If we're assuming Michigan paid for both of those players, isn't it reasonable to also assume that other schools were willing to pay similar bags of cash for those players, and that perhaps other things also came into play?
You’re also cherry picking. You posted this quote from that UM fanboy: “Michigan almost never wins a head-to-head battle for a prospect against Ohio State or top SEC programs unless the player has expressed an unusual level of interest in academics or comes from a relatively well-to-do family.” NST countered it with Solomon and Gary (and Peppers). There are others as well. The use of “almost never” there is completely disingenuous.
He's like older than dinosaurs. He's a good guy, I know him personally so I feel like I can make this joke.
What am I cherry picking? If you're going to hold that post against me, at least read what I said: In the last three classes (2018-20), UM has signed or gotten commits from 4 top 100 players in the 247 composite. That's not winning very many battles against the elite programs across the country, IMO. I don't even know what this argument is about anymore. Reading isn't this difficult.
There’s no “argument.” We can read about as well as you can engage in a conversation without coming off as a condescending prick.
Did the academic credentials of UM deteriorate over that time period such that mothers can no longer be convinced to send their kids there?
Idiot Michigan fans elsewhere online claim you guys don’t win big because of the integrity of Michigan. They cite that you guys don’t beat “cheater” programs like OSU, Georgia, Alabama, etc for recruits as justification. You guys do in fact beat these schools for recruits occasionally. You’d probably beat them for recruits more often if you won as much as they do/made the playoffs. If you’re really deluded enough to believe that Harbaugh is a good guy who does things the right way, and the school that pays him $9 million per year isn’t all in on football, you’re just as bad as your fellow fans.
What does any of this have to do with anything I've written here? You're a Clemson fan. Does Clemson not fly around the country to recruit players? Do they not visit with players and their families/coaches? Do they not host them on trips? Or do they just sit there in the office, wait to find out how much it's going to cost, and then pay more than anyone else? You're sitting here arguing against a point I made that Michigan built a relationship with the mothers of two recruits that proved to be helpful in eventually landing those players, like that just doesn't happen anywhere else. And somehow I'm the weird one talking crazy.
You’re being oddly specific when we’re talking big picture here. We are not addressing your specific comments, but you are defending them as if we are. HTH.
Explain this to me like I'm not a condescending prick, because I don't understand what you're suggesting here.
What does Clemson have to do with the discussion? Have our fans created some bizarre narrative to explain why our $9 million dollar coach can’t beat Ohio State? Clemson is for some kids. It’s not for others. Sometimes we get outrecruited. Sometimes another school cheats and steals a kid away with bags of cash. Ole Miss with Nkemdiche for example. I think it’s probably the same way everywhere. Even at places like Ohio State, Georgia, Alabama, etc
We are addressing the mindset of the majority of Michigan fans excusing their failures by saying that they are only losing to the big power teams because they have higher standards for their players. We are saying that they play by the same set of rules as most of the other top programs (and can provide examples), but they are just doing a worse job at it. I don’t understand why this is difficult for you to follow. Perhaps you are the one with reading comprehension issues?
It's risky posting this type of thing in this thread. Anything other than is a risky proposition. But since I have the highest of risk tolerances, here are some other random points of clarification: Harbaugh doesn't make $9,000,000 per year Michigan's former AD publicly accused other schools of paying Rashan Gary during his recruitment. That'd be an awfully dumb statement for someone in his position to make if Michigan had also paid him, as it'd be much better to just keep quiet about everyone's dirty little secrets. But maybe he's a really dumb guy.
You weren't exactly going against Stanford and ND for Gary. Prospects and their families can say all sorts of shit, but when the other OV's are Clemson, Auburn, Ole Miss, and USC academics probably aren't as important as they say.
Because my dad went on a Dave Petersen-esque rant about excessive celebrations and “playing the right way” tonight and it reminded me of how ridiculous “Dave Petersen” is.
Bacon says Gary turned down 300k to play at Michigan. I know you love Michigan, but do you really believe that to be true?
Fulmer ratted out Bama for buying Albert Means. It was later shown in court that UT and many other schools had offered him money as well. Bama just gave the biggest bag.
My pops was the provost of academic affairs at Michigan for a long time. The head of admissions reported to him. We turned down a lot of recruits due to academics or parents wanting extra benefits over the years.
No, I doubt he was legitimately offered 300k. Probably much less than that. I also don't think he wanted to go to Michigan but his mom made him. Same with Aubrey Soloman, who definitely never wanted to be at Michigan.
I already told you what I think. I don't think Michigan's AD would be publicly making those types of statements if Michigan was paying the guy. That'd be enormously stupid. He might be be stupid though. I conceded that possibility. I have zero way of knowing what incentives he was offered by other schools. I only know that Michigan's AD claimed he was. I have zero clue whether it was 100K or 10K or anything else.
You've long been in the people whose opinions are completely meaningless category, so that suits me fine.