interesting pics in history

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Joe_Pesci, May 12, 2010.

  1. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    My bad. It was a two hour conversation I tried to condense into two sentences. I am nothing if not awkward.
     
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  2. bwhit21

    bwhit21 Well-Known Member
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    Re: the bold part - This was more due to the threat of the Soviets than the Chinese. Soviets crushing the Kwantung Army played a big role in their surrender too.

    Agree with the rest.
     
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  3. JonathanCoachman

    JonathanCoachman The Coach
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    It’s hard to imagine the Pacific Campaign being feasible without the help of Australia. The logistics of waging war without a reasonably secure base of operations to start out with would have limited The US to kamikaze tactics.
     
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  4. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau
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    If Hitler had chosen to stay the fuck out of Russia, Russia likely would have attacked Germany at the first opportunity (early 1942). Stalin spent much of early 1941 trying to make sure that the German attack would not come that year. Historians, especially German ones, have trouble admitting this because it sounds like justifying or defending Hitler, but attacking the USSR as early as possible was always the right play
     
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  5. WhiskeyDelta

    WhiskeyDelta Formerly MK3rds
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    It's really Italy's fault; they got bogged down in Greece and needed the Germans to bail them out, which delayed the invasion of the Soviet Union. There's a narrow window to invade Russia every year between "too fucking muddy" and "too fucking cold" and they missed the window.

    Plus if they'd treated the Ukrainians with a modicum of civility they likely would have happily helped fight the Russians, but that's not really in the nazi wheelhouse.
     
  6. enjj

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    War with the Soviets was always going to happen. The Germans only chance was to secure Great Britain first, protecting themselves from the west. Having to fight on two fronts was never going to end well for them.
     
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  7. CoastalOrange

    CoastalOrange Well-Known Member
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    Just want to say that I've enjoyed this chat abt WW2. I feel like I've learned a bit more than the basics I previously knew. Appreciate it, fellas.

    And FYI, this post is 100% sincere.
     
  8. TC

    TC It’s a lawless nation for the flamingo
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    Ok now tell us why Napoleon invading Russia was really the right move
     
  9. JonathanCoachman

    JonathanCoachman The Coach
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    Because his subjects were starting to whisper among themselves that maybe his Egypt Campaign was actually a horrendous failure and perhaps it wasn’t a good idea to allow a guy that LARPS around like he is Alexander The Great to be emperor. Time was of the essence.
     
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  10. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    you should read rise and fall of the third reich. its a massive book but very interesting and informative
     
  11. RockHardJawn39

    RockHardJawn39 StEvIS_iN_cBuS/LandlordBob stalks me
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    I think it took me 4 years to read that book. Took a lot of breaks and read other books at the same time. It's a lot to process.
     
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  12. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    i have had it for 5 years. finally started at the beginning of covid. got to right after the polish invasion and fell off. gotta get back on that horse
     
  13. RockHardJawn39

    RockHardJawn39 StEvIS_iN_cBuS/LandlordBob stalks me
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    You have to take breaks. Only way to get through it.
     
  14. TC

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    Knocked it out in an afternoon by the pool
     
  15. CoastalOrange

    CoastalOrange Well-Known Member
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    I really, really hate this about myself but I really, really hate reading. It is about 80-90% of my average work day so when I am not working, I hate it. It is incredibly frustrating because I have a pile of great books that I want to read but as soon as I pick them up, I bail.
     
  16. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    its ok if you can’t read you don’t have to explain it to us
     
  17. TC

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    You're a lawyer now right? What'd you major in undergrad
     
  18. El Tiburon

    El Tiburon Well-Known Member
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    I love to read, but because my day consists of reading and processing dense legal material I can sympathize with the desire to avoid reading when I’m off the clock. That being said, I still try to work in some reading before bed or when I’m on the shitter because it’s important. Certainly, very dense historical books are more of a slog.
     
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  19. TC

    TC It’s a lawless nation for the flamingo
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    I always loved reading growing up. Got away from reading for fun in college because you have to read the assigned stuff. I remember "rediscovering" reading after college and being like oh yeah, I love this shit
     
  20. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    Reading is one of my favorite things, but I am the same after working. Luckily, I have a 40 minute drive each way most days. Audible is extremely useful for that. Can really digest a ton of information in that time each day. It is not the same as actually reading, but you are getting the information either way.
     
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  21. TC

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    My move for reading after work -- get in chair with snack and cup of coffee. Read for 30-60 min, whatever feels good. Doing it same time and same place helps you focus
     
  22. Lawnole23

    Lawnole23 FSU Seminoles 2020 National Champions
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    I read all day but still love a good story. I usually read fiction (sci-fi/fantasy) type stuff to completely take myself out of my normal life for a few hours. I'll spend 2-3 weeks straight reading in all my free time then not read a book for a month then read another one.
     
  23. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau
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    It was actually the coup in Belgrade in late March. Stalin supported it, told the new govt. that he was there for them, so it emboldened them and got them embroiled in a German invasion. German forces were already being assembled for the drive east, and some were diverted to the drive south. Stalin thought that the Germans and British would get caught up fighting each other, but then the Brits pulled out of Greece pretty quickly. It's telling that the next day after finding out that the Brits were turning tail and running Stalin did a complete 180 on the issue of a non-aggression pact with the Japanese, waking their delegation in the middle of the night to negotiate a treaty the day before they were supposed to leave.

    Barbarossa was scheduled originally for May 1 instead of June 22, but the Yugoslavia operation pushed it back (Stalin thought it was enough to dissuade the Germans, and was surprised when they attacked so late, to the point of a probable nervous breakdown). It's not clear that the extra weeks would have changed the ultimate outcome, since even though the Germans might have taken Moscow, the USSR is a big country and the Sovs had plans to pull back eastward and continue the fight. Moscow was an exceedingly important transport and economic hub, though, and politically important. But the Sovs knew the Japanese were planning on striking south and not north again like they had in early 1939, so they still could have brought in their reinforcements from the Amur/Manchurian frontier.

    Even given Stalin's "socialism in one country" push in the 1930s that resulted from their inability to foment revolution elsewhere in Europe, Soviet foreign and military policy was inherently expansionist and aggressive. Krasnaya Zvezda routinely talked about Soviet soldiers washing their boots in the harbor of Cherbourg, an allusion to liberating Europe. They considered Hitler the Icebreaker, one who starts the war, but they wanted to make sure to enter the war last, fresher than the existing combatants, and determine the nature of the future peace wholly on their terms. Given the Sovs' ultimate aims (of which the Germans were well aware), attacking them wasn't just the right move but the only move.

    On the other side of the world, FDR had no idea that the Japanese already planned to strike south against British, Dutch, and American interests instead of north against the USSR again. He also understood the importance of Soviet survival in the geopolitical struggle against Nazism and Japanese militarism. In this light, the oil embargo against Japan can be seen primarily as an attempt to protect the USSR from a two-front war, and not some clumsy attempt to goad the Japanese into attacking us.

    1914, 1941, and 1983 were the most interesting years of the last century
     
  24. The Banks

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    Play out how it would’ve been different for Germany if they had hit that weather window perfectly.
     
  25. chet fire

    chet fire Man in Members Only jacket

    Would like to see a photograph of when they told Hirohito about Nagasaki and then added, "And oh, by the way, Stalin's in Manchukuo now."
     
  26. CoastalOrange

    CoastalOrange Well-Known Member
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    Poli Sci. One of the standard undergrad majors for hopeful law students, though I wish I would have majored in something else. Not that I didn't enjoy Poli Sci, but I think something more business or finance related would have been a bit more beneficial.

    This is it for me. I slog through those items all day long, so when I get a few minutes at the end of the day, it is damn near impossible to grab something else to read.
     
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  27. TC

    TC It’s a lawless nation for the flamingo
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    Makes sense. I was gonna call you out if it was English.

    I read at lot at work, off a screen though. I certainly don't want any more screen reading time at home. Reading a printed page feels good to the eyes after so many screens
     
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  28. PeterGriffin

    PeterGriffin Iced and/or sweet tea is for dirty rednecks.
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  29. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
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    The actual Concordia thread is archived, so I couldn't post this there, but this video was just posted on YouTube and is fantastic.

     
  30. xec

    xec Well-Known Member
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    Fighting in the Pacific was brutal, but anytime anyone brings up that campaign, I always think of the Japanese army eaten alive by crocodiles on Ramree Island.
    https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016...-the-battle-of-ramree-island-of-world-war-ii/
     
    #6380 xec, Feb 18, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  31. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    I have it on audible. About a 40 hour affair. But, really in depth and much more than the surface level bullshit of most history books.
     
  32. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    Because I can't like this more than once, would you be comfortable elaborating? My wife saw a "survivor" at the holocaust museum in DC once. It was a bastardized version of survivor basically meaning a non jew that lived in Belgium during WW2. We openly have pursued this subject and I wish that my grandmother that died last year at 93 was more informed. However, she was a bastion of information about the US military industrial machine. She spent her 20s making artillery shells for the army. I will try to attach the one I have. It is technically worthless, but I value it as much as anything in my home.



    This was made in Rockwood Alabama. They had an artillery factory that was basically in a cave to protect it. My grandfather was the youngest male in his family and had a health issue that prevented him from serving in WW2 (although being born in 1926 was probably close to enough based on age). One of his brother died from TB that he got in the war (but also drank quite a lot because he was haunted by WW2). I could choke young, dumbass hide and seek champ for not begging him for information before he died when I was 18, but he could barely talk about it without being emotional. He paid a huge debt from a family perspective without having to serve.
     

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  33. yaywaffles

    yaywaffles suck my flaps you piece of shit
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    Richard Evans's trilogy is worth reading as well and a bit more current than Shirer (not to say Shirer isn't worth reading also)
     
  34. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Ok that thumbnail immediately had my brain headed somewhere else
     
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  35. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
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    More historic blizzard stuff, this is from the Thanksgiving Blizzard of 1950, which hit over the weekend.

    My maternal grandparents were married the Saturday of the blizzard, but never made it out of Steubenville Ohio, which got 44 inches of snow (picture of the cars below). The sledding kids are a shot from Pittsburgh.

    231EBD82-5735-4D8C-8D3B-F802549D8085.jpeg

    [​IMG]
     
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  36. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau
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    12/26/85 I took a train from Vienna to Budapest and shared a compartment with a woman named Carlotta. She hadn't looked that pleased when we Americans invaded her otherwise empty compartment, but she kept quiet. My mother and aunt made a few slightly disparaging remarks about having to sit with such a dour old woman, which I thought was ill-advised since I'd glimpsed her American passport among her things. Mother finally offers her a cookie in German to break the ice, and she says "Perhaps I should have warned you, I speak perfect English." Turned into a pleasant conversation and subsequent history lesson because she'd been a Holocaust survivor before emigrating to the US. Pulled back her sleeve to show the number tattoo on her forearm. Broke down talking to us about being a young woman in the camps, the constant fear and death all around her, friends and family lost, trying to make some sort of life afterward. It was a lot for teenager AptosDuck to take in, but at the very least I took from this encounter that one should always assume that strangers can understand you

    (Mother was born in Vienna in 1941 and lived there as a child, being bombed by Americans and British. Grandfather was conscripted into the Wehrmacht, discharged after helping occupy France due to bleeding ulcers. Neighbor doctor purposely made him sick every time he had to go back to see if he was fit enough for duty, probably saved his life. Still don't know how he wasn't shot when the Soviets took and occupied Vienna. Grandmother was in hospital post-childbirth when Sovs arrived, was saved by nurses from being gangraped by Soviet soldiers. Family emigrated in 1948 after starving through a particularly bad winter when they relied on Soviet food supplies - for years afterwards my mother referred to peas as "Stalin Pearls")
     
  37. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    Holy shit what an experience. Budapest and Vienna are both nice. Hard to believe the absolute differences in architecture styles compared to the US. This post made me more envious than anything not involving nudity ever has on this board.
     
  38. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    Anything is a dildo if you are brave enough- Abraham Lincoln.
     
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  39. THE TRUTH

    THE TRUTH Well-Known Member
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    My family member fought here with the VMF-121 bombing anti-aircraft sites. He was shot down and saved on the third and final attempt from the water outside of Battery Hill. Considered by many to be the bloodiest battle for the Marines in World War II.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Peleliu

    This is some of his story.

    Report from pilot who saved him - https://legacy.bentprop.org/walter_brown/MamerReport-1945.pdf

    Rescue report from military - https://legacy.bentprop.org/walter_brown/brownie_correspondent_dispatch.pdf

    Story of finding wreckage - https://legacy.bentprop.org/sap/sap14.php
     
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  40. Redav

    Redav My favorite meat is hotdog
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    A Japanese lieutenant with twenty-six 2nd Infantry soldiers and eight 45th Guard Force sailors held out in the caves in Peleliu until April 22, 1947, and surrendered after a Japanese admiral convinced them the war was over.

    Lol holy shit
     
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  41. Artoo

    Artoo 1312
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    Hiroo Onada held out in Guam (or some other island) until the 70s.

    Related Dollop: https://allthingscomedy.com/podcasts/335---need-a-hiroo---reverse-dollop
     
    #6391 Artoo, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  42. TC

    TC It’s a lawless nation for the flamingo
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  43. Kirk Fogg

    Kirk Fogg "Tell them what they've won Olmec!"
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  44. Hide&SeekChamp

    Hide&SeekChamp Well-Known Member
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    What a read. Wish I was a little more familiar with the terminology to understand completely, but I understood enough to be amazed. In the middle of that type of war, they were not leaving that man behind.

    I have always wanted to write or read a book about the amazing what ifs of war. If GHW Bush does not luckily get rescued after being shot down, it completely changes no less than 12 years of presidency if not more. That was in Fly Boys and there are countless stories that are similar. It would be like a choose your adventure history book full of speculation.
     
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  45. THE TRUTH

    THE TRUTH Well-Known Member
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    I play that same game. What if FDR had not died? Do we still use the atomic bomb when we do?

    What if Hitler breaches Stalingrad?

    Amazing stuff.

    I guess it’s hard to remove his politics for some but Newt Gingrich has a Facebook page that talks about alternative outcomes in history and it’s fascinating with some of the events that they discuss.
     
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  46. PeterGriffin

    PeterGriffin Iced and/or sweet tea is for dirty rednecks.
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    How incredible would it be if Newt was doing like a Hitler suicide “what if” reenactment and he blew his own brains out? Hell yeah.
     
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  47. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau
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    Like Rush Limbaugh's death it would be great but still 30 years too late
     
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  48. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
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    David Hasselhoff “Looking for Freedom” concert at the Berlin Wall, December 31, 1989.

    upload_2021-3-3_21-9-33.jpeg
     
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