is he'll say he'll insinuate he's lazy and out of shape, because that's the biggest knock out there about him.

    15. Casey Mize, RHP, Detroit Tigers
    Age: 22 (5/1/1997)
    Bats: R | Throws: R
    6-foot-3 | 220 pounds
    Top level: High-A | 2018 rank: Ineligible


    Mize was the No. 1 overall pick in the 2018 draft and the consensus top talent, a major-league-ready starter who had the best pitch in the college ranks last year in his splitter but also showed a full arsenal of stuff. Mize works with low-90s velocity and can reach back for 95-96 mph, with the splitter as the out pitch, and he has shown a plus slider/cutter at 87-89 mph and a slower slider in the low 80s. Mize was utterly dominant for Auburn last spring -- he should have won the Golden Spikes Award, but voters saw something shiny in the corner and screwed it up -- with 156 strikeouts in 114⅔ innings, averaging just under one walk (16 total) per start (17).

    The Tigers chose to be very cautious with Mize, giving him just five pro appearances, four with High-A Lakeland, before shutting him down to preserve his arm. If he stays healthy, he could be an ace, with his command and control, as well as two plus off-speed weapons. Although the Tigers don't need him now, he could pitch in some role in the majors in 2019 if an opportunity arises.
     
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  23. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Law ranks our system 18th. That seems low to me, but the difference between #18 and #11 is probably pretty small.

    18. Detroit Tigers
    2018 rank: 20


    Getting better but not there yet, the Tigers have been hurt a bit more than most rebuilding teams by the lack of tradable assets (speaking of contracts rather than just players) on the major league club, although Nick Castellanos and a healthy Michael Fulmer could help them make another leap. They picked first last year and landed the best player in the draft class, Casey Mize, but then chose to put most of their remaining bonus pool in two high-risk prep hitters with question marks, which could work out spectacularly but carries a high probability of zero return.
     
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  24. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Granderson just signed a minor league deal with the Marlins, and I don't understand why we wouldn't have been interested. At the very least, we could have used him as a part time DH or bench bat.
     
  25. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Boom... head shot.
    Donor TMB OG

    We could probably use him, but who would you push off the 40 man for him right now? Even under the assumption that you'll have guys start the season on the DL? We're not trying to win this year.
     
  26. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Off the bat...

    Brandon Dixon IF
    Ronny Rodriguez IF
    Kaleb Cowart IF/P
    Jose Fernandez LHP
    Sandy Baez RHP

    Could make the argument for at least 3-5 more.
     
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  27. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    I can name like 15 guys we can cut from the 40. Maybe more
     
  28. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    I bet you can name 40
     
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  29. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    Probably 37. Franklin Perez, Candelario, and Jacoby are okay for now.
     
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  30. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Boom... head shot.
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    If the goal is to win more games in 2019, sure, I'd cut half the 40 man. But if the goal is to win more games in 2022?
     
  31. ~ taylor ~

    ~ taylor ~ Boom... head shot.
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    And yes I realize that most of those dickheads aren't going to help us win games ever aside from sucking for a higher draft pick.
     
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  32. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    Keith Law's prospect write-up from yesterday...

    The Tigers' rebuild is making steady if slow progress, although the lack of major trade pieces on the big-league roster hasn't helped, and they haven't really developed a significant prospect from international free agency in many years.

    [​IMG]1. Casey Mize, RHP (ranked No. 15)
    2. Matt Manning, RHP (ranked No. 65)
    3. Daz Cameron, OF (ranked No. 68)
    4. Franklin Perez, RHP
    5. Beau Burrows, RHP
    6. Willi Castro, SS
    7. Christin Stewart, OF
    8. Isaac Paredes, SS
    9. Parker Meadows, OF
    10. Kyle Funkhouser, RHP

    Non-top-100 prospects

    Franklin Perez was part of the Justin Verlander trade, but missed most of 2018 with injuries, making seven starts in June and July and throwing 19 innings before he was shut down with shoulder inflammation. He has mid-rotation-starter upside if healthy, but shoulder injuries are way more concerning than elbow injuries, and he wasn't a finished product before the injury.

    Beau Burrows has been very consistent for the last three years, working with an above-average fastball that sinks but that hitters still put in the air more than on the ground, an inconsistent curveball that will show plus, a fringy changeup and now a cutter/slider that he uses occasionally. It's all about a half-grade away from making him a solid league-average starter, including his command and control. He misses bats, just not enough, walks a few too many guys and gives up a few more line drives and homers than you'd like, but nothing is really so bad that you think he can't figure it out and stay a starter. I do really like how he pitches, both in terms of his plan and his demeanor on the field.

    Willi Castro, part of the trade for Leonys Martin, is a high-IQ player from a baseball family who was having a disappointing year until he got to the Detroit organization, at which point he went on a tear for Double-A Erie and ended up with a week in Toledo as his reward. He can stay at short and be at least solid-average, with really soft hands and good reads. His swing and approach at the plate are sound, but he has always needed to get stronger. He's another guy I've liked for less tangible reasons, someone I think will hit enough to become a soft regular, if not more.

    Christin Stewart will probably be Detroit's left fielder this year and should hit 20-plus homers with some walks and bad defense, offering enough overall value to be the Tigers' regular there for the next three years. Isaac Paredes can really hit and probably will settle in at third base, although he has an older body for a 20-year-old and I don't think he has a ton of growth remaining. He also has everyday regular upside. The Tigers effectively pinned their entire draft on Mize and Parker Meadows, for whom they went well over slot; the younger brother of Tampa Bay outfielder Austin Meadows doesn't have the same power potential but is looser and more athletic. He also has a big hitch in his swing that had many people questioning his future hit tool. He's a certain center fielder, and missed time this summer with a hamstring injury.

    Kyle Funkhouser still shows above-average or better stuff but doesn't miss enough bats, and he lost time last year to a fractured foot. He'll turn 25 in March and should be ready to compete for a major league job by now, although I don't think his command or control are at that level yet.

    Logan Shore (11), who came over from Oakland as the player to be named for Mike Fiers, is a plus-command guy with an average fastball and plus changeup, a potential fourth starter or maybe more if he stays healthy -- he has battled injuries the last two years, including oblique strains. Shortstop Sergio Alcantara (12) is the best prospect the Tigers received in the J.D. Martinez deal, which isn't saying a whole lot, but he can play the heck out of short, has a cannon of an arm and has a good swing. He just has no strength to drive the ball, with 22 extra-base hits in nearly 500 PA last year. Derek Hill (13) began last year with a different batting stance and it didn't work, and by the time he started to restore his old stance, it was too late in the year to matter. He's still a premium defender in center and plus runner who has good instincts on all sides, but he hasn't hit, and when he does hit, he doesn't do damage. He'll play at 23 this year, young enough to still gain strength and stick with a swing, but time is starting to run out for the former first-rounder.

    Jake Rogers (14) didn't hit at all last year -- .219/.305/.412 in Erie, then .167/.231/.271 in the hitter-friendly Arizona Fall League -- and doesn't really project to hit other than some mistake power. He can catch, though, well enough that he might play a long time in the majors as a backup or as a bad team's starter who might flip 15 homers with an OBP well under .300.

    Right-hander Alex Faedo (15) was Detroit's first-round pick in 2017, but his full-season debut was disappointing. Every scout I asked who saw him wrote him up as a reliever. Faedo pitches at 90-92 and shows an above-average to plus slider, but he was extremely homer-prone in Double-A because his fastball is ordinary; he gave up 15 homers in 60 innings, 12 of them to right-handed batters.

    Shortstop Wenceel Perez (16) tore up the Gulf Coast League as an 18-year-old and ended up with two promotions, to the short-season NY-Penn League and later the full-season Midwest League, where he continued to put the ball in play and showed above-average speed. He's a switch-hitter with quick hands and good barrel control. I don't think he's going to be very patient now, but he's not a hacker, just someone who can put a lot of pitches in play and will have to learn which pitches to take over time.

    Daniel Woodrow (17) is yet another Tigers prospect who has to get stronger, but he can do some things even now to help a club -- he's a 65 runner, takes solid at-bats and has good bat control, with the speed to play all over the outfield. If he had average power, he'd be a regular.

    The Tigers claimed Dustin Peterson (18) on waivers in September, and the 24-year-old could end up spending a chunk of 2019 in Detroit. He has always had a good feel to hit, although his career has included a lot of empty batting averages. He rarely strikes out, doesn't walk and has never hit more than 12 homers in a season. He can play left or right, better in left but with the arm for both. Zach Houston (19) has some funk in his delivery, giving him deception for his fastball to play up. He missed a ton of bats between Double- and Triple-A last year and positioned himself for a major league relief job this year. Gregory Soto (20) seems to have been on these lists forever, and he regressed in 2018, working with average velocity, walking 70 guys in 113 innings, with only his curveball standing out as an above-average pitch. I think it's past time for him to go to the bullpen.

    Others of note: Brock Deatherage, beyond having a name that sounds like a board game I'd play, was one of the better senior signs in this year's draft class, with hand strength that produced some hard contact and doubles power. He's a corner outfielder and probably just a bench piece, but I wouldn't be surprised if he tore up A-ball this year. ... Dawel Lugo, also part of the Martinez trade, reached the majors last year and might get a few years as a utility infielder, but he's not a very good defender and walks once every super blood wolf moon. ... Third-rounder Kody Clemens, son of Roger and brother of Kacy, didn't hit well for two years at Texas, then suddenly went off this last spring, showing huge power and more patience. His pro debut was solid and he's settled in at second base, but let's see if he can do it for more than one calendar year.

    2019 impact: Stewart should be their everyday left fielder. Peterson could make the club as a corner utility guy. Houston should make the team in the bullpen. Funkhouser and Burrows are close enough that either might get a few starts. Cameron should be there by year-end and Manning could do the same given how quickly he improved last season.

    Sleeper: Perez, who might end up at second rather than short but whose bat is really promising in a system that has a lot of guys who have good swings but lack present strength.

    The fallen: I've ranked Hill highly here and there because he can play center, runs plus and has a good swing, but at some point, a player just has to perform, and he hasn't done so, with injuries no longer an adequate explanation for his struggles.
     
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  33. MG2

    MG2 No judgement in brainstorming
    Donor

    2019 will be remembered as the year of Victor Reyes. Get ready to suck his dick, Vinegar Strokes

     
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  34. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    Vin has been sucking more dicks than expected in 2019. This one would kill him though ...
     
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  35. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Forks Up
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  36. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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  37. bwi2

    bwi2 Not affiliated with BWI
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    Cool story time:

    My dad’s best friend - 68 year old guy - is a huge Tigers fan. Loves gambling too, but had never been to Vegas. Last week he finally made it out to Vegas, only to have a heart attack in the airport two minutes after getting off the plane. He’s doing fine now; my dad visited him in the hospital, and got his $20 bet on the Tigers in at 500:1. So go Tigers.
     
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  38. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    Waste of money.
     
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  39. bwi2

    bwi2 Not affiliated with BWI
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    The guy at the window needed supervisor approval to take the bet because the odds were so high.

    Still a better bet than the $20 he threw on the Lions at the same time.
     
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  40. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    It’s $20.
     
  41. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    Okay?
     
  42. Vinegar Strokes

    Vinegar Strokes Suck our Dicks. Fire Everybody
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    The responses to this are great.



     
  43. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    To be fair, he doesn’t technically say he will be good. Just that he will play right field
     
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  44. Vinegar Strokes

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    He said they scored a coup though? Is that good?
     
  45. Tug

    Tug Well-Known Member
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    Depends. I’m hoping to tank so I’m ok with it if he’s terrible
     
  46. Vinegar Strokes

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    They don’t have to tank. As long as Avila is in charge, the team will suck.
     
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  47. Lipp

    Lipp Spartan Dawg
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    Better than a sedan.
     
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  48. smeegsgreen

    smeegsgreen Big fan of Koalas
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    The guy who responded to the beat writer blocked me a couple years back for reason unknown
     
  49. Vinegar Strokes

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  50. Constant

    Constant Meh
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    His name triggers me.
     
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